Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[jonu]

I made some pancake

 

[CBJWerenski8]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820455420961390768

 

[VT]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820455420961390768

IMHO the only fair suggestion:

To Columbus: all the wrong contracts
To Minnesota: Laine, retain 50% salary, 1st round draft pick

Did I write all right, or does anyone think we robbed Minnesota?

 

[Indy18]

Now this is one I been trying to figure out for a bit now. Is Freddy Gaudreau Evason's "security blanket" player or something from his time from the Wild? I have seen the memes but not fully sure if I understand them.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Now this is one I been trying to figure out for a bit now. Is Freddy Gaudreau Evason's "security blanket" player or something from his time from the Wild? I have seen the memes but not fully sure if I understand them.

Yeah. That’s what I understand at least. Sort of like Jenner was for Lars/Vincent (except he’s actually good).

Unless Foligno or Hartman are in the deal (two guys I don’t necessarily want at their price tag and years remaining) I don’t see how Minnesota is in play.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Yeah. That’s what I understand at least. Sort of like Jenner was for Lars/Vincent (except he’s actually good).

Unless Foligno or Hartman are in the deal (two guys I don’t necessarily want at their price tag and years remaining) I don’t see how Minnesota is in play.

the "we need more boone jenners, not less" crowd should be all over the idea of adding ryan hartman lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820455420961390768

i really would like to add a ferrari to my garage but there are uhhhh "major financial complications" preventing that from happening

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I really like Ryan Hartman and I would probably do that straight up for Laine not looking at anyone's cap but I also understand why someone would oppose the idea.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

the "we need more boone jenners, not less" crowd should be all over the idea of adding ryan hartman lol


i really would like to add a ferrari to my garage but there are uhhhh "major financial complications" preventing that from happening

I like Hartman as a player and yes he does fit in that mold of being harder to play against, but we kinda have a future guy like him with Brindley. He’s also smaller and we’re already small.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I like Hartman as a player and yes he does fit in that mold of being harder to play against, but we kinda have a future guy like him with Brindley. He’s also smaller and we’re already small.

ehhhh, ryan hartman is three inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than brindley.

hartman (6'0 197) is basically sillinger-sized (6'1 201) although i think sillinger's probably a good 10-15 pounds heavier than his listed weight. then again, hartman may be as well.

my point is that any time someone brings up trading boone jenner, there's a litany of "we need more boone jenners, actually" and hartman is as close as it gets to being 'another boone jenner'

• hard to play against
• natural winger who competes hard enough to fill in at center for long stretches
• defensive reputation that outweighs actual defensive impacts
• good for 50-60 points most seasons
• misses a decent amount of time with injuries
• wears #38

the main differences are that jenner's bigger and better at face-offs, but otherwise they're eerily similar.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

ehhhh, ryan hartman is three inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than brindley.

hartman (6'0 197) is basically sillinger-sized (6'1 201) although i think sillinger's probably a good 10-15 pounds heavier than his listed weight. then again, hartman may be as well.

my point is that any time someone brings up trading boone jenner, there's a litany of "we need more boone jenners, actually" and hartman is as close as it gets to being 'another boone jenner'

• hard to play against
• natural winger who competes hard enough to fill in at center for long stretches
• defensive reputation that outweighs actual defensive impacts
• good for 50-60 points most seasons
• misses a decent amount of time with injuries
• wears #38

the main differences are that jenner's bigger and better at face-offs, but otherwise they're eerily similar.

Also, acquiring Ryan Hartman rights an 11-year-old wrong of Jarmo passing on him twice (technically three times but I'd have drafted Hartman at 19 or 27 in 2013).

 

[CBJWerenski8]

ehhhh, ryan hartman is three inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than brindley.

hartman (6'0 197) is basically sillinger-sized (6'1 201) although i think sillinger's probably a good 10-15 pounds heavier than his listed weight. then again, hartman may be as well.

my point is that any time someone brings up trading boone jenner, there's a litany of "we need more boone jenners, actually" and hartman is as close as it gets to being 'another boone jenner'

• hard to play against
• natural winger who competes hard enough to fill in at center for long stretches
• defensive reputation that outweighs actual defensive impacts
• good for 50-60 points most seasons
• misses a decent amount of time with injuries
• wears #38

the main differences are that jenner's bigger and better at face-offs, but otherwise they're eerily similar.

