Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore (UPD #443ff 14-Dec agenda/lease links)

[Whileee]

No mystery now about why Hulsizer is smiling.

Congrats to the loyal Coyotes fans. You owe the City of Glendale a lot. I hope this translates into a revived fan base and future success for the franchise.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Glendale doesnt own the land- it is owned by Westgate, the development owned by Steve Ellman. Sorry Glendale doesnt own a single parking space in the area so that is how they can buy the rights

So then why isn't the $100 million going to Ellman?

 

[AllByDesign]

Hockey is wonderful, no one should have to live without it.

Amen, praise Bobby Orr...

 

[Acesolid]

It's been asked a few times but I have yet to see an answer. How can the COG pay $100 million to buy something that it already owns?

It's the legal loophole Glendale must have been searching for these last months.

They are not giving away 100 millions in subsidies to the Coyotes.

No, they are ''selling'' something. So nobody can sue the Glendale for breaking laws!


The only thing I can say is:

Congratulation Bettman, it took you 2 years of league ownership, hurt the leagues reputation, cost a fortune in lawyer salaries, diverted cash from teams like the hurricanes and Atlanta that really could have used it, and made you even more hated by everyone in Canada, but you did it!


Yay!

 

[ATHF]

So if Westgate owns the land... whos getting the $100M for parking rights?

That's what makes no sense...they're paying the new owner for the parking when he doesn't own the parking lots, the arena, the airspace around the building or anything even remotely resembling any of it. They barely even tried to hide the fact that they're stopping just short of writing the guy a blank check to keep their mistake of a building "full" for 41 extra nights a year.

Like I said earlier, turn that place into a casino, Glendale wouldn't owe a dime more than what they've already sunk into the place and they could make a killing drawing in visitors from all over the area to the casino and to Westgate while not boning the actual residents of the city...

 

[Snarky Coyote]

The Coyotes, who currently hold those rights and pay the city of glendale a ticket surcharge in order to provide free parking. When they coyotes moved to glendale the owner Ellman also owned the coyotes. This is why the Coyotes have these rights to sell

 

[Snarky Coyote]

That's what makes no sense...they're paying the new owner for the parking when he doesn't own the parking lots, the arena, the airspace around the building or anything even remotely resembling any of it. They barely even tried to hide the fact that they're stopping just short of writing the guy a blank check to keep their mistake of a building "full" for 41 extra nights a year.

Like I said earlier, turn that place into a casino, Glendale wouldn't owe a dime more than what they've already sunk into the place and they could make a killing drawing in visitors from all over the area to the casino and to Westgate while not boning the actual residents of the city...

Casino gambling isnt legal here. The only casinos here are on tribal indian land which under US law is considered a sovergn nation

 

[kdb209]

That's what makes no sense...they're paying the new owner for the parking when he doesn't own the parking lots, the arena, the airspace around the building or anything even remotely resembling any of it. They barely even tried to hide the fact that they're stopping just short of writing the guy a blank check to keep their mistake of a building "full" for 41 extra nights a year.

Like I said earlier, turn that place into a casino, Glendale wouldn't owe a dime more than what they've already sunk into the place and they could make a killing drawing in visitors from all over the area to the casino and to Westgate while not boning the actual residents of the city...

AIUI, the lots at the Arena were owned by the city, but the operating rights were owned by the team/arena management co.

 

[pucka lucka]

So where'd the per ticket parking surcharge go? Why did goto CoG before? If none of the other negotiations included this magic $100m why? I thought the gift clause was pretty clear on attempting these kinds of things.

Maybe one of the more numbery types here can fiddle with the numbers and compare the net benefit of the Coyotes under this deal vs the last lease.

 

[pucka lucka]

AIUI, the lots at the Arena were owned by the city, but the operating rights were owned by the team/arena management co.

Ok, so they are paying $100m + ($2.75(i think) * total tickets sold? How does that work? How does that pass the gift clause sniff test? This is fascinating.

 

[NHLfan4life]

That's what makes no sense...they're paying the new owner for the parking when he doesn't own the parking lots, the arena, the airspace around the building or anything even remotely resembling any of it. They barely even tried to hide the fact that they're stopping just short of writing the guy a blank check to keep their mistake of a building "full" for 41 extra nights a year.

Like I said earlier, turn that place into a casino, Glendale wouldn't owe a dime more than what they've already sunk into the place and they could make a killing drawing in visitors from all over the area to the casino and to Westgate while not boning the actual residents of the city...

