Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[Balthazar]

I mean, we all remember how bad Dach looked when he came back right?

He looked bad when he came back? As opposed to now?

 

[HHel]

Both Newhook and Dach 3 points in 2 games without Laine.

Laine 0 pts in 2 games.

2 games 5 vs 5
Newhook and Dach 2 GF and 3 GA

Laine 0 GF and 0 GA

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He looked bad when he came back? As opposed to now?

Yes.

He’s playing well. The 2nd line has been better than our first on this road trip.

 

[LaineBOOM]

2 games 5 vs 5
Newhook and Dach 2 GF and 3 GA

Laine 0 GF and 0 GA

So it seems Laine is excelling defensively away from Newhook and Dach. A very promising sign! If Laine can be 0 GF and 0 GA on 5 v 5 for a full season, and lets say can score 30 apples on the PP he will definitely be worth every penny.

 

[schwang26]

2 games 5 vs 5
Newhook and Dach 2 GF and 3 GA

Laine 0 GF and 0 GA

He’s playing with Evans and Armia. They’re our best defensive forwards and forecheckers. Laine has NOT contributed to that at all.

 

[Marioesque]

He’s playing with Evans and Armia. They’re our best defensive forwards and forecheckers. Laine has NOT contributed to that at all.

He also hasn't contributed to the 2nd line losing their matchups and being on the minus, while he's in the 4th line.

The second line is still defensively atrocious, that didn't improve by moving Laine.

Newhook is finally playing at his full ability, that's where the offensive buzz has come from but he's still not a very productive forward either. His ceiling is this.

 

[WeThreeKings]

He also hasn't contributed to the 2nd line losing their matchups and being on the minus, while he's in the 4th line.

The second line is still defensively atrocious, that didn't improve by moving Laine.

Newhook is finally playing at his full ability, that's where the offensive buzz has come from but he's still not a very productive forward either. His ceiling is this.

People were putting the blame for Laine's struggles on Dach and Newhook. Yet, those two immediately started producing again when Laine was removed from their line, and Laine didn't enjoy any productivity boost.

It shows what the eye test was showing, that Laine wasn't working on that line and it wasn't Dach/Newhook who were the problem offensively on that line. It was, in fact, Laine's penchant for turnovers and poor puck touches on the cycle.

Bringing Laine down in the bottom 6 while he finds his form, conditioning, confidence and play is the right tactic right now.

 

[vayrynen]

If Laine can be 0 GF and 0 GA on 5 v 5 for a full season, and lets say can score 30 apples on the PP he will definitely be worth every penny.

That would be something. His record is 20 PPG per season, and second-best brought 15 goals. The third best is this season as Laine hasn't reached two figures in other seasons.

 

[LaineBOOM]

That would be something. His record is 20 PPG per season, and second-best brought 15 goals. The third best is this season as Laine hasn't reached two figures in other seasons.

Has he ever played 0 minutes of 5 v 5 for the whole season, and the full PP of each PP with the energy he saves from playing no 5 v 5.

I guaraantee he would have the 0 GF, 0 GA, and 30 PP goals for that season.

Is that worth more than 2-3 million though. Maybe he would take it when he is 37 and if he is allowed to do whatever he wants while sitting on the bench.

 

[Marioesque]

People were putting the blame for Laine's struggles on Dach and Newhook.

Correctly. They are still not offensively good, but their resurgence offensively came with Laine in the line.
I agree the last few games they looked better than Laine, but it's the sum of it's parts. That line did not have the chemistry or the style that would get anything much out of Laine. Armia and Evans are better for him, but the limited ice time limits any production. This was easy to see in many plays where especially Laine and Armia played short, quick passes in the offensive zone. That's the kind of play Laine is good at, not standing in front of the net trying to tip the pucks, as he was reduced to in the 2nd line.

Yet, those two immediately started producing again when Laine was removed from their line, and Laine didn't enjoy any productivity boost.

They gave up more than they dished so I don't know if that's anything to write home about.

It shows what the eye test was showing, that Laine wasn't working on that line and it wasn't Dach/Newhook who were the problem offensively on that line.

Well then our eye test disagrees. Laine is the best offensive player out of the 3 by far but his role in the line was wrong. He's not a net front player

 

[LaineBOOM]

Cant wait for the 2 daytime games this weekend! I already told the fam that I will book the living room TV for those games, and that I will eat popcorn at least during the Sunday-game.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Correctly. They are still not offensively good, but their resurgence offensively came with Laine in the line.
I agree the last few games they looked better than Laine, but it's the sum of it's parts. That line did not have the chemistry or the style that would get anything much out of Laine. Armia and Evans are better for him, but the limited ice time limits any production. This was easy to see in many plays where especially Laine and Armia played short, quick passes in the offensive zone. That's the kind of play Laine is good at, not standing in front of the net trying to tip the pucks, as he was reduced to in the 2nd line.




They gave up more than they dished so I don't know if that's anything to write home about.


