Pascal Vincent: Stay or Go?

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Doggy]

@KJ Dangler found this tweet but I figured I’d put it here too

My friend predicts it will be Bob Hartley. I don’t know if he saw it somewhere else or really came up with it on his own.

 

[punk_o_holic]

My friend predicts it will be Bob Hartley. I don’t know if he saw it somewhere else or really came up with it on his own.

Waddell giving Hartley a 2nd chance lol. Pretty sure they were together in Atlanta until Waddell fired him.

 

[Doggy]

Waddell giving Hartley a 2nd chance lol. Pretty sure they were together in Atlanta until Waddell fired him.

Personally after the Babcock debacle I’m not sure the team has enough goodwill to bring Hartley in. He has a reputation as a real prick.

 

[koteka]

At least we should be able to do some background checks.

“Yegor, got a quick question for you. Did Hartley ever ask to check out your phone?”

“No. In America coach checks out phone. In Russia phone checks out North American hockey coach.”

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Hartley has a history with a current Jackets player?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Hartley has a history with a current Jackets player?

Believe he was Chinakhov’s coach in the KHL

 

[majormajor]

Believe he was Chinakhov’s coach in the KHL

And he was correct that Chinakhov wasn't NHL ready enough.

 

[Cowumbus]

And he was correct that Chinakhov wasn't NHL ready enough.

He also coached Johnny Hockey for 2 years.

 

[VT]

Believe he was Chinakhov’s coach in the KHL

The important thing is that he has experience with Russian hockey, he knows players' mentality. He not only won the Gagarin Cup, but also Avangard played in the finals under him.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Hartley was my top choice before Babcock. The things this team needs are no different today than they were a year ago. He's won at every level and he holds players accountable. Assuming he's eager to get back in the fight after some time off, I'd be all for it.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Yea, Hartley would be great. After the Babcock fiasco, I’d like nothing more than a second shot at adding a guy who’s been out of the league for many years.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Hartley's got a very impressive coaching resume. He's won Championships in the QMJHL, AHL, NHL, Russia and in Europe. His last two NHL teams were not highly successful. Atlanta was probably a lost cause. Don't know about Calgary.

Would be a huge step up from the current placeholder I would think. Would probably be amenable to a short term low money deal as well.

Bob Hartley Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Records of Bob Hartley, a hockey coach from Hawkesbury, ONT born Sep 9 1960 who was active from 1991 to 2022.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Hartley has a history with a current Jackets player?

Believe he was Chinakhov’s coach in the KHL

He was also coach of the Latvian National Team.

 

[Sdrawkcab321]

This team needs a prick as a coach after the last couple years of no accountability. Hartley has an unimpressive résumé but this would be the direction to go in.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Not really adding much but figured I’d post regardless

 

[cbjthrowaway]

This team needs a prick as a coach after the last couple years of no accountability. Hartley has an unimpressive résumé but this would be the direction to go in.

this was the entire justification for going with babcock and it blew up in their faces. it's also a misnomer as being a prick isn't the only way to hold players accountable.

they need someone who can teach and implement a system that maximizes the roster they have while also establishing a culture that the players buy into. there's a broader spectrum of candidates who fit that mold who aren't just prickish dinosaurs.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The longer the GM/PHOPs search goes, the more likely I think it is Vincent stays. It's typically harder to find a new coach the later you go, Bednar/Colorado excepted of course.

I don't know that this team can handle a new GM, potentially new PHOPs, and a new head coach all together. Vincent's last year on his deal feels like a "show me" year, but what do I know.

I would, however, like to see Steve McCarthy replaced. And given the putrid PP, I'm indifferent about Recchi.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

The longer the GM/PHOPs search goes, the more likely I think it is Vincent stays. It's typically harder to find a new coach the later you go, Bednar/Colorado excepted of course.

counterpoint:

1. based on everything we know, the waddell announcement is imminent.
2. even if he eventually hires a GM, we can safely assume that the coaching stuff will be his first order of business (buyout window is a few weeks away)
3. some GM + head coach candidates are with teams that are still playing (NHL/AHL playoffs, memorial cup)

there shouldn't be a shortage of candidates for either position, but reading the tea leaves it seems like a HC decision will happen very quickly under waddell.