Fair enough.

 

[Xoggz22]

IMHO the only fair suggestion:

To Columbus: all the wrong contracts
To Minnesota: Laine, retain 50% salary, 1st round draft pick

Did I write all right, or does anyone think we robbed Minnesota?

I know this is said in jest but if you haven't read the article it's a pretty good one I thought. Ultimately it says that Laine would be ideal for the Wild, but they don't see a realistic way to fit him in with the dead cap money. They talked about who might be able to be moved to offset the cost of Laine and note that only with 50% retained would it work, but still a major challenge. I think it was more about getting higher end talent to help ease the pressure off Kaprizov.

Ultimately, I could see Laine as a double retention to get a better deal, however, that's on 2 years and not one, like at the deadline deals so even that presents challenges considering the 3rd party would also have retention for 2 years. Going to be a tricky one but as others have said...someone is going to lose a top 6 player and come calling.

 

[majormajor]

Yeah. That’s what I understand at least. Sort of like Jenner was for Lars/Vincent (except he’s actually good).

So Jenner wasn't actually good, but Frederick Gaudreau was?

I'm not sure how we're assessing that.

Frederick Gaudreau was back down to 15 points last year, Jenner usually scores more goals than that. Gaudreau doesn't have much of a track record, and has 4 years left on his deal. If Evason feels he needs him, then fine, it's not a big cap hit.

Unless Foligno or Hartman are in the deal (two guys I don’t necessarily want at their price tag and years remaining) I don’t see how Minnesota is in play.

Hartman's contract looks legit good, and Marcus Foligno's legit bad. Hartman's is $4m x 3 until he's 32, coming off a 45 point season. Foligno had a rough injury ruined season and is owed $4m from age his current age of 32 until 36. I like the Hartman deal.

ehhhh, ryan hartman is three inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than brindley.

hartman (6'0 197) is basically sillinger-sized (6'1 201) although i think sillinger's probably a good 10-15 pounds heavier than his listed weight. then again, hartman may be as well.

my point is that any time someone brings up trading boone jenner, there's a litany of "we need more boone jenners, actually" and hartman is as close as it gets to being 'another boone jenner'

• hard to play against
• natural winger who competes hard enough to fill in at center for long stretches
• defensive reputation that outweighs actual defensive impacts
• good for 50-60 points most seasons
• misses a decent amount of time with injuries
• wears #38

the main differences are that jenner's bigger and better at face-offs, but otherwise they're eerily similar.

Hartman's only topped 45 points once in his career. But that's fine with me, I like his value even as a 45 pt guy. He upgrades the competitiveness of the lineup, seems like a good leader. He's versatile. We can certainly use him for a lot of the same reasons we need Boone Jenner.

 

[Xoggz22]

Now this is one I been trying to figure out for a bit now. Is Freddy Gaudreau Evason's "security blanket" player or something from his time from the Wild? I have seen the memes but not fully sure if I understand them.

Freddy Gaudreau played exceptionally well under Evason. He's one of the examples of Evason getting more out of less and the article insinuates that FG would love a chance to play for Evason again. He's a glue guy that is a bottom 6 player that played well above expectation for his overall game under The Dean

 

[majormajor]

I know this is said in jest but if you haven't read the article it's a pretty good one I thought. Ultimately it says that Laine would be ideal for the Wild, but they don't see a realistic way to fit him in with the dead cap money. They talked about who might be able to be moved to offset the cost of Laine and note that only with 50% retained would it work, but still a major challenge. I think it was more about getting higher end talent to help ease the pressure off Kaprizov.

Ultimately, I could see Laine as a double retention to get a better deal, however, that's on 2 years and not one, like at the deadline deals so even that presents challenges considering the 3rd party would also have retention for 2 years. Going to be a tricky one but as others have said...someone is going to lose a top 6 player and come calling.

