Pastrnak or Laine?

[cg98]

Might want to check? What? I did tell you the total, so what was wrong with it?

Yeah of course Laine is decreasing. He played in the 1st line with Scheifele in the first season for more than half of it. He lead the league in goals and had the highest points per game numbers from end of december to end of feb. Since then he has pretty much played 2nd line minutes with Brian Little. When ever he gets away from it, he has a productive explosion.

Laine isn't regressing. He is progressing as an individual but his usage has basically gotten worse over time. Because every single time he gets released from the handcuffs, he breaks the league and goes on a tear that rivals Gretzky. Like when Stastny came in. Or when he played with Scheifele.

Wheeler isn't getting better, this isn't opposite world where young people get physically worse and old people get physically better. Look behind the numbers, compare comparable circumstances (if you honestly are interested in seeing who performs best...if driving an agenda then there's never any honesty). Laine can pretty much double the 5 on 5 production of Wheeler, when given the same linemates. There's no question which one should play 1st. Unless you are trying to keep a player under wraps to get a sneaky low contract.

Because older players can't improve or stay consistent in high levels of play Stop with your silly arguments. You've been disproven time and time again and even when presented real facts you use the same utilization argument. If he has to rely on his linemates for his production he does not deserve a spot on the top line, especially when there are other players on the team performing better than him. I don't see what's so hard for you to understand. As it stands right now I'm taking Pastrnak over Laine.

 

[cg98]

As a Jets fan I'd take Pasternak. Especially since the Jets window is the next two years and Pasternak is the more complete player. Laine may become more generational in time, but, by that time the Jets window will not be open. Buff, Wheeler, Little will be past their prime. Perrault is already past his prime. Myers, and Trouba will be gone.

Jets window is going to be open for more than two years, regardless if Perrault, Buff or Little regress. As long as we keep our picks and we draft and develop prospects properly like we have for the past few years, the core should stay in tact and probably improve.

 

[TeddyBare]

Might want to check? What? I did tell you the total, so what was wrong with it?

that fact that it is wrong
I showed you his 5v5 production is worse than Wheeler this season and last season.

This was your exact quote
"Wheeler is actually worse in 5 on 5 production than Laine, even though he plays with the best center in the Jets by far."

 

[Psych0dad]

Laine has certainly not outperformed Wheeler. Only real aspect that he's outperformed Wheeler in is goal scoring and even then quite a few of Laine's goals have come on the power play. If you've watched any of the games you'd know this. Wheeler has 61 points to Laine's 34 points. Of those 61 points Wheeler has 22 power play points, the rest are presumably even strength. Laine is in no way outperforming Wheeler in points production or even strength play. And if your argument is that Laine doesn't play with better linemates or that he needs a better center with better chemistry that doesn't really do anything for your case. If he needs to rely on his linemates for his own production currently then he's not deserving a spot on the top line.

Since Laine's rookie season as of today (not including playoffs):
Wheeler: total pts-226
pp points: 83
ev points:143

Laine total pts-168 (he did miss 9 games in rookie season)
pp points:58
ev points:110

I have watched most of the games past 3 seasons, only in the past month or so I have skipped a few because I am completely fed up with the BS coach.

See you just proved there that Laine is less dependent on PP points than Wheeler.

And here...

"Only real aspect that he's outperformed Wheeler in is goal scoring"

That's the only real aspect that decides a winner in hockey game.

 

[Psych0dad]

that fact that it is wrong
I showed you his 5v5 production is worse than Wheeler this season and last season.

This was your exact quote
"Wheeler is actually worse in 5 on 5 production than Laine, even though he plays with the best center in the Jets by far."

Yes, if you go from the start of Laine's career to this date, that is the truth. Or was last week, last I checked. 2 for Wheeler, 2.07 for Laine. 5 on 5.

You just want to argue something else. Like maybe suggesting Laine is regressing 18-20.....

 

[cg98]

I have watched most of the games past 3 seasons, only in the past month or so I have skipped a few because I am completely fed up with the BS coach.

See you just proved there that Laine is less dependent on PP points than Wheeler.

And here...

"Only real aspect that he's outperformed Wheeler in is goal scoring"

That's the only real aspect that decides a winner in hockey game.

Thats what you take of it? LOL. Not the fact that Wheeler posts way more even strength points than Laine and even outperforms him on the powerplay If you think that playmakers also don't contribute to the goalcount in the game of hockey you're delusional. I'll take Wheeler's current play and production over Laine's current play and production, and I'll take Pastrnak over Laine any day of the week at the moment.

 

[The Big M]

Before his 20th birthday, Pastrnak scored 25 goals.
Laine scored 80...just saying...

Oh...and Laine is Finnish and bigger
than him.

