Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[ReHabs]

he has no more excuses than they do.

He has a bum knee in a knee brace injured at the start of the season and the other three were fit for contact to start the pre-season. Lumping Laine, who is outproducing all them despite his injury, with the Terrible Trio is bozo stuff. Couldn't be simpler.

I haven't denied a thing I have previously said. You keep trying these "moves" to "win" the argument I'm not sure why you think it has any impact. Stick to the discussion, leave the other stuff aside.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

MSL needs to play Laine more than just a PP role and throw him out there more. When he first got back from injury he seemed to have more of a role, now its just light duty shifts and PP. Mentally probably not good for a high profile guy. I wonder if he should just throw him out there and whatever happens, happens..... the rest of the way. If you want to be a leader, go lead. If you want to be part of the solution, do that. But if you can't be a guy who plays 22 min a night and is reliable, Its best to find out this season as we are sliding down the standings.

The issue is that he was killing the 2nd line just as Dach was doing earlier in the year. We just can't afford to have that the rest of the way.

Play him in the bottom six for now. Let him find his timing and skating. Take the pressure off and tell him to treat it like a physio stint. Next year he can come back on the 2nd. By then we'll have more depth coming in.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He has a bum knee in a knee brace injured at the start of the season and the other three were fit for contact to start the pre-season. Lumping Laine, who is outproducing all them despite his injury, with the Terrible Trio is bozo stuff. Couldn't be simpler.

I haven't denied a thing I have previously said. You keep trying these "moves" to "win" the argument I'm not sure why you think it has any impact. Stick to the discussion, leave the other stuff aside.

He hasn't outproduced anyone at 5 on 5.

He's taken his one timers from the slot on the PP and put up a great streak. Now teams seemed to have figured it out. He needs to get skating a little more out there. He's just standing there... teams will adjust when you have success. He needs to make some changes because he's gotten stale.'

The talent is there. His shot is all world. We need to exert patience and let him find his game. No contract talks until we see what he can do next season.

 

[Habs]

The issue is that he was killing the 2nd line just as Dach was doing earlier in the year. We just can't afford to have that the rest of the way.

Play him in the bottom six for now. Let him find his timing and skating. Take the pressure off and tell him to treat it like a physio stint. Next year he can come back on the 2nd. By then we'll have more depth coming in.

Well we don't hold Slaf to the same standards, so why Laine? Who cares about the rest of the way, we are going to finish bottom 6, let these guys figure it out with lots of ice time and situations. Dvorak and Armia never get sat, they are god awful for 10 games at a time. Why are we calling out one guy in this dumpster fire?

 

[OneSharpMarble]

He has a bum knee in a knee brace injured at the start of the season and the other three were fit for contact to start the pre-season. Lumping Laine, who is outproducing all them despite his injury, with the Terrible Trio is bozo stuff. Couldn't be simpler.

I haven't denied a thing I have previously said. You keep trying these "moves" to "win" the argument I'm not sure why you think it has any impact. Stick to the discussion, leave the other stuff aside.

All players deal with injury and conditioning but only Laine gets a free pass in your eyes I guess. He isn't out producing them in anything but pp goals and the honey pot has dried up, is that because of his injury too?

Oh please, you keep bringing up the picks we gave up like it has some influence on the argument. Crying about picks like Newhook came to your house and pried it out of your fingers. Of course you deny it though.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well we don't hold Slaf to the same standards, so why Laine?

A few things here.

1. This team doesn't have much depth right now. We're just not there yet. We were about to add in Joshua Roy and he got hurt. Laine's been hurt. Dach's been hurt... So there's not a whole lot of alternatives for us.

2. Slaf's a work in progress. It's not unusual for a young player to take a step back in development. You hope it doesn't happen but that's the way it goes most of the time. He's not killing the line the way Laine was. And he's been somewhat productive 5 on 5. From mid Dec to end of January he was producing really well. He's been cold in Feburary. For the year he's been underwhelming. But nowhere near the same thing as Laine. Laine was giving pucks away and looks a lot like Dach did to start the year. It's a completely different situation.

