Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?

[Fidel Astro]

Where we stand -
1. On Jan 1, the NHL can entertain relocation offers.

The NHL can entertain relocation offers at any time. They can have a deal totally worked out with an outside buyer prior to Jan. 1...the team just can't be officially sold before then.

What I think is going on is that Hulsizer and the NHL are in some pretty stressful negotiations. Hulsizer might be strongarming the NHL to lower the sales price as he knows that the NHL really does want the team to stay in Phoenix.

Either that or the NHL has already worked out a deal with TNSE behind the scenes and is just waiting for the clock to run out on Phoenix. There is a possibility that the NHL has given up on Phoenix (for now...a number of people have suggested they could get an expansion team shortly after the Coyotes leave) and is biding its time before signing the relocation papers to Winnipeg.

 

[aj8000]

Yes, if I recall correctly, any CFD contribution is up to the property owner -- i.e., Elman. I'm not sure the property owner could pass that on to the tenants without their agreement, unless such additional special 'tax' or surcharge is allowed for under the existing leases.

GHOST

I think they could since it would be a common area charge and the lease would allow the landlord to pass the proratta portion onto the tenant.

No different then if they painted the place, the R&M would be charged to the tenants.

 

[Wham City]

Tomorrow?

The transaction is initiated on 15th. The NHL submits it's proof of losses for the month on the 15th, and after review they are free to withdraw from the escrow starting on the 18th of each month.

 

[Killion]

There is a possibility that the NHL has given up on Phoenix (for now...a number of people have suggested they could get an expansion team shortly after the Coyotes leave) and is biding its time before signing the relocation papers to Winnipeg.

If your speculation is accurate, why then would Hulsizer deposit $25M into escrow & why would Daly provide false hope statements from Prague when asked about the situation in Glendale as recently as October 9th?. I love a good Conspiracy Theory, in fact, probably more than most, and ya, I've even authored a few naughty but this one doesnt quite add up. I do believe the NHL has a plan in place and a deal in principal with TNSE, but to expect a 3rd party prospective owner to tie-up capitol like that?. What for?. Why?. He's last man standing by all accounts & it really wasnt neccessary had he been hardballing either Glendale or the NHL.
Are you suggesting Hulsizer is party to some nefarious plan whereby he's a Strawman promised an expansion franchise back into Glendale "15 minutes" after the teams relo'd to Winnipeg?. Thats why the $25M?. I admit, I'm liking it, just cant see it as being real though Fidel, even though the league did pull a similar stunt in St. Louis in 1983 according to rumor.

 

[Fidel Astro]

Then transaction is initiated on 15th. The NHL submits it's proof of losses for the month on the 15th, and after review they are free to withdraw from the escrow starting on the 18th of each month.

Does anyone know whether they've withdrawn money yet (for September?) and if yes, how much?

 

[Killion]

Does anyone know whether they've withdrawn money yet (for September?) and if yes, how much?

No. They have not. Media outlets & GW are keeping an eye on it visa-vie the Freedom of Information Act. I wouldnt expect the league to draw on the funds until such time as all avenues to a local sale are extinguished, sometime in the new year.

 

[aj8000]

Where we stand -
1. On Jan 1, the NHL can entertain relocation offers.
2. Hulsizer put 25 million dollars up as a deposit on the team.
3. Scruggs, aside from being an idiot, has stated that there is an agreement between COG and Hulsizer in principle.
4. Scruggs said that it is now up to the NHL.

That much is out there.

What I think is going on is that Hulsizer and the NHL are in some pretty stressful negotiations. Hulsizer might be strongarming the NHL to lower the sales price as he knows that the NHL really does want the team to stay in Phoenix.

I do not think you are that far off on what is going on; however, whether he can strong arm the NHL remains to be seen and if an agreement in principle with the COG actually means anything since they appear to be prone to changing the rules on agreements in principle.

 

[BigBadBread]

So are there any interesting dates between now and Dec 31th? Or is it just up to someone to decide on it at any time? CoG said that it was "in the hands" of the NHL. I guess that might mean approving Hulsizer as an owner?

Whats the next step?

 

[Whileee]

So are there any interesting dates between now and Dec 31th? Or is it just up to someone to decide on it at any time? CoG said that it was "in the hands" of the NHL. I guess that might mean approving Hulsizer as an owner?

Whats the next step?

I don't think that anyone not intimately connected to the discussions really knows what the next step is.

My guess is that Hulsizer now understands the parameters of the lease agreement with the City of Glendale, and is now discussing, or has already discussed the terms of sale with the NHL.

I think that the next meaningful public information will either confirm that the sides are close to a Glendale sale, or indicate that Hulsizer has withdrawn. If things are moving to a successful conclusion, I suppose that we could hear about that any day. If things aren't panning out, we might not hear anything for months, unless it leaks earlier. At this point, I think that all signs suggest that there are no other serious ownership bidders for a Glendale sale.

 

[Whileee]

No. They have not. Media outlets & GW are keeping an eye on it visa-vie the Freedom of Information Act. I wouldnt expect the league to draw on the funds until such time as all avenues to a local sale are extinguished, sometime in the new year.

This makes sense, but I wonder if the agreement between Glendale and the NHL permits the NHL to draw on the escrow account retroactively to recoup losses from previous months. The way it is worded suggests that they need to make a claim each month for the previous month's losses (with the exception of September, which would include the July and August losses).

 

[Fidel Astro]

If your speculation is accurate...

I'm not saying it is accurate, but I'm definitely not the first one to suggest it.

...why then would Hulsizer deposit $25M into escrow & why would Daly provide false hope statements from Prague when asked about the situation in Glendale as recently as October 9th?

Hulsizer deposited the $25M because he thinks he has a chance to buy the team. I'm not saying the NHL is going to turn down a legitimate buyer in Phoenix. I'm saying I think they're happy to have a Plan B (Winnipeg) in their back pocket, since Plan A doesn't have a lot of time left, and they're not going to go any further out of their way to accomodate the people who are trying to make Plan A happen.

That doesn't mean they're 100% gung-ho about moving the team to Winnipeg, but they're not exactly confident the Glendale stuff is going to work out, and they're waiting out the clock. It's just a theory, though.

Daly hasn't exactly given 'false hope' statements. He's said the same thing the NHL has said all along: the potential for a local owner in AZ is being worked on, there's no news yet, but the NHL is optimistic the situation will be resolved. That's a far cry from saying "this team is going to stay in Phoenix for sure." In fact, Bettman's recent comments on the subject have been pretty much 'relocation isn't ideal, but if it has to happen, it'll happen.' Again, not a lot of confidence there.

I love a good Conspiracy Theory, in fact, probably more than most, and ya, I've even authored a few naughty but this one doesnt quite add up. I do believe the NHL has a plan in place and a deal in principal with TNSE, but to expect a 3rd party prospective owner to tie-up capitol like that?. What for?. Why?. He's last man standing by all accounts & it really wasnt neccessary had he been hardballing either Glendale or the NHL.

The NHL didn't ask Hulsizer to put up the $25 million. Again, with this scenario (which could be totally false), the league isn't actively hoping for the Coyotes to move, they're just sitting back and watching the clock run down. They have made a number of comments indicating the ball's in Glendale's court at this point.

Also, until Dec. 31, the NHL is expected to continue trying 'everything possible' to keep the team in its current location. So they're not going to shut down any potential buyers while the clock is still running, but they're not going to actively assist the buyer or make anything easier for him (i.e. lowering the price) either. They're going to just sit back and watch whatever happens happen, knowing they can sell the team immediately as of Jan. 1 if they choose to (assuming they already have a deal worked out with TNSE).

Are you suggesting Hulsizer is party to some nefarious plan whereby he's a Strawman promised an expansion franchise back into Glendale "15 minutes" after the teams relo'd to Winnipeg?. Thats why the $25M?. I admit, I'm liking it, just cant see it as being real though Fidel, even though the league did pull a similar stunt in St. Louis in 1983 according to rumor.

I had never even thought of Hulsizer being promised an expansion team, but that's an interesting idea. The scenario I was thinking of was (and again, I have no proof that this is what's happening) that Hulsizer is trying to buy the team because the NHL is still bound by the 'do everything possible' stuff and the team cannot, at present, be legally relocated. However, the league has given up on putting in any extra effort toward keeping the team in Arizona and, once the clock runs out and the deal still hasn't been struck down there, will happily sell the team to Chipman and Thomson, guilt-free.

 

[MaskedSonja]

First off, Kudos to Cheswick for that information


I don't feel comfortable with Daly's and Bettman's "uncomfortable" vibes when talking about the Coyotes. I mean, if there was some real progress moving forward, they'd be talking it up (and we of course would still speculate whether it's true ) and trying to get positive info out there so people will buy tickets.

Maybe they're just taking the side of extreme caution and "don't want to get anyone's hopes up".

This whole 25 million, it's the number: If Hulz had put down 35 million, 50 million, even 10 million-we wouldn't debating whether it has to do with the NHL amount-but the exact number of 25 million just seems so coincidental.

A couple of posters have mentioned about the franchise value hit of selling the Yotes for a lower number-and that's my thought too-the BoG are not going to be interested in selling the Yotes for (IMO) less than the announced amount, because it hurts their values if they want to sell their franchise-that's why I'd REALLY be surprised to see them drop the price.

Someone mentioned the 25 Mil-instant expansion Franchise (looking at you Killion )idea, and that has some interesting, if tinfoil hat, merit (St. Louis 1983 all over again....) (EDIT: Fidel you posted while I was writing this! lol)

Also be interesting to see the party wanting a team in Quebec's reaction to that type of "switcheroo"

 

[Fidel Astro]

I don't feel comfortable with Daly's and Bettman's "uncomfortable" vibes when talking about the Coyotes. I mean, if there was some real progress moving forward, they'd be talking it up (and we of course would still speculate whether it's true ) and trying to get positive info out there so people will buy tickets.

This is part of the reason why I think they're just sitting back and waiting to see what happens like everyone else. They have Plan B in their pockets, waiting to be signed if we pass Dec. 31, so there's no pressure on them to get the deal done.

 

[Killion]

The way it is worded suggests that they need to make a claim each month for the previous month's losses (with the exception of September, which would include the July and August losses).

Thats interesting. They cant sit on it & retroactively bill Glendale or dip into the account later on?. Has to be done monthly?. Seems like their are quite a few ways you could get around that clause.

I had never even thought of Hulsizer being promised an expansion team, but that's an interesting idea.

I'm full of them, but I'm trying to live an "infraction free" existence here on hf.

Someone mentioned the 25 Mil-instant expansion Franchise (looking at you Killion )idea, and that has some interesting, if tinfoil hat, merit (St. Louis 1983 all over again)....

Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to pick some up the other day. Not that I need it. Just makes me feel special is all....

 

[jamwires]

This is part of the reason why I think they're just sitting back and waiting to see what happens like everyone else. They have Plan B in their pockets, waiting to be signed if we pass Dec. 31, so there's no pressure on them to get the deal done.

I subscribe to the same overall theory.

 

[Whileee]

Are you suggesting Hulsizer is party to some nefarious plan whereby he's a Strawman promised an expansion franchise back into Glendale "15 minutes" after the teams relo'd to Winnipeg?. Thats why the $25M?. I admit, I'm liking it, just cant see it as being real though Fidel, even though the league did pull a similar stunt in St. Louis in 1983 according to rumor.

Breathtaking... (even if far-fetched).

Tie in the TNSE bid with Hulsizer's deal. TNSE gets the Coyotes, or an expansion franchise, the NHL uses the money from TNSE to make sure that Hulsizer gets a team in Glendale for a manageable sum, $25 million goes back to Glendale for their losses this year, and everyone is happy. Maybe TNSE pays a bit less, but the NHL still gets more because they also get Hulsizer's investment. Glendale gets everything they could have expected, and more. In fact, they might need to put up a statue of Chipman and Thomson (the TNSE owners) near the fountains at Westgate for enabling Glendale to keep the Coyotes and preserve the $25 million this year.

 

[selkie]

Since it seems like franchises, like nuns of old, travel and arrive in pairs, would a brand new Phoenix/Winnipeg franchise mean they'd also add a Las Vegas/Kansas City team and then move Detroit back to the Eastern Conference in the name of keeping Eastern and Western equally balanced? (considering the long-standing rumors about how Illich was promised during the last realignment that Detroit would be the next team moved to the East if anyone did, it would be probably be them instead of Columbus)

 

[pucka lucka]

So why again does the NHL have any interest in Hulsizer?

 

[Scottrocks58*]

So why again does the NHL have any interest in Hulsizer?

Because to the consternation of most here, the NHL wants very badly to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix. It had ample opportunity to move the team after it beat down Balsisllie.

 

[Whileee]

So why again does the NHL have any interest in Hulsizer?

Because he's shown an interest in buying the franchise that they want to sell?

 

[Killion]

Breathtaking... (even if far-fetched).

Yepp. The old Ralston Purina-NHL-Harry Ornest Missouri Shuffle. Its in the playbook. Why not use it?.

 

[pucka lucka]

Because he's shown an interest in buying the franchise that they want to sell?

So that's all it takes? All i've read is that some dude, who the NHL has never acknowledged publicly, with no publicly verified wealth, could be interested in the Coyotes.

What's he worth (sources)? What does he bring to the table that could possibly make the NHL work in Glendale? He's certainly no Vinik.

 

[Whileee]

So that's all it takes? All i've read is that some dude, who the NHL has never acknowledged publicly, with no publicly verified wealth, could be interested in the Coyotes.

What's he worth (sources)? What does he bring to the table that could possibly make the NHL work in Glendale? He's certainly no Vinik.

I suppose that these are questions that the NHL has been pursuing. He is also presumably the person who has reached an agreement in principle on a lease with the City of Glendale, which is another of the NHL's requirements. I think that we will find out in due course if he is willing to buy the team on the terms offered by Glendale and the NHL, and if so, whether he is acceptable to the NHL and its BOG. In any case, he does seem to be the only active option for a Glendale sale just now.

 

[Vanier Park]

Latest bid to buy Coyotes stalls

There is a new article on the Phoenix situation in the Globe and Mail:

Matthew Hulsizer’s bid to buy the Phoenix Coyotes from the NHL has stalled because the Chicago businessman wants a big discount on the $165-million (all currency U.S.) the league wants for the team, two sources say. This, the sources add, is despite the fact Hulsizer, 40, has an agreement in principle with the city of Glendale, Ariz., on a multiyear arena lease that could pay him $100-million toward the Coyotes’ annual losses through parking charges, taxes and property levies from a community-facilities district created around Jobing.com arena.

A third source, an NHL governor, said Hulsizer was told at least a month ago that Bettman will never agree to sell the franchise for less than what the entire Coyotes’ debacle has cost the league. The NHL could have as much as $175-million invested now, since it covered the Coyotes’ losses through this summer. Glendale agreed to cover up to $25-million of this season’s losses beginning Sept. 1 in order to keep the NHL from selling the team sooner than the end of the year.

The NHL governor said many of his peers are not keen on seeing the Coyotes return to Winnipeg, which they left in 1996. But if the alternative is that each team owner has to write a big cheque to cover the NHL’s losses on the Coyotes, “we will go to Winnipeg,” the governor said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...est-bid-to-buy-coyotes-stalls/article1757924/

 

[Puckschmuck*]

^ Dammit, you beat me!