Panarin: Yes or No?
- Thread starter Maximus
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
eco's bones
Registered User
This isn't ten years ago--you can't really count on later. There are only two big names in free agency this year and the only reason Karlsson is one of them is he's a physical wreck. I don't foresee a free agent worth breaking the bank over the next couple years. The Devils I expect will move heaven and earth to sign Hall and that will take the life out of the 'big' ufa's next year and there ain't anyone the year after--a 35 year old Ovechkin is the premier player now. After Ovie is Landeskog if he even makes it to free agency and I'd guess he won't and then comes a real drop off.
Could I see the Rangers signing Brendan Gallagher to a 6 year $7 mil per contract a couple years from now? They might feel they have to be able to reach the cap floor. Maybe it won't be that bad they'll pay $6.5 for 5 years of Phillip Danault or Brandon Saad instead. But that's the kind of free agency we're seeing more frequently anymore. 2nd/3rd liners--2nd/3rd pairings and guys in their mid-30's.
Timing is a nice thing but it's not always a shrewd thing. Shrewd is taking advantage of real opportunities when they present themselves.
Maximus
Registered User
I noticed that as well as there were alot of new posts to read when I got home from work this evening. Though there were a few good natured snickers tossed my way at my composing this poll in the first place a week or so ago, the fact that the poll is fairly close combined with the fact there are 9 pages of posts, is exactly the reason I wanted to take the temperature in here as to whether or not we go hard for Panarin.
There have been some compelling posts written by some that indicate signing him would be a real good idea. And on other hand that have been some well thought out posts illustrating that signing Panarin at this point in time would be a waste of valuable cap space down the road when most of our mega prospects are ready to pop.
I'm still in favor of us trying to get him to come here seeing I expect us to be a playoff contender quicker than some in here believe in fact it wouldn't shock me in the least if we aren't on the playoff bubble come late March next year with a shot to get in. Maybe I'm nuts but I don't see many teams in the Metro so much better than us even know other than maybe the Caps.
Who knows if what Canes and Isles did was for real. And if Jackets lose Panarin and Bob, they'd likely take a tumble down the standings. Pens look vulnerable. And who the heck knows about the Flyers and Devils. I guess what I'm saying is it wouldn't be a total shock if Rangers are a playoff bubble team despite the rebuild as we have some damn good players and alot of teams in the Metro have question marks heading into next season.
I think he would mesh very well with our young talent and tho sure we need help still on the defensive side of things, Panarin would make us pretty damn formidable when you add him to a top 6 of Mika,Kakko,Buch,Kravtsov, Krieder and Chytl. And also from looking at the future landscape as Echo astutely pointed out, there really aren't alot of studly "Panarin types" on the periphery and so let's pounce now and get 5-7 years of elite production from Panarin while the getting is good and keep developing our system.
Bottom line, there are more positives than negatives for me, to bringing an elite talent like Panarin to the team and doesn't hurt the rebuild one iota....
Last edited:
Are you really thinking not one single top talent will be a FA within the next 3 or 4 off seasons? When has there ever been a lack of FA talent to go on for that long?
Besides Panarin will be at the same 2nd line level you mentioned 3 or 4 seasons from now...except he'll most likely be making more money and he'll be older than any of the names you mentioned (or whoever their comparable will be as things unfold over the next 3 or 4 seasons.)
Panarin does not help us now. He does not help us next year. The kind of help we need from a guy like Panarin is help winning a cup. This team cannot compete for a cup this year or next year.
He helps us 2 or 3 seasons from now. But it's very possible that by then he's too old which makes signing him pointless. He'd have 4 or 5 more seasons to go too.
Maximus
Registered User
Who knows if Panarin would start to slow down in his early 30's? He could be like a Markus Naslund and morph into a even better player than he is now when he hits the big 3 0. St.Louis played pretty damn good into his 30's...yes? I dunno, he's a skilled type player, he doesn't play a heavy game and get hit alot. I could easily see him being a very productive player even when he hits the age 33-35 area.
Also training and conditioning techniques these days are much more advanced than in the past. I just don't see Panarin if we signed him, which by the way is obviously no sure thing and some would say is likely not going to happen, would all of a sudden fall off a cliff and pull a Milan Lucic or a Bobby Holik and become a zero all of a sudden.
Maybe I'm on an island here on this one but Bread Man would be the kind of risk I'd go for and one which would not not hurt the rebuild at all. I guess we'll agree to disagree which is fine.
This is going to be a repetitive post because I think it warrants it.
Rebuild and Panarin are not simultaneously possible.
I understand why fans want the Breadman. Who wouldn't ? He oozes skill, speed and is a top line player.
Big free agent signings are NOT part of a rebuilding program which NY has been undergoing for less than 2 seasons.
So don't fool yourself into thinking signing Karlsson, Panarin or both has ANYTHING to do with a rebuild.