 

[wintersej]

I would take Krejci over Little any day. Little isn't a bad center but the guy just isn't a top-6 center and has zero chemistry with Laine for the past 2 seasons, yet the Jets are forcing this line combination. Paul Maurice isn't doing Laine any favors this season and this is clearly the plan for Winnipeg to sign him for cheaper as his contract is ending.

Next season we will see Laine more with Scheifele or Wheeler. He has chemistry with both and I feel like Maurice might actually even separate Scheifele and Wheeler sometimes during next season. Just now Winnipeg doesn't need to do that as they almost have their playoff spot secured.

Krejci is still one of the best "shot assist" guys in the NHL. He just hasn't been playing with Lucic, Horton, Pasta or Loui Eriksson the last few years. Laine would love Krejci. Little, I think, is a 2nd line center. But he aint a playmaker like Laine needs.

 

[PB37]

My heart says Pasta but my head says Laine. I just think he's having a " down " year and will rebound. It happens sometimes.

Love Pasta on my Bruins but Laine to me is just a little bit better a goal scorer. Certainly could not go wrong with having either one on your team though; Both kids are elite.

 

[SR]

Pastrnak every-time. No question.

 

[Psych0dad]

Thats what you take of it? LOL. Not the fact that Wheeler posts way more even strength points than Laine and even outperforms him on the powerplay If you think that playmakers also don't contribute to the goalcount in the game of hockey you're delusional. I'll take Wheeler's current play and production over Laine's current play and production, and I'll take Pastrnak over Laine any day of the week at the moment.

Umm ok so you didn't understand i was talking about 5 on 5 production pace per 60 minutes played.

Do you understand that your argument is totally different? It doesn't address my argument. You are talking about point totals, which isn't pace. If one plays 3-5 minutes more a game, they will likely have much more points. Even if they were producing slower than the other.

 

[cg98]

Umm ok so you didn't understand i was talking about 5 on 5 production pace per 60 minutes played.

Do you understand that your argument is totally different? It doesn't address my argument. You are talking about point totals, which isn't pace. If one plays 3-5 minutes more a game, they will likely have much more points. Even if they were producing slower than the other.

Your 5v5 pts/60 argument was debunked so nice try And even then Wheelers production > Laines production.

 

[NextYear67]

Is this a serious question lol

 

[Psych0dad]

Your 5v5 pts/60 argument was debunked so nice try And even then Wheelers production > Laines production.

No it wasn't, you have a really hard time keeping up don't you?

He tried to argue that Laine was regressing, he did not argue against what I said.

 

[elmaco]

31 GM's take Laine.

 

[cg98]

No it wasn't, you have a really hard time keeping up don't you?

He tried to argue that Laine was regressing, he did not argue against what I said.

If you bothered to keep up with anything you'd remeber that the guy literally gave you the numbers and disproved your argument

You: But Wheeler is actually worse in 5 on 5 production than Laine, even though he plays with the best center in the Jets by far

Teddy:
Might want to check that again
The past 2 season wheeler has better 5v5 Pts/60 than Laine
Wheeler
16/17 = 1.9
17/18 = 2.1
18/19 = 2.2
(increasing)
Laine
16/17 = 2.3
17/18 = 2.0
18/19 = 1.7
(decreasing)
One is getting better 5v5 while the other isn't.

You:
Might want to check? What? I did tell you the total, so what was wrong with it?
Yeah of course Laine is decreasing. He played in the 1st line with Scheifele in the first season for more than half of it. He lead the league in goals and had the highest points per game numbers from end of december to end of feb. Since then he has pretty much played 2nd line minutes with Brian Little. When ever he gets away from it, he has a productive explosion.
Laine isn't regressing. He is progressing as an individual but his usage has basically gotten worse over time. Because every single time he gets released from the handcuffs, he breaks the league and goes on a tear that rivals Gretzky. Like when Stastny came in. Or when he played with Scheifele.
Wheeler isn't getting better, this isn't opposite world where young people get physically worse and old people get physically better. Look behind the numbers, compare comparable circumstances (if you honestly are interested in seeing who performs best...if driving an agenda then there's never any honesty). Laine can pretty much double the 5 on 5 production of Wheeler, when given the same linemates. There's no question which one should play 1st. Unless you are trying to keep a player under wraps to get a sneaky low contract.

Teddy:
that fact that it is wrong
I showed you his 5v5 production is worse than Wheeler this season and last season.
This was your exact quote
"Wheeler is actually worse in 5 on 5 production than Laine, even though he plays with the best center in the Jets by far."

At no point did he argue that Laine was "regressing", you made the argument that Wheeler was worse than Laine at 5v5 and Teddy presented you the numbers that clearly disprove your argument. But yep, it's me who needs to keep up.

Back to the main point, as it currently stands Pastrnak > Laine today.