Who cares about the rest of the way, we are going to finish bottom 6, let these guys figure it out with lots of ice time and situations. Dvorak and Armia never get sat, they are god awful for 10 games at a time. Why are we calling out one guy in this dumpster fire?

Development year. You want to let your guys progress as much as possible. Dach's finally worked his way out of the slump. Newhook has begun producing a bit. Let them have a strong finish. It doesn't make sense to have Laine kill plays. Give that ice to somebody else. Laine can work on things on the lower lines.

Back when Dach was struggling we cut his ice in favour of Evans. It's no different here. Just take the pressure off. Let him finish the year - keep him on number one PP. Then next year we can re-evaluate.

 

[ReHabs]

All players deal with injury and conditioning but only Laine gets a free pass in your eyes I guess. He isn't out producing them in anything but pp goals and the honey pot has dried up, is that because of his injury too?

So you're back to not acknowledging his injury. Funny how that works.

Oh please, you keep bringing up the picks we gave up like it has some influence on the argument. Crying about picks like Newhook came to your house and pried it out of your fingers. Of course you deny it though.

I explained my position with as simple terms as I possibly could -- you don't understand it, that's fine with me.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

So you're back to not acknowledging his injury. Funny how that works.

If he's injured he shouldn't be playing, if not he is free to be criticised like every other player getting criticised. Being injured is not a excuse for bringing literally nothing to a line other than dead weight. MSL has said as much by demoting him.

I explained my position with as simple terms as I possibly could -- you don't understand it, that's fine with me.

There's no nuance to understand, you got called out on a bad take and run around in circles claiming someone doesn't understand.

 

[Habs]

A few things here.

1. This team doesn't have much depth right now. We're just not there yet. We were about to add in Joshua Roy and he got hurt. Laine's been hurt. Dach's been hurt... So there's not a whole lot of alternatives for us.

2. Slaf's a work in progress. It's not unusual for a young player to take a step back in development. You hope it doesn't happen but that's the way it goes most of the time. He's not killing the line the way Laine was. And he's been somewhat productive 5 on 5. From mid Dec to end of January he was producing really well. He's been cold in Feburary. For the year he's been underwhelming. But nowhere near the same thing as Laine. Laine was giving pucks away and looks a lot like Dach did to start the year. It's a completely different situation.

Development year. You want to let your guys progress as much as possible. Dach's finally worked his way out of the slump. Newhook has begun producing a bit. Let them have a strong finish. It doesn't make sense to have Laine kill plays. Give that ice to somebody else. Laine can work on things on the lower lines.

Back when Dach was struggling we cut his ice in favour of Evans. It's no different here. Just take the pressure off. Let him finish the year - keep him on number one PP. Then next year we can re-evaluate.

I don't want a 8 million dollar Laine rotting on the bottom lines, they gotta bust him out. I don't want Slaf playing top minutes only because he's a first overall pick either. I have always questioned how this team develops players , it's just odd.

I'm against calling out some players, and not others and this team gives certain guys a free pass.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't want a 8 million dollar Laine rotting on the bottom lines, they gotta bust him out.

Better he rots on the bottom four than rotting in the top six.

He's not effective right now. He's playing like Dach did. That's not his fault but playing him in the top six isn't going to change anything.

I don't want Slaf playing top minutes only because he's a first overall pick either. I have always questioned how this team develops players , it's just odd.

He's going to put up a 50 point season. It's not great but we don't really have an alternative right now.

Others are on the way. Laine will be healthy next year. We'll have help but not now. Slaf's the best we've got. I'd have no issues moving him down but there's nobody to replace him with.

I'm against calling out some players, and not others and this team gives certain guys a free pass.

Stop with this "free pass" sfuff. They are playing completely different hockey right now.

Slaf may not be playing great but he's much better than Laine is right now. It's not close. Laine's produced on the PP and that's it. He's sucked at 5 on 5. And it's not just lack of production, he's actively hurting the 2nd line by killing plays. He's not healthy. Just let him get his game back without pressure. We're not going anywhere this year anyways. Next year is a completely different story.

 

[ReHabs]

If he's injured he shouldn't be playing, if not he is free to be criticised like every other player getting criticised.

Laine is a special case *because* of his poor fitness and injury issues. He needs to play to get caught up. The Habs were paid a pick to take on his salary for a reason.

Obsessing over this guy while ignoring the context simply doesn’t work.

Being injured is not an excuse for bringing literally nothing to a line other than dead weight. MSL has said as much by demoting him.

That’s fair enough — he’s playing awful. I wouldn’t mind scratching him either. I wanted Dach scratched earlier too — that would’ve been fair too. You had a multi-day meltdown when I made this argument in the Dach thread.

MSL isn’t gonna bench players and we don’t have the depth to rotate. So once again: obsessing over Laine while ignoring the context simply doesn’t work.

There's no nuance to understand, you got called out on a bad take and run around in circles claiming someone doesn't understand.

There isn’t any nuance here whatsoever, I used as simple language with you as I could. I don’t even know what you consider my “take” in the first place.

I don't want a 8 million dollar Laine rotting on the bottom lines, they gotta bust him out. I don't want Slaf playing top minutes only because he's a first overall pick either. I have always questioned how this team develops players , it's just odd.

I'm against calling out some players, and not others and this team gives certain guys a free pass.

We’re beyond the pale with Slaf. He a was gifted an NHL spot he didn’t earn, a top line spot he didn’t earn, and a jumbo contract he didn’t earn.

There’s no point trying to argue he should be given some meritocratic treatment all of a sudden.

Hughes is a rookie GM with a rookie head coach, they’re not experienced enough to know when to correct course from the consequences of their own decisions.

 

[Habssince89]

If Laine were to step up his game, that line could wind up being pretty good with Demidov on it.

One thing though, they may want to just put Demidov in with CC and Suzuki. Don’t mess with anything and give him the best chance to develop. That’d mean Dach, Slaf and Laine which might also work.

I figure either he benefits directly from playing with Demidov or gets the general benefit of the Habs having two legit top6 lines

 

[Habs]

Stop with this "free pass" sfuff. They are playing completely different hockey right now.

Oh so you get a 'free pass' if you job is to float around the 3rd and 4th lines, but not on the top 2? Interesting. Dvorak and Armia even get PP time lol

 

[LaP]

He's going to put up a 50 point season. It's not great but we don't really have an alternative right now.

That's what makes me laugh about people who say Slaf is being given TOI he should not have. There's no other option and until there is no reason to change anything.

Anderson was tried for about 20-30 games last year and it was far worse than Slaf. Gallagher have been demoted to bottom 6 for a reason. Newhook was tried a few games and outside of skating fast it looked exectly like his time on the 2nd line. Dach looked about the same as Slaf give or take so the result and complain would be the same.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Oh so you get a 'free pass' if you job is to float around the 3rd and 4th lines, but not on the top 2? Interesting. Dvorak and Armia even get PP time lol

Who's a better option there than Slaf now?

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Laine is a special case *because* of his poor fitness and injury issues. He needs to play to get caught up. The Habs were paid a pick to take on his salary for a reason.

Obsessing over this guy while ignoring the context simply doesn’t work.

Laine wasn't injured all last year, he could skate just fine. He is playing, on the third line where he can't drag down our other lines. He is getting his opportunity to get back into shape this season and the next but that doesn't mean he is free from criticism just like the other 3.

That’s fair enough — he’s playing awful. I wouldn’t mind scratching him either. I wanted Dach scratched earlier too — that would’ve been fair too. You had a multi-day meltdown when I made this argument in the Dach thread.