This kind of move is about winning now.
Winning now has very little to do with rebuilding.
Its fine to believe NY is 1 or 2 top players away from competing. I love the enthusiasm.
But arguing that its part of a rebuild is fools gold.
Having followed the team since 79 its easy to see the laundry list of busts NY has brought in via UFA.
Even Joe Sakic signed NY's offer sheet before Colorado matched it.
Gorton & Davidson are both on record saying they are all in for a rebuild.
Lets hope they stick to their plan and let the big guns sign elsewhere.
I'm fine with NY being a poor team next season. As long as they are competitive and improve over the course of 80 plus games.
However things turn out we all agree that the blueshirts are the best team in the league and that we are the greatest fans as well.
LGR
Rebuild and Panarin are not simultaneously possible.
I understand why fans want the Breadman. Who wouldn't ? He oozes skill, speed and is a top line player.
Big free agent signings are NOT part of a rebuilding program which NY has been undergoing for less than 2 seasons.
So don't fool yourself into thinking signing Karlsson, Panarin or both has ANYTHING to do with a rebuild.
This kind of move is about winning now.
Winning now has very little to do with rebuilding.
Its fine to believe NY is 1 or 2 top players away from competing. I love the enthusiasm.
But arguing that its part of a rebuild is fools gold.
Having followed the team since 79 its easy to see the laundry list of busts NY has brought in via UFA.
Even Joe Sakic signed NY's offer sheet before Colorado matched it.
Gorton & Davidson are both on record saying they are all in for a rebuild.
Lets hope they stick to their plan and let the big guns sign elsewhere.
I'm fine with NY being a poor team next season. As long as they are competitive and improve over the course of 80 plus games.
However things turn out we all agree that the blueshirts are the best team in the league and that we are the greatest fans as well.
LGR
ReggieDunlop68
hey hanrahan!
So drafting big becomes even more important long term as the UFA market dries up due to locking in players long term?
ReggieDunlop68
hey hanrahan!
What amazes me is of any fans who should know the pit falls of not tanking and pulling back for a bit , it would be Ranger fans.
It would be similar to an Eskimo not being familiar with ice and suggesting increasing the air temp is good for the igloo.
Idk man.
I start to question some of you. @donpaulo sounds like someone who was farting up the blue seat cushions back in the rainbow seat era. Some of you I think were just dropped by the stork.
eco's bones
Registered User
It's possible. Are you really thinking if there is that the Rangers will be the team he signs with? I for one by the way am not as convinced about the Rangers exceptionalism as a free agent destination.
As far as what level Panarin will be 4 years from now you're guessing his play will drop as I'm guessing it won't. Last year was his most productive ever and he's a player with excellent skills but the thing that makes them exceptional is an ability to understand where everywhere on the ice and see plays developing before they actually happen. He's a throwback who depends very much on his hockey IQ to create offense. Gretzky had a similar quality. But maybe he will drop off. I wouldn't count on it until it actually happens though--the way he's trending now is towards getting better.
I will say this you cannot depend on free agency offering you up a stud in any given year. There are fewer and fewer and farther between. That leaves trades but to get a great player means giving up a lot in return and more often than not--that a lot comes in draft picks and prospects. You can keep a team humming for a while that way but eventually when your window closes it's start from scratch again--that happened to the Rangers and is in process of happening to the Penguins and Capitals now. The great thing about free agency when there is an elite player out there you can get him without giving up other assets to get him. Most teams in this day and age have come to a reckoning with that though. That's why when they have a great young player they lock him up as soon as they can.
eco's bones
Registered User
I'm not arguing with that. If the Rangers don't move their 20 OA (and I'm not expecting they will except maybe to move up) they will have had 7 firsts in the last three drafts plus also added Howden a former first. I don't expect they'll move their first next year either and there is also the possibility they will have a couple more--if for instance they trade Kreider and if for instance Dallas signs Zuccarello. So there could easily be 10 in 4 seasons plus Howden. It's not like with a stroke of Panarin's pen on a contract all that drafting is going to be undone or compromised in any way.
smoneil
Registered User
The issue in the dark ages was that they tried to build the team ENTIRELY through FA, not that they signed any FA's. They were mediocre teams that traded 1st rounders like pez and never developed much on the farm. When they DID luck into a real player (like Savard) they didn't realize it. There's a difference between assembling a full lineup of mercenaries and signing one guy to help the team be competitive while the kids are developing.
Panarin plays the weakest position depth wise in the entire depth chart (LW), he wouldn't be blocking anybody, I've already explained why his cap hit wouldn't be an issue, and how his presence can help with the development curve of the rest of the team. Literally, the only reason to NOT want him is because you want the team to suck and get a top 5 pick, but even if the team does finish in the bottom 5 (not done since the O6 era), the odds are far better that they fall out of that range in the lottery.