 

[Psych0dad]

If you bothered to keep up with anything you'd remeber that the guy literally gave you the numbers and disproved your argument

You: But Wheeler is actually worse in 5 on 5 production than Laine, even though he plays with the best center in the Jets by far

Teddy:
Might want to check that again
The past 2 season wheeler has better 5v5 Pts/60 than Laine
Wheeler
16/17 = 1.9
17/18 = 2.1
18/19 = 2.2
(increasing)
Laine
16/17 = 2.3
17/18 = 2.0
18/19 = 1.7
(decreasing)
One is getting better 5v5 while the other isn't.

You:
Might want to check? What? I did tell you the total, so what was wrong with it?
Yeah of course Laine is decreasing. He played in the 1st line with Scheifele in the first season for more than half of it. He lead the league in goals and had the highest points per game numbers from end of december to end of feb. Since then he has pretty much played 2nd line minutes with Brian Little. When ever he gets away from it, he has a productive explosion.
Laine isn't regressing. He is progressing as an individual but his usage has basically gotten worse over time. Because every single time he gets released from the handcuffs, he breaks the league and goes on a tear that rivals Gretzky. Like when Stastny came in. Or when he played with Scheifele.
Wheeler isn't getting better, this isn't opposite world where young people get physically worse and old people get physically better. Look behind the numbers, compare comparable circumstances (if you honestly are interested in seeing who performs best...if driving an agenda then there's never any honesty). Laine can pretty much double the 5 on 5 production of Wheeler, when given the same linemates. There's no question which one should play 1st. Unless you are trying to keep a player under wraps to get a sneaky low contract.

Teddy:
that fact that it is wrong
I showed you his 5v5 production is worse than Wheeler this season and last season.
This was your exact quote
"Wheeler is actually worse in 5 on 5 production than Laine, even though he plays with the best center in the Jets by far."

At no point did he argue that Laine was "regressing", you made the argument that Wheeler was worse than Laine at 5v5 and Teddy presented you the numbers that clearly disprove your argument. But yep, it's me who needs to keep up.

Back to the main point, as it currently stands Pastrnak > Laine today.

No they still don't even if you do not understand. Laine from start of career is 2.07 and Wheeler in same time frame 2.00.

What do you not get? What's difficult?

And he literally said one has been getting better and one hasnt, has decreased instead. If that doesn't mean "regressed", then I suggest a dictionary check on that.

 

[cg98]

No they still don't even if you do not understand. Laine from start of career is 2.07 and Wheeler in same time frame 2.00.

What do you not get? What's difficult?

And he literally said one has been getting better and one hasnt, has decreased instead. If that doesn't mean "regressed", then I suggest a dictionary check on that.

Even then Wheeler has produced more points and has more even strength points since Laine's career began. If he's outplaying and outproducing Laine, no one's going to take him off that top line RW spot until Laine improves his play and production. And no, Teddy didnt say Laine was "regressing" as a whole as you make it out to be. He was merely stating the fact that Laines even strength point production has gotten worse since his rookie season while Wheeler's even strength point production is getting better, it's not mine nor his fault that you're incompetent and refuse to believe in facts even when they're given to you.

 

[Psych0dad]

Even then Wheeler has produced more points and has more even strength points since Laine's career began. If he's outplaying and outproducing Laine, no one's going to take him off that top line RW spot until Laine improves his play and production. And no, Teddy didnt say Laine was "regressing" as a whole as you make it out to be. He was merely stating the fact that Laines even strength point production has gotten worse since his rookie season while Wheeler's even strength point production is getting better, it's not mine nor his fault that you're incompetent and refuse to believe in facts even when they're given to you.

This is pointless. You conflate and confuse the arguments without understanding their differences. And refuse to acknowledge it when directly pointed out to you. I'm done with this...uhhh...conversation?

 

[cg98]

This is pointless. You conflate and confuse the arguments without understanding their differences. And refuse to acknowledge it when directly pointed out to you. I'm done with this...uhhh...conversation?

This is literally what you do whenever someone calls you out and when facts are brought up to you so dont even go there.

Wheeler > Laine and more importantly Pastrnak > Laine.

 

[Psych0dad]

This is literally what you do whenever someone calls you out and when facts are brought up to you so dont even go there.

Wheeler > Laine and more importantly Pastrnak > Laine.

This is what I do when people don't understand the basics of argumentation. It makes for a very low quality conversation if we would all just confuse and conflate everyone elses arguments.

I'm not interested in pigeon chess.

 

[Boxscore]

Pastrnak is just a straight up better player.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

At this point Pastrnak is the better player. Laine has a long way to go close the gap in complete play. Could he get there? Sure, but he's not close at the moment.

 

[1972]

Pasta wouldn’t put up close to the numbers he does in a different situation

 

[Lambo]

Pastrnak = NHL and Laine = AHL