Scratching a player that needs conditioning exacerbates the whole problem, put him on a lower line but he needed to play NHL minutes to get back to NHL speed. That's common with players who have a long period of time not being able to skate. MSL didn't scratch him so I guess you were wrong.

MSL isn’t gonna bench players and we don’t have the depth to rotate. So once again: obsessing over Laine while ignoring the context simply doesn’t work.


There isn’t any nuance here whatsoever, I used as simple language with you as I could. I don’t even know what you consider my “take” in the first place.

You're the only one obsessing over Laine.

Yeah you kept bringing up the picks when talking about how bad those 3 are and how they're underperforming. You were trying to wedge this awful argument in to strengthen your weak position. Called it out and you run in circles trying to deny it. Pretty simple.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's what makes me laugh about people who say Slaf is being given TOI he should not have. There's no other option and until there is no reason to change anything.

Anderson was tried for about 20-30 games last year and it was far worse than Slaf. Gallagher have been demoted to bottom 6 for a reason. Newhook was tried a few games and outside of skating fast it looked exectly like his time on the 2nd line. Dach looked about the same as Slaf give or take so the result and complain would be the same.

Exactly. It's not like we can bring in Demidov. Slaf is a better option than Anderson. And Anderson is a better option than Laine.

 

[ReHabs]

Laine wasn't injured all last year, he could skate just fine.

He played 18 games all of last season. What the f*** are you talking about

 

[Habs]

Who's a better option there than Slaf now?

At times, nobody, other times Laine or Heineman?

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Dach is a solid player. He's played good hockey for a while now. It's like folks don't watch the games.

If this is Dach's version of good hockey, then I still don't see him as a fit long term outside of 3rd line W.

Still, he could be a valuable piece for us as a 3rd line W that can fill in on the top line when injuries hit, but I really don't like his defensive awareness at C

 

[OneSharpMarble]

He played 18 games all of last season. What the f*** are you talking about

Yeah and he could still skate and keep up his conditioning, something that Dach could not do. What the f*** are you talking about?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

At times, nobody, other times Laine or Heineman?

Laine... never. Not this season.

Heineman was working beautifully with Evans. Both were on pace for 20 goals each and getting more icetime than the 2nd line was.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If this is Dach's version of good hockey, then I still don't see him as a fit long term outside of 3rd line W.

I don't think you've been watching closely enough. He storms the net, plays physical and he doesn't have great wingers. He's been good and next year he'll be better.

Still, he could be a valuable piece for us as a 3rd line W that can fill in on the top line when injuries hit, but I really don't like his defensive awareness at C

If he's on the 3rd line then you're in great shape. I'm totally fine moving him down but you'd better have a really good 2nd line center to replace him. Dach's 6'4 frame is really nice to have in the top six.

 

[Sharknado2]

Dach - Newhook - Slaf did not work
Dach - Newhook - Caufield did not work
Dach - Newhook - Laine did not work

I don't think Laine's 5 on 5 production should be critisized until he plays with legit top 6 players like Suzuki and Caufield.

Also, the comments by MSL towards Laine was really bad. He was basically saying if you don't show me what you got, you play on the 4th line. Evans Armia and Heineman are probably scratching their heads over that comment.

 

[SlafySZN]

Dach - Newhook - Slaf did not work
Dach - Newhook - Caufield did not work
Dach - Newhook - Laine did not work

I don't think Laine's 5 on 5 production should be critisized until he plays with legit top 6 players like Suzuki and Caufield.

Also, the comments by MSL towards Laine was really bad. He was basically saying if you don't show me what you got, you play on the 4th line. Evans Armia and Heineman are probably scratching their heads over that comment.

Caufield never played with Dach and Newhook. He played couple of games with Evans and Armia this season and still produced 5 on 5 in those games, I don’t know why Laine wouldn’t be able to.