Too Late for recommendations...The 'Yotes are staying. Probably not much more speculating.
We will take care of the Coyotes...I will be purchasing season tickets. 3 seats at Jobing.com. We will once again be able to enjoy our own professional hockey team.

((Fat lady warms up in the background))

 

[OthmarAmmann]

The Coyotes, who currently hold those rights and pay the city of glendale a ticket surcharge in order to provide free parking. When they coyotes moved to glendale the owner Ellman also owned the coyotes.

I figured it was something like that. $100mm is some premium parking. Kinda like the DOD paying $10,000 for a toilet seat or hammer or whatever.

If the city is picking up the tab for arena management, isn't this pretty much the same as the building sitting vacant, except that they're also giving somebody $100 mm? The costs of mothballing would likely be less than operating too.

 

[ATHF]

AIUI, the lots at the Arena were owned by the city, but the operating rights were owned by the team/arena management co.

So why would that not fall under the 17 mil they're planning on paying per year to the ownership for the "arena management" that they'll be doing? If the arena management company or the team owns the rights, that would already be under their umbrella.

The whole thing reeks to high hell and if the city wants to deal with the devil like that, they deserve what they're going to get. Either this thing works (unlikely at best) or the entire city will be a ghost town buried under a flood or red ink.

 

[RR]

 

[Snarky Coyote]

AIUI, the lots at the Arena were owned by the city, but the operating rights were owned by the team/arena management co.

Fair enough, what I should have said is that the city doesnt control a single space. And Westgate owns the spaces and land on its lots, the City might own some of the land used for the Cardnals stadium where a lot of the STH park

 

[Snarky Coyote]

So why would that not fall under the 17 mil they're planning on paying per year to the ownership for the "arena management" that they'll be doing? If the arena management company or the team owns the rights, that would already be under their umbrella.

The whole thing reeks to high hell and if the city wants to deal with the devil like that, they deserve what they're going to get. Either this thing works (unlikely at best) or the entire city will be a ghost town buried under a flood or red ink.

I still do not understand why you care about this. Based on previos posts my belief is that you do not live here. Your not affectd if it all goes boom. If its that you dont feel arizona deserves a team lets agree to disagree. I just dont understan how the point you are making is relevant.

 

[jamwires]

It's been asked a few times but I have yet to see an answer. How can the COG pay $100 million to buy something that it already owns?

Shhhhh....

 

[ATHF]

Too Late for recommendations...The 'Yotes are staying. Probably not much more speculating.
We will take care of the Coyotes...I will be purchasing season tickets. 3 seats at Jobing.com. We will once again be able to enjoy our own professional hockey team.

((Fat lady warms up in the background))

Frankly, I could care less if they move or not. In the grand scheme of things, it pretty much has zero effect on my life. I just don't understand how a group of elected officials can sell their own constituents down the river and try to tell them it's a cruise.

As an aside, I notice that most of the people who are Coyote fans don't live within Glendale proper and as such don't seem to care that the city will be paying out obscene amounts of money to subsidize professional sports. I guess as long as some other city that I don't care about was willing to kill itself off for my entertainment, I'd be pretty happy too...

 

[Faltorvo]

AIUI, the lots at the Arena were owned by the city, but the operating rights were owned by the team/arena management co.

So why doesn't ownership then just charge for parking and selling ADV rights and all?

 

[cbcwpg]

I figured it was something like that. $100mm is some premium parking. Kinda like the DOD paying $10,000 for a toilet seat or hammer or whatever.

Fishy is the word. If the parking was really worth $100M, why wouldn't Hulsizer have kept it and raised the $100M himself? Sounds like the CoG is paying a "little" bit to much for the parking. nudge nudge

 

[Snarky Coyote]

Shhhhh....

Its been answered a few times too

 

[OthmarAmmann]

I wonder it Husizer's bankers are going to underwrite the city's bond issue.

 

[AllByDesign]

I agree with RR... Eat some chips and drink a coke, I won't have satisfaction until the ink is dry and GWI has made the sign of the cross. Speaking of that, my spiced rum needs a re-fillin'. Who's got the next round? Looks like the COG is buying...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

This is exactly like the "Pyramid Schemes" they can't just give money they need to have a product

This product is Parking Spaces? sounds sketchy to me

 

[Wham City]

Beer and pills eh? I don't think you're the only one who'll be medicating themselves to stomach this deal.

Does anyone know where the COG"s obligation to fund losses stands in the face of this new proposal.