Panarin - Malkin - Kucherov vs Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Kovalchuk vs Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny

[Lauro]

Krutov - Larionov - Makarov

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Nobody cares what you care about. Your opinion based on stats doesnt dictate if they were good or not

And thats cute - in one breathe, discount Mogilny based on stats and then in the next imply a player such as Nichols couldnt have been better than the greats based on his stats

So you choose to follow stats when it suits you but then make counter arguments that go against stats. You walk conversations into circles because you have no direction, your opinion is entirely based on stats. If you actually did watch themplay as you claim, you wouldnt be arguing that Mogilny is the obviously-worst player, consistently making it seem like its undebatable.

But yeah, keep thinking Artemi Panarin is better than Alexander Mogilny lmfao. You hold those stats you love so dearly tight as Panarin scores 2 points in a series to a division rival.

'I dont care who is more skilled' - yeah, that was real evident when you said Mogilny was the worst player of the group. Remind me what else matters in hockey besides skill (or is it Panarin's incredible stature, coming in at 30+ lbs lighter than Mogilny?)

What an awful post full of strawmen.

Kucherov blows Mogilny out of the water. So far, all the Mogilny side has produced is "bu bu but he was the best and you had to watch him play! He didn’t care, my mom told me!".

Kucherov demolishes him statistically. It’s not like we’re even talking the same tier of player there where there would be an argument. Then throw in playoff performance where Kucherov is one of the best in the modern era and one of the best full-stop. There is literally no argument in Mogilny’s favor besides that one 76-goal season which was also the highest-scoring in history.

Placing Mogilny at Kucherov’s level or above is a f***ing gag. Mogilny was fantastic but clearly a step below Kucherov.

Mark Messier is the 2nd greatest player ever because thats what his stats and awards say. You got it boss.

The stats and awards don't even say that. Quit the strawmen.

 

[wetcoast]

I think Panarin-Malkin-Kucherov probably have the best potential chemistry, and that swings it for me. All three guys are pretty balanced as both shooters and passers, and seem to play the game in a pretty similar way.

I think the Fedorov trio had the best chemistry and they terrorized on the international stage early in their Soviet careers.

 

[tabness]

What an awful post full of strawmen.

Kucherov blows Mogilny out of the water. So far, all the Mogilny side has produced is "bu bu but he was the best and you had to watch him play! He didn’t care, my mom told me!".

Kucherov demolishes him statistically. It’s not like we’re even talking the same tier of player there where there would be an argument. Then throw in playoff performance where Kucherov is one of the best in the modern era and one of the best full-stop. There is literally no argument in Mogilny’s favor besides that one 76-goal season which was also the highest-scoring in history.

Placing Mogilny at Kucherov’s level or above is a f***ing gag. Mogilny was fantastic but clearly a step below Kucherov.



The stats and awards don't even say that. Quit the strawmen.

not even worth the nerd ass argument just state the facts Mogilny ainec

 

[Montreal Shadow]

not even worth the nerd ass argument just state the facts Mogilny ainec

Yeah, forget facts. It’s all about how you feel.

 

[tabness]

Yeah, forget facts. It’s all about how you feel.

yeah man stats arent facts lol despite your feelings

 

[Montreal Shadow]

yeah man stats arent facts lol despite your feelings

Might be the most stupid thing you’ve typed on this board.

 

[tabness]

Might be the most stupid thing you’ve typed on this board.

stats are meaningless without interpretive context and getting over the incommensurability of comparing stats between players in different contexts (especially in such different eras) is not straightforward at all

I'm not able to dumb down this whole sort of discussion anymore to engage with you further though

Mogilny ainec

 

[Montreal Shadow]

stats are meaningless without interpretive context

I'm not able to dumb down this whole sort of discussion anymore to engage with you further though

Mogilny ainec

Good thing we’re not using "stats" without context. Finishes and awards aren’t stats. Nobody is saying X or Y has more points therefore he’s better.

The most important aspects of a player’s legacy, and you choose to ignore them because your feelings are hurt that your favorite player is outclassed.

 

[tabness]

Good thing we’re not using "stats" without context. Finishes and awards aren’t stats. Nobody is saying X or Y has more points therefore he’s better.

The most important aspects of a player’s legacy, and you choose to ignore them because your feelings are hurt that your favorite player is outclassed.

Awards finishes are even more incommensurable than stats lol

Mogilny is hardly my favorite player

these are some bad assumptions

heres a good one for you: Mogilny ainec

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Awards finishes are even more incommensurable than stats lol

Tl;dr, ignore everything because that’s how you feel. What a baby.

You’ve been owned and are just digging yourself in a hole. Stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[wetcoast]

I think some people here are forgetting the (at their peak) part here in the discussion.

 

[tabness]

Tl;dr, ignore everything because that’s how you feel. What a baby.

You’ve been owned and are just digging yourself in a hole. Stop embarrassing yourself.

