P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

[AcