Patrick Marleau hit to head against Bryan Rust (No DoPS Discipline)

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MoeManthaMustache

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
526
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Landeskog also hit Marchand with a blindside hit, which Marleau didn't. They talk extensively in the clip about how that places all the onus on the person throwing the hit to avoid head contact.

They specifically address this in the DOPS video saying that it doesn't matter if it's blindside or not (they actually even say blindside hits are not necessarily illegal). In the end it comes down to head being main point of contact regardless of what part of your body hits him.

The onus is on a player hitting a vulnerable player, which Rust was.

This should have been at the least a fine as given by previous logic expressed by the DOPS. This marks either a complete change in direction, or some odd bias.
 

stepdad gaary

Registered User
Dec 5, 2011
7,249
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In Kerry Fraser's and Puck Daddy's it was not. Both said it was not a suspendable hit. Kerry Fraser even basically said it was borderline being even 2 minutes, though he didn't quibble with it too much. Did you read either link I posted?

You keep saying he should have been suspended. Why are you a more objective and knowledgeable judge of this than either one of those individuals? Care to explain why anyone should take your word over theirs?

Can ANY Penguin fan explain why both of those impartial and knowledgeable individuals said it was not suspension worthy, yet you are still clamoring for one?


again, never claimed to be.


I am simply say that based on the hit it looks to me like the head was the principal point of contact. Principal is a difficult word for some people. Many think it means first as it the first part of the body that is touched. When it reality it means first in order of importance. aka what part of the body took the most critical part of the impact.





These other people with their opinions are great. I'm glad to hear others thoughts.
 

DonskoiDonscored

Registered User
Oct 12, 2013
18,641
9
I had a model employee running late one morning. He ran a red light, hit another car and killed the occupants. Now, there was no way the man woke up and said to himself. “This morning I will runs a red light and kill some folks in a carâ€. He made a bad decision in a split second and it cost him plenty.

IMO Marleau, like many others in his position, made a split second decision when he seen a prone Rust to make a hit. That decision was the last second bad decision that now goes un-punished for whatever BS reason the NHL spews. Regardless of Marleau’s clean history, he made primary contact to the head and should have been suspended. Plus we make excuses like Rust had his head down.

I don't think this came off as the way you intended it to come off but this is pretty brutal in the comparison you make. I know you're trying to make Marleau's hit seem worse and add in shock value, but this is just something else lol...
 

MoeManthaMustache

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
526
61
The only way you follow that logic to this conclusion is to ignore the differences that are spelled out in both cases. In Landeskog's case, the main point of contact is the head. That is not the case with Marleau. In Landeskog's case, it actually was a shoulder to the head. That was not the case with Marleau. In Landeskog's case, it was mentioned how his positioning didn't materially change. In Marleau's case, they specifically mentioned Rust being low and off-balanced which implies a change in position. Now I don't know if I necessarily agree with that portion of it but there's more than enough differences to debunk Landeskog as a comparable hit.

This is exactly where the DOPS treated these similar cases differently. They actually say in the Landeskog video that the head was not the first contact, but then say it's the main point of contact, I see zero difference at all with the Rust hit in that regard, the fact they are treating the two different should disgust fans of the game, it's simply objective picking and choosing at that point.

Rust's head does not move, it's right where it was when Marleau started skating at him.

With no record I don't think you can suspend Marleau for this hit, but it's far deserving enough of being fined so that he has a record.
 

CrypTic

Registered User
Oct 2, 2013
5,069
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I am simply say that based on the hit it looks to me like the head was the principal point of contact. Principal is a difficult word for some people. Many think it means first as it the first part of the body that is touched. When it reality it means first in order of importance. aka what part of the body took the most critical part of the impact.

....

These other people with their opinions are great. I'm glad to hear others thoughts.

I understand that. I thought the Letang hit looked like the head was the main (but not first) point of contact but DoPS disagreed. They usually have more angles to look at so in close cases (like this one and the Letang hit imo), I give them the benefit of the doubt about that. They said that the head was not the main point of contact in either the Marleau or Letang hit, unlike the Landeskog hit so that's a significant difference. (I know you weren't comparing the Marleau and Landeskog hit but others have been.) I've changed my mind about what was the principal/main point of contact based on viewing some hits from various angles.

I hope that Rust is OK. I don't like to see players get hurt.
 

stepdad gaary

Registered User
Dec 5, 2011
7,249
814
I understand that. I thought the Letang hit looked like the head was the main (but not first) point of contact but DoPS disagreed. They usually have more angles to look at so in close cases (like this one and the Letang hit imo), I give them the benefit of the doubt about that. They said that the head was not the main point of contact in either the Marleau or Letang hit, unlike the Landeskog hit so that's a significant difference. (I know you weren't comparing the Marleau and Landeskog hit but others have been.) I've changed my mind about what was the principal/main point of contact based on viewing some hits from various angles.

I hope that Rust is OK. I don't like to see players get hurt.


cheers.

And in a show of good faith i am not going to attack your credibility simply because you are a sharks fan
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
30,279
23,067
Evanston, IL
They specifically address this in the DOPS video saying that it doesn't matter if it's blindside or not (they actually even say blindside hits are not necessarily illegal). In the end it comes down to head being main point of contact regardless of what part of your body hits him.

The onus is on a player hitting a vulnerable player, which Rust was.

This should have been at the least a fine as given by previous logic expressed by the DOPS. This marks either a complete change in direction, or some odd bias.

What? No they don't. They say that blindside hits are not necessarily illegal, but also that the fact that it's a blindside hit puts the onus entirely on the player throwing the hit.

@1:05, they address why it matters that it was blindside, and later talk about his angle of approach.
 

Limekiller

Registered User
May 16, 2010
3,886
514
SF Bay Area
cheers.

And in a show of good faith i am not going to attack your credibility simply because you are a sharks fan

Being pedantic, I never questioned your credibility. I questioned your objectivity compared to neutral observers and asked what qualifications you had that would make you a better judge of game film than Kerry Fraser. Different things.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
71,156
14,781
Folsom
This is exactly where the DOPS treated these similar cases differently. They actually say in the Landeskog video that the head was not the first contact, but then say it's the main point of contact, I see zero difference at all with the Rust hit in that regard, the fact they are treating the two different should disgust fans of the game, it's simply objective picking and choosing at that point.

Rust's head does not move, it's right where it was when Marleau started skating at him.

With no record I don't think you can suspend Marleau for this hit, but it's far deserving enough of being fined so that he has a record.

Then you're only looking to see what you want to see because DoPS laid out in tweets that Marleau's main contact was shoulder and chest and did not pick the head clean like Landeskog did. The video supports their statement.
 

Alwalys

Phu m.
May 19, 2010
25,894
6,140
I had a model employee running late one morning. He ran a red light, hit another car and killed the occupants. Now, there was no way the man woke up and said to himself. “This morning I will runs a red light and kill some folks in a carâ€. He made a bad decision in a split second and it cost him plenty.

IMO Marleau, like many others in his position, made a split second decision when he seen a prone Rust to make a hit. That decision was the last second bad decision that now goes un-punished for whatever BS reason the NHL spews. Regardless of Marleau’s clean history, he made primary contact to the head and should have been suspended. Plus we make excuses like Rust had his head down.

My former employee took the stand and tearfully explained how sorry he was and how fast it all happened. His defense attorney spoke about how good of a family man he was, how he volunteered at his church, how he sponsored and worked 1 weekend a year at Ronald McDonald House and how much his scout troop would miss him. The problem was, he was late and was speeding. 55 in a 25 zone, and rather than hit the brakes. He accelerated when he seen the light go from yellow to red. No doubt it’s something many of us have done in the past, but without killing a car full of folks.

Plus we see cars blow red lights all the time. Only in this specific case, a car with a family was also in a hurry and when they seen the green, they accelerated into the intersection and was struck and killed. Had they hesitated for 1 second, my employee would have sped past and that family would have made it to their destination

Would you be as will to forgive my former employee if it was your family or the Judge. What if a judge made his ruling…

“Well he hasn’t killed anybody in the past, they need him at work or a project will be late and it will impact the profitability of the company. Speeding isn’t like setting a house on fire with a family in it, or breaking down their door and shooting them. All he did was run a red light and is really that is only a moving violation anyway. And if that other family hadn’t been in such a hurry and looked before they entered the intersection they would have seen the car and would not have been hit.

Based on the past history, the incident being a moving violation and the other family being in a hurry and not looking all we will do at this time is let the defendant off with a warning at this time. But be rest assured if he runs a red light again and kills another family he will get jail time.†I would not be satisfied, I would be pissed seeing a guy who killed my family be set free because he was good in the past. The past has nothing to do with what you did today.

Maybe not on a parallel with the Marleau hit, but again. The rule is there, it’s plain as day he made head contact, previous folks did get suspended so why not this time.

IMO the NHL too many times worries about the impact to the game and the costs to the owners. Rather than the incident and the protection and safety of the players. If hits to the head were 4 game minimum suspension no questions asked, and multiplied 10 times for each hit after that . The hits to the head would stop overnight. There will be some growing minor pains, but if the NHL truly wanted to stop the head shots, they could.

If strong long suspensions happened owners would be on the hook and teams wins would suffer. With losses comes less fans, less fans = less money. But because NHL doesn’t want owners to pay the price, the craziness continues.

But the main problem is the NHL isn’t about player safety, it’s about ownership safety and wealth. When a player gets a shot just like Rust took and falls to the ice and dies, maybe the NHL will step up to the plate. But until then, don’t count on it. Because there is always another Rust in the minors, junior, college or overseas all too willing to step in. And we as fans all too willing to let the NHL off the hook.

This is an honestly embarrassing post.
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
32,678
13,159
The only reasonable thing for the Pens to do is to get revenge. Either with a more violent headshot or a skate to the neck.
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
22,117
13,314
These other people with their opinions are great. I'm glad to hear others thoughts.
The Head.
But Marleau is popular and this the SC finals.
If this was earlier in the playoffs, you'd be taking at least 1 game.
 

Battle Lin

Registered User
Dec 18, 2015
4,412
744
in the regular season this is a suspension, if u follow all other suspensions, they are all like this
 

Jaffray15

Registered User
Mar 12, 2008
567
25
Winnipeg
www.nhl94.com
I would say it's more of a 'blind-side' hit because Rust didn't see him coming. Marleau has his shoulder down and the hit isn't late, even though Rust didn't have possession of the puck at the time of the hit.

Given the current NHL rules, this should be a one game suspension because of the 'blind-side', but not because Marleau intended hitting him in the head.
 

Limekiller

Registered User
May 16, 2010
3,886
514
SF Bay Area
I would say it's more of a 'blind-side' hit because Rust didn't see him coming. Marleau has his shoulder down and the hit isn't late, even though Rust didn't have possession of the puck at the time of the hit.

Given the current NHL rules, this should be a one game suspension because of the 'blind-side', but not because Marleau intended hitting him in the head.

Then why does Kerry Fraser say it's not? Are you a better judge of game film and game rules than he is?
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
22,117
13,314
Time to LOCK thread.
Likely.

Just released secret NHL Player Safety Algorithm.

14indxj.jpg


Very interesting.
 

VanIslander

20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,896
6,722
South Korea
Gee,... so Marleau is a star now?

Someone tell the majority of HfBoard posters, you know, those who don't ever mention him except when they call him "soft" or "not clutch".:shakehead

Marleau has never been popular.
Oh, he has been the fan favorite in voting in San Jose (among season ticket holders) in 3 of the last 4 seasons. But on HfBoards, yeah, you are entirely right.
 

Rocket of Russia

Needs more Tang
Mar 8, 2012
3,463
5
USA
Has been said repeatedly to be chest and shoulder yet you act like you don't know that already.

Not even a few times. It's been said, "I agree with the DoPS" because it's easy to agree to a body of authority. There's very few here - outside of you NOW - saying that they would concur that Marleau got more chest/shoulder than he did head. When you objectively use your eyes to watch the replay from all angles, the head is the principal point. It's not even a debate.
 
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