If you can't even grasp the fact that awards voting methodologies as well as criteria changed even more massively than just the context of the game itself between when Mogilny played and Kucherov how's that on me?

dont get so pissy that people think differently from you lol

Mogilny ainec

 

[Montreal Shadow]

If you can't even grasp the fact that awards voting methodologies as well as criteria changed even more massively than just the context of the game itself between when Mogilny played and Kucherov how's that on me?

dont get so pissy that people think differently from you lol

Mogilny ainec

Still not a single argument but by all means, keep repeating yourself.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

I think some people here are forgetting the (at their peak) part here in the discussion.

Nah, it’s still the guy with two Stanley Cups who lead the league in playoff scoring twice, with an Hart, an Art Ross, and a Ted Lindsay.

Peak Kucherov was a top 2 player in the league. Mogilny never even sniffed this.

 

[wetcoast]

Nah, it’s still the guy with two Stanley Cups who lead the league in playoff scoring twice, with an Hart, an Art Ross, and a Ted Lindsay.

Peak Kucherov was a top 2 player in the league. Mogilny never even sniffed this.

Mogliny never played in his peak on a team like TB either.

I'm old enough to have watched Mogliny when he was young with Bure and Fedorov and had the iron curtain not come down we would be talking about that line like we are about the Green line forwards all time.

Fedorov at his peak is also being under rated here IMO.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Mogliny never played in his peak on a team like TB either.

His teammates were no slouches either and he also got prime Hasek later on who admittedly was known for dragging a mild Buffalo team to the playoffs and beyond. Even ignoring Mario, Mogilny never came close to leading the league in scoring but did manage a first place tie with Selanne. Kucherov beat out McDavid.

I'm old enough to have watched Mogliny when he was young with Bure and Fedorov and had the iron curtain not come down we would be talking about that line like we are about the Green line forwards all time.

Well, yeah, they played together. As far as I’m aware, Maklkin and Panarin never played with Kucherov? Not even in international competitons.

Fedorov at his peak is also being under rated here IMO.

He’s probably the best of his group honestly.

 

[tabness]

Mogliny never played in his peak on a team like TB either.

I'm old enough to have watched Mogliny when he was young with Bure and Fedorov and had the iron curtain not come down we would be talking about that line like we are about the Green line forwards all time.

Fedorov at his peak is also being under rated here IMO.

on HF some people will judge a guy like Fedorov poorly on stats and scoring/awards placements lol

sad but what can you do

 

[HockeyWooot]

Bure Fedorov Mogilny.

Speed and skill that would thrive in today's game

 

[Montreal Shadow]

on HF some people will judge a guy like Fedorov poorly on stats and scoring/awards placements lol

sad but what can you do

Ah yes, Fedorov who was second in scoring behind Gretzky, won an Hart and a Selke in the same season and tied for 10th place in scoring in another while getting playing elite defense and getting another Selke should totally not be judged based on his awards. He also led the playoff scoring race once, led in assists the next year, and then in goals the year after. He was a key peace in 3 cup runs. The guy was also so damn defensively good that he was used as a defenseman at times.

His trophy case and placements are excellent, unlike Mogilny so congrats for owning yourself again.

Can your takes get any more ignorant?

 

[wetcoast]

Ah yes, Fedorov who was second in scoring behind Gretzky, won an Hart and a Selke in the same season and tied for 10th place in scoring in another while getting playing elite defense and getting another Selke should totally not be judged based on his awards. He also led the playoff scoring race once, led in assists the next year, and then in goals the year after. He was a key peace in 3 cup runs. The guy was also so damn defensively good that he was used as a defenseman at times.

His trophy case and placements are excellent,

You are doing really well here and then.........but I guess you don't understand what peak means eh?

unlike Mogilny so congrats for owning yourself again.

Can your takes get any more ignorant?

 

[Montreal Shadow]

You are doing really well here and then.........but I guess you don't understand what peak means eh?

Different arguments. I was responding to the other poster about their careers because that’s what the discussion switched to.

I’m responding to you about their peaks which is what OP asked.

 

[wetcoast]

Different arguments. I was responding to the other poster about their careers because that’s what the discussion switched to.

Yes I saw this is what "derailed" the thread

Bure Fedorov Mogilny ainec



lol thanks for all the awards placements hockey-reference bot Mogilny is the most talented player here

now I don't agree as I think Malkin has the best pure talent, but part of that is his size and being a center but on another day it might be another guy but it's not a hot take as Mogliny was uber talented he just had consistency issues.

I’m responding to you about their peaks which is what OP asked.

Well let's just leave it at that then as cheap shots don't help and trust me I know as I have often done that here too just trying to be the bigger person some days is the better option.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Ovechkin is a top 15 players ever, the best goal scorer ever, arguably the second player in the league for a solid decase and gave +/- 50 goals almost every year for the past 15 years

Kucherov is a machine, but Ovechkin is a solid tier above everybody else IMO, and is an easy sell for his trio

Datsyuk is IMO the second best center behind Malkin (even that is arguable)

Kovy is the weakest player IMO but was still a beast

But yeah, Prime Ovy 10/10 for sure, easy choice

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lol a team led by ovi and kovy and Datsyuk is not going anywhere. Easily the malkin trio