If we take Hartman and Freddy Gaudreau back that's a minimum of $2.6m retention that we need to put on Laine, or a bit under $2m retention if they're okay with a 22 man roster.

$.75m in current cap space
$4m for Hartman
$2.1m for Gaudreau (either replaced by $800k player or not replaced if they do a 22 man roster)
$1.85m in retention paid by CBJ

That would equal $8.7m exactly, so perhaps add $100k retention to that for a little realism.

I could see us doing a deal for Hartman, F Gaudreau, and a pick for Laine with $1.9 retention. I don't see the need or willingness to talk about 50% retention.

 

[VT]

I know this is said in jest but if you haven't read the article it's a pretty good one I thought. Ultimately it says that Laine would be ideal for the Wild, but they don't see a realistic way to fit him in with the dead cap money. They talked about who might be able to be moved to offset the cost of Laine and note that only with 50% retained would it work, but still a major challenge. I think it was more about getting higher end talent to help ease the pressure off Kaprizov.

Ultimately, I could see Laine as a double retention to get a better deal, however, that's on 2 years and not one, like at the deadline deals so even that presents challenges considering the 3rd party would also have retention for 2 years. Going to be a tricky one but as others have said...someone is going to lose a top 6 player and come calling.

I red it. But I don't know if the suggestions are that good. Besides, a lot of the players are supposed to be M-NTC, or NMC.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

So Jenner wasn't actually good, but Frederick Gaudreau was?

I'm not sure how we're assessing that.

Come on now you know me. I was saying Jenner is actually good and Gaudreau isn’t.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Hartman's only topped 45 points once in his career. But that's fine with me, I like his value even as a 45 pt guy. He upgrades the competitiveness of the lineup, seems like a good leader. He's versatile. We can certainly use him for a lot of the same reasons we need Boone Jenner.

yeah i'd definitely take hartman on this team. they can't just throw a bunch of young guys out there with no help and hope they figure it out. plus he has familiarity with the coach and system. a johnson - fantilli - hartman line would be pretty sick.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Come on now you know me. I was saying Jenner is actually good and Gaudreau isn’t.

freddy gaudreau is a 50% better version of justin danforth for twice as much money.

that said, i'm not a huge danforth guy and would actually really like freddy gaudreau on this team, but there's not a spot for him unless they ship more than one guy out. he'd be a good 3C or 3RW but there's just not a need for that unless they ship out someone like sillinger first. and freddy gaudreau isn't the type of guy who you ship out a guy like sillinger to make room for.

 

[VT]

To better understand the situation.

I'm very interested in who will be involved in the swap and how Minnesota will get rid of some contracts.

@Xoggz22 Btw, I wrote all bad contracts. And we do not know which are bad contracts for Minnesota.

 

[majormajor]

Come on now you know me. I was saying Jenner is actually good and Gaudreau isn’t.

That makes a lot more sense, I shouldn't have misread you. Just so much cynical posting here that I got thrown off.

I don't know the details about Freddy Gaudreau's performance in his two good seasons but maybe it was actually good. He's just more situational / dependent than a guy like Jenner.

freddy gaudreau is a 50% better version of justin danforth for twice as much money.

that said, i'm not a huge danforth guy and would actually really like freddy gaudreau on this team, but there's not a spot for him unless they ship more than one guy out. he'd be a good 3C or 3RW but there's just not a need for that unless they ship out someone like sillinger first. and freddy gaudreau isn't the type of guy who you ship out a guy like sillinger to make room for.

We have these "no room" debates and "who gets sent down" debates every year, and invariably a few guys are injured by game two of the season, usually Laine among them.

 

[Cowumbus]

He wouldn’t be the main piece but I kind of like Middleton from the wild.

 

[majormajor]

He wouldn’t be the main piece but I kind of like Middleton from the wild.

Middleton would be exactly what we need - a stout nasty defensive D who can play middle pair. But I can't imagine the Wild parting with him, their D depth falls off a cliff.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I like your board. You all provide plenty of hockey information. As well as dessert tips.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I like your board. You all provide plenty of hockey information. As well as dessert tips.

This is the point at which @Viqsi would typically come in and give you a cookie. For obvious reasons.