Value of: Panarin

[x Tame Impala]

If the Hawks can't afford him this offseason and they decide to trade him as an RFA. What ya got?

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[Mad Brills*]

Why would they?

Dump Kruger and Anisimov.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Why would they?

Dump Kruger and Anisimov.

Easier said than done.

 

[as15]

Easier said than done.

This isn't Bickell we are talking about. Legitimate, defensively responsible middle-6 centers on decent contracts aren't the hardest players to move.

 

[Mad Brills*]

AA has a NMC, but yes, dumping kruger onto a stupid gm is very possible.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

They can definitely move Kruger and Anisimov. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I want Panarin in a Hawks sweater for a long time, obviously. But it would be interesting to see the package teams can put together for him. Hawks are hosting the draft next year, so I could see them going for a top 10 pick + if he really wants 8m per year off the bat.

 

[bleedblue1223]

This isn't Bickell we are talking about. Legitimate, defensively responsible middle-6 centers on decent contracts aren't the hardest players to move.

I love Kruger, but he's a 4th liner. Probably the best 4th liner in the game, but still not a legitimate 3rd liner on a regular team IMO.

I do like Anisimov, but ~40 point centers can be easily found, the demand for trading for one, won't be huge.

Chicago will find a way to keep Panarin, but it wouldn't be wise to just assume they can just avoid the real risk by just dumping some other players. If Panarin wants 6ish, then they can definitely figure it out, if he wants 7.5+, then they have some decisions to make.

 

[SEALBound]

I think there are teams out there that would take Anisimov...but damn what does that leave the Hawks with?

 

[Mad Brills*]

I think there are teams out there that would take Anisimov...but damn what does that leave the Hawks with?

sign sam gagner...

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think there are teams out there that would take Anisimov...but damn what does that leave the Hawks with?

Exactly, they'd become very top heavy, and if Hossa isn't on LTIR, then him and Seabrook will weigh them down, and if Toews doesn't offensive produce to his contract, then they could have some very serious depth issues.

 

[HawkeyFanatic]

They have bonuses of 3M coming off the books - plus Scuderi retained of 1.1M coming off the books.

Then you have Kruger at 3M that you can get rid off. You say team wouldn't want him, and maybe that's true but with Vegas coming in, he might be gone as soon as next year.

And Anisimov is a 4M center - by no means is he a Bickell.


That being said - what could Chicago get for him?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Hawks can clear up a bunch of cap space if they get rid of Anisimov/Kruger and LTIR Hossa (which I think is a possibility after next year when his salary goes to $1m per). Then you have Scuderi retained money coming off the books and obviously the bonuses will be gone. Factor in 1-2m in cap growth and thats a decent amount of cap space.

But that is not what this thread is about (keeping Breadman), but what would a package look like. If he puts up another 70-80 point season then it will be a haul imo.

 

[SEALBound]

Exactly, they'd become very top heavy, and if Hossa isn't on LTIR, then him and Seabrook will weigh them down, and if Toews doesn't offensive produce to his contract, then they could have some very serious depth issues.

They are running into the issues the Penguins ran into when Sid and Geno both got 8.7mil.

Toews needs linemates to produce. He's not an offensive force by himself. The decline of Hossa = the decline of Toews. And they've given away several picks and prospects. Who the heck goes with Toews to help prop him up?

If Anisimov goes, does that affect Panarin and Kane? The way it seems, if they lose Anisimov, you may as well run Panarin-Toews-Kane and become a one line team.

 

[SEALBound]

Hawks can clear up a bunch of cap space if they get rid of Anisimov/Kruger and LTIR Hossa (which I think is a possibility after next year when his salary goes to $1m per). Then you have Scuderi retained money coming off the books and obviously the bonuses will be gone. Factor in 1-2m in cap growth and thats a decent amount of cap space.

But that is not what this thread is about (keeping Breadman), but what would a package look like. If he puts up another 70-80 point season then it will be a haul imo.

Indeed, I could easily see a 6x6 similar to what Forsberg got.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

They are running into the issues the Penguins ran into when Sid and Geno both got 8.7mil.

Toews needs linemates to produce. He's not an offensive force by himself. The decline of Hossa = the decline of Toews. And they've given away several picks and prospects. Who the heck goes with Toews to help prop him up?

If Anisimov goes, does that affect Panarin and Kane? The way it seems, if they lose Anisimov, you may as well run Panarin-Toews-Kane and become a one line team.

This year I think the guy that will go with Toews is Nick Schmaltz. Panarin might be a guy they slot up with JT if they think Kane can produce with anyone, which he has shown he can. I think they'll go with this. A lot of question marks with rookies, but given how much they improved their D by signing Campbell and Kempny, they'll probably lean on them and Crawford to squeak out games early and find the right combos up front. And then they still have some assets at D like Pokka that they can move for help up front, and some cap space (I think they have around 2m atm), so they'll probably roll rookies to start and see what they have then make a move at TDL for help.

Panik-Toews-Schmaltz
Panarin-Anisimov-Kane
Motte-Kruger-Hossa
Desi-Hinostroza-Hartman

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Indeed, I could easily see a 6x6 similar to what Forsberg got.

I'd be ecstatic if this is what he takes.

 

[ThatSaid]

We're a cap-strapped team, but its not like we don't get some breathing room next year when Scuds is gone and our bonuses clear. Brian Campbell may not want to re-sign at such a friendly deal, and maybe Forsling/Pokka come up to fill his spot. Little bit of savings there.

Kruger is totally movable, even if not for much. Who knows what kind of salary moves in the expansion draft as well. Hossa might go on LTIR if he has another meh season this year.

Basically, I don't think we'll need to move Panarin.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'd be ecstatic if this is what he takes.

I could see the Hawks going for that number, Panarin going for Tarasenko money, and possibly meeting closer to the middle at $7 million. Definitely doable, and can be done in the short-term with the bonus overage going away and Scuderi off the books, but long-term cap health would still be hurt. Hossa on LTIR is not a given, since in previous cases, it was obvious the players could play anymore, but Hossa shows that he can play, so unless something changes, it's sort of uncharted territory.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Just give him 10 million like everyone else on the team.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I could see the Hawks going for that number, Panarin going for Tarasenko money, and possibly meeting closer to the middle at $7 million. Definitely doable, and can be done in the short-term with the bonus overage going away and Scuderi off the books, but long-term cap health would still be hurt. Hossa on LTIR is not a given, since in previous cases, it was obvious the players could play anymore, but Hossa shows that he can play, so unless something changes, it's sort of uncharted territory.

100% agree with your entire post. And I wouldn't blame Panarin for asking for Vlad money. If he has another season like last year then he deserves it.

 

[ThatSaid]

Hossa on LTIR is not a given, since in previous cases, it was obvious the players could play anymore, but Hossa shows that he can play, so unless something changes, it's sort of uncharted territory.

I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which the league decided to impose a retroactive cap-penalty on any team, let alone one that is so widely followed.

It's pretty hard to explain to a fan (or GM) that the contract your team signed, legally, under the rules in place at the time, is going to hamstring your team's cap for a substantial period of time, resulting in asset losses and plummeting in the standings.

The NHL is in no hurry to enforce these retroactive penalties, and its extremely unlikely that we'll ever see a recapture penalty assessed.

Will Hossa have to ham up an injury? Maybe. Who knows though? The guy is probably one of the most physically fit players we have. He could end up playing another 3-4 meaningful years.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

There have been rumors that Hossa takes shots before every game and he doesn't have feeling in his feet or something of that sort. IDK, but it's definitely been out there that he has some health issues. He has played so many games over the past 8 years that its not inconceivable he gets away with hitting up LTIR. Who knows. Predicting what the NHL will do is useless in most cases. Obviously the Hawks are banking on not getting hit with recap penalties to remain a contender.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which the league decided to impose a retroactive cap-penalty on any team, let alone one that is so widely followed.

It's pretty hard to explain to a fan (or GM) that the contract your team signed, legally, under the rules in place at the time, is going to hamstring your team's cap for a substantial period of time, resulting in asset losses and plummeting in the standings.

The NHL is in no hurry to enforce these retroactive penalties, and its extremely unlikely that we'll ever see a recapture penalty assessed.

Will Hossa have to ham up an injury? Maybe. Who knows though? The guy is probably one of the most physically fit players we have. He could end up playing another 3-4 meaningful years.

What are you talking about in the first 3 paragraphs? If you are talking about early retirement, the recapture penalties are pretty clear, but I didn't talk about any of that. That's why Hossa is kind of untradeable from the Hawks POV. I don't think there is a recapture penalty that could be applied to Hossa, unless he retires.

For the last paragraph, that's the point. Every other LTIR case with a big cap hit, had the player with a legitimate career ending injury. The Hawks can't just casually place Hossa on LTIR if they want to. He will need a legitimate injury IMO, other-wise, either other teams or the PA would fight it. Maybe it's a loophole that can be exploited, but if that's the case, it would likely lead to a significant fight in the new CBA.

 

[thedoughboy]

A lot.
Id take a stab in the dark and say carolina could be a cood fit with a bunch of high end d prospects and winger prospects/players (not faulk obviously). Maybe 2 of them+ depending on which ones.

Also sure we can dump Kruger and Ansimov, then who do we play at 2C and 3C? Gagner is barely an nhler, we have no prospects that could fit that within 3 years(or for a while at this point) and the return for both wont be a replacement for either as well.

If anyone goes, itd most likely be crow imo. Most cap, most replaceable (dependent on thw team infront of him) and probably have the best return even with the watered down goalie market.

 

[mouser]

I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which the league decided to impose a retroactive cap-penalty on any team, let alone one that is so widely followed.

It's pretty hard to explain to a fan (or GM) that the contract your team signed, legally, under the rules in place at the time, is going to hamstring your team's cap for a substantial period of time, resulting in asset losses and plummeting in the standings.

The NHL is in no hurry to enforce these retroactive penalties, and its extremely unlikely that we'll ever see a recapture penalty assessed.

Will Hossa have to ham up an injury? Maybe. Who knows though? The guy is probably one of the most physically fit players we have. He could end up playing another 3-4 meaningful years.

Huh? There have already been two retroactive recapture penalties assessed--Kovalchuk and Richards.

The entire point of the recapture rule was to apply it retroactively.