I don't know that this team can handle a new GM, potentially new PHOPs, and a new head coach all together. Vincent's last year on his deal feels like a "show me" year, but what do I know.

i think a new battery of decision-makers in those position makes more sense than keeping the guy who lost over 70% of his games last year and wasn't the top choice in either of the last two coaching searches.

sometimes a change at the top can benefit from institutional knowledge/stability in management positions, but aside from CBJ's analytics infrastructure and amateur scouting there's not much benefit from keeping folks in place from the previous regime, given how the last few years went.

I would, however, like to see Steve McCarthy replaced. And given the putrid PP, I'm indifferent about Recchi.

the easy rationale for replacing both of them is simply that a new HC shouldn't be shackled to the previous regime's assistants, even if mccarthy generally did okay.

that said, recchi's performance is fireable on its own imo. he was brought in to do two things:

1. get more out of the star players (especially the young ones) as a former star himself
2. run the power play

what they got instead were career-worst seasons from gaudreau and laine, regression from KJ and a league-worst power play.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

the easy rationale for replacing both of them is simply that a new HC shouldn't be shackled to the previous regime's assistants, even if mccarthy generally did okay.

It also rarely goes well for upper management/ownership to tell a head coach to fire assistants so new ones, albeit ideally better ones, can be hired. So, while there seems to be mixed feelings here about Pascal, there doesn't seem to be about the work of his assistants. And (usually) the most straightforward way to get new assistants is to get a new head coach.

 

[Monstershockey]

what they got instead were career-worst seasons from gaudreau and laine, regression from KJ and a league-worst power play.

None of this, except the overall power play, but even that has stayed bad after they have changed coaches, may have anything to do with coaching. Laine's issues are much bigger than the coaching, for all we know, Gaudreau just had an off year, and who knows whose idea it was to bring Johnson back after only 10 games in the AHL.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

None of this, except the overall power play, but even that has stayed bad after they have changed coaches, may have anything to do with coaching. Laine's issues are much bigger than the coaching, for all we know, Gaudreau just had an off year, and who knows whose idea it was to bring Johnson back after only 10 games in the AHL.

the "X wasn't his fault" stuff isn't a strong enough justification to keep a guy when the results were as bad as they are and there are clear better options out there.

there were a lot of things last year that weren't pascal vincent's fault, but he still performed worse than desired even after factoring those things in. same with recchi – whatever actual work he did didn't provide enough value to overlook failures that weren't entirely his fault.

good coaches adapt to challenges and put their players in a position to succeed. even considering extenuating circumstances, vincent and recchi didn't do that.

 

[Monstershockey]

the "X wasn't his fault" stuff isn't a strong enough justification to keep a guy when the results were as bad as they are and there are clear better options out there.

there were a lot of things last year that weren't pascal vincent's fault, but he still performed worse than desired even after factoring those things in. same with recchi – whatever actual work he did didn't provide enough value to overlook failures that weren't entirely his fault.

good coaches adapt to challenges and put their players in a position to succeed. even considering extenuating circumstances, vincent and recchi didn't do that.

I am not trying to justify him staying, he wasn't the guy when they hired him, and he isn't the guy now.

I don't know what you were expecting from last year's team, but they weren't going to all of a sudden be world beaters with an experienced coach. There was some improvement over last year, and that was with a struggling Gaudreau, and not having a PPG Laine for over 50 games.

You can blame what you want on Vincent, and I am not saying he is this great coach or anything, but last year's team showed a little improvement, and given the BS before the season started, I think Vincent did the best he could.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I don't know what you were expecting from last year's team, but they weren't going to all of a sudden be world beaters with an experienced coach.

what i didn't expect was for them to more or less stay the same (last place in points and goal differential in the east and a +7 improvement in points) despite having relatively better injury luck and a stronger roster overall (added fantilli, voronkov, severson, provorov).

You can blame what you want on Vincent, and I am not saying he is this great coach or anything, but last year's team showed a little improvement, and given the BS before the season started, I think Vincent did the best he could.

the improvement they did show (read: marginal) is ultimately meaningless given how low the previous team set the bar.

it is, in fact, so meaningless that improving by the same amount (7 points) next season would still almost certainly put them in last place in the eastern conference (73 points – montreal was second worst with 76 points this year)

 

[majormajor]

Dean Evason is still out there. I don't know too much about him but his record with Minnesota was great for a supposedly mid roster.