Well then our eye test disagrees. Laine is the best offensive player out of the 3 by far but his role in the line was wrong. He's not a net front player

Their resurgence offensively came after the break. Laine wasn't producing anything 5 on 5 and neither Newhook or Dach were on PP1 with Laine. So to attribute Dach and Newhook getting better offensively because Laine was on their line, is just false. He didn't help them 5 on 5 at all and didn't help them produce at all.

That line did not have any chemistry and it should have been broken up. But Laine is part of why the chemistry was so bad. He can't create off the cycle because his puck touches on the cycle were instant giveaways and he couldn't create off the rush because his timing isn't back yet so that was a turnover instead of moving the puck to an open Dach or Newhook and then getting open to shoot.

Nobody directed Laine to go stand in front of the net and tip pucks, nor did he actually do that. Dach was most often the guy getting to the front of the net and tipping pucks. This is a fabricated excuse for Laine.

I was not claiming they were suddenly better defensively without Laine. Just remarking that without Laine, they started producing and Laine didn't. That would point to the fact that Laine was the problem with the line, not the reverse. Yet Laine apologists wanted to blame Dach and Newhook for his lack of production. It was never true. The eye test could have told anyone that.

Laine is the best offensive player of the 3. He isn't playing better offensively than either Dach or Newhook currently. But Laine will do nothing offensively until he can maintain possession, make better reads at the blueline, and can play a give and go game, rather than a take and turn over. The two goals Fiala scored last night are the exact type of plays he should be trying to create for himself 5 on 5 and he certainly hasn't been doing that.

The fact is that Laine is rusty, is still recovering from a net new injury on top of that rust. I don't expect him to be prime Laine, as I didn't expect Dach to be dropped into where he was before his last injury, either. People just have to be realistic and stop trying to blame anyone but Laine. Laine is the problem right now. It's to be expected. It's fine. He will come around. It's not Dach. It's not Newhook. It's not phantom directives. It's his play, his confidence, and his rust. Let's just be real about it.

 

[26Mats]

Their resurgence offensively came after the break. Laine wasn't producing anything 5 on 5 and neither Newhook or Dach were on PP1 with Laine. So to attribute Dach and Newhook getting better offensively because Laine was on their line, is just false. He didn't help them 5 on 5 at all and didn't help them produce at all.

That line did not have any chemistry and it should have been broken up. But Laine is part of why the chemistry was so bad. He can't create off the cycle because his puck touches on the cycle were instant giveaways and he couldn't create off the rush because his timing isn't back yet so that was a turnover instead of moving the puck to an open Dach or Newhook and then getting open to shoot.

Nobody directed Laine to go stand in front of the net and tip pucks, nor did he actually do that. Dach was most often the guy getting to the front of the net and tipping pucks. This is a fabricated excuse for Laine.

I was not claiming they were suddenly better defensively without Laine. Just remarking that without Laine, they started producing and Laine didn't. That would point to the fact that Laine was the problem with the line, not the reverse. Yet Laine apologists wanted to blame Dach and Newhook for his lack of production. It was never true. The eye test could have told anyone that.

Laine is the best offensive player of the 3. He isn't playing better offensively than either Dach or Newhook currently. But Laine will do nothing offensively until he can maintain possession, make better reads at the blueline, and can play a give and go game, rather than a take and turn over. The two goals Fiala scored last night are the exact type of plays he should be trying to create for himself 5 on 5 and he certainly hasn't been doing that.

The fact is that Laine is rusty, is still recovering from a net new injury on top of that rust. I don't expect him to be prime Laine, as I didn't expect Dach to be dropped into where he was before his last injury, either. People just have to be realistic and stop trying to blame anyone but Laine. Laine is the problem right now. It's to be expected. It's fine. He will come around. It's not Dach. It's not Newhook. It's not phantom directives. It's his play, his confidence, and his rust. Let's just be real about it.

Laine may be a problem for Newhook, maybe even for Dach. But Newhook was definitely a problem for Laine. So many times I saw Laine start one of the give an go plays you alluded to, only for Laine to lose it.

But Newhook has been great recently with Anderson opposite him. It gives hope that he'll find a good bottom six role long term. Last year he was great with Armia and Gallagher or Roy as the center of a trio. Now he's good opposite Anderson. This bodes well. Would be great to have a good bottom six line that is dangerous on the counter rush and good defensively with Newhook in a staring role.

As for Dach, I don't think he's all the way back. As I really liked his trajectory before the injury. I'm giving him until the end of next season. I look forward to seeing him midseason next season. Patience is key.

As fof Laine, I don't know who his optimal linemates are. Next year, maybe Suzuki or Demidov. This year, maybe Dach and Armia, with Newhook - Evans - Anderson being the key two way line. Evans plays well with fast players. And he and Armia can still be the lead PK duo. But Laine might even be good with Dvo, who can cycle, go into the corners, and make plays with his linemates. New combos need to be tried...