Huge difference between this and the 90s/00s.
ReggieDunlop68
hey hanrahan!
smoneil
Registered User
With a core of homegrown drafted in the 2nd round and later. None of that core, except for Lundqvist, McD, and maybe Staal would rank among our current top 7 or 8 prospects (the prospect versions of the old core). Because of that, Sather went out and basically bought a top 6. I’m advocating a top line LW. Again, big difference.
My non interest in Panarin doesn't so much have to do with his llay as it does the salary structure of the team. You need to have some foresight. If you sign Panarin to a 7×11, that's a lot of money for a long time. That takes you through the ELC of every player in the organization. How many of those guys do you figure to be real players? If you assume KK or Hughes is one, Kravtsov, then fill in the blank. He's going to be sitting there making 11m at 30+yrs old when these guys are pushing. What are the chances they're outperforming him at that point and how does it affect their asking price in contracts post ELC? Big no from me.
No one knows. No one knows when any player will slow down. That would involve future seeing powers no person has. What you DO have is a sample size of thousands of NHL players, players who are comparable to panarin in almost every conceivable way. They slow down. This is what happens. If you want to take the riusk that he's the ultra rare case of a guy who won't then that's you. However it is a massive, blind risk you are willing tot ake. It is not a logical, rational or smart one. There's also no reason to take it. A comparable player will be available, like they always are, sometime in the next 3 or 4 years. That is when we will actually need a Panarin in his prime.
Irrelevant. We don't know his regimen. We also don't have any sign that players are playing at an elite level well into their mid 30s now more than they ever have before. If there is evidence then I'd be open to see it of course and I might even revise my thoughts.
This is also irrelevant. it is not about him becoming zero. Im going to assume you were using hyperbole but that you meant to say what it is really about.
It's about him becoming an albatross early or in the middle of a massive contract, at the exact time when we actually need him to be in his prime. It's also about him hurting the rebuild by making us win games next year and the year after, causing us to finish way higher than we should. There is no benefit. None. it is all risk. Minimal likelihood of reward
I love the guy. Desperately want him on the team but unless it’s a franchise guy like Ovechkin or at some point hopefully a kakko I’m not sure paying a 29 year old WINGER is where u put your money when building championship teams. Top Centers and top pair D men you can send them blank checks for all I care but UFA wingers? Not sure that’s the smartest place to spend 10 million dollars.
If they turned around and gave karlsson 10 mil I’d actually understand it. Even with these injuries he’s still one of the absolute best players in the world. He should be in same conversation as a Crosby.
Now does he block DeAngelo and Fox sure they’re mins definitely come down. For now. But they’ll get their ice time especially if he has to sit here and there and In a few years at worst he’s a second pair dman and one of these guys supplants him. Wouldn’t surprise me.
If they turned around and gave karlsson 10 mil I’d actually understand it. Even with these injuries he’s still one of the absolute best players in the world. He should be in same conversation as a Crosby.
Now does he block DeAngelo and Fox sure they’re mins definitely come down. For now. But they’ll get their ice time especially if he has to sit here and there and In a few years at worst he’s a second pair dman and one of these guys supplants him. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Inferno
Registered User
Inferno
Registered User
There are plenty of players you can sign this off-season to short term contracts that can take the pressure off the kids. Wayne simmonds is a guy I'm interested in on a short term deal. Would he take a 2 year deal at a higher dollar amount?
So you're willing to risk signing Panarin on the chance he'll be the 1 in a million player who lasts at an elite level into his mid 30s but you won't risk the getting a top FA in 3 or 4 years even though that happens almost every year? I just don't get why. Other than shortsightedness and impatience
Inferno
Registered User
Yeah...the way I look at it is where would you rather be in 3 years when you're ready to compete...
Artemi panarin, the 15th of pick in 2020 and the 18th of pick in 2021
Or
Just hypothetically...
Quinton byfield, the 7thoa pick in 2021 and 11m in cap space to go sign or trade for any big ticket player you want?
TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
Byfield scenario ALL DAY EVERY DAY and it's not even close.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I feel like this year is more or less the exception to what we’ve seen over the last 15 years or so. As such, of course we’re now going to see a “reaction” to what we’re experiencing.
As for the whole bottoming out and getting a top pick approach, I think there’s the tendency to deal in absolutes. There is no road to success that is paved with absolutes. There are actions that tend to increased the odds, and those actions never exist in isolation. But anyone, on either side of the argument, that things building a winning team is an “if/than” scenario is likely to be disappointed.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Thousands of players comparable to Panarin in every single way?
Damn, no wonder people think you can get elite talent every summer.
Damn, no wonder people think you can get elite talent every summer.
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
2025 Stadium Series Detroit Red Wings vs Columbus Blue Jackets - Ohio Stadium, ColumbusWagers: 9Staked: $9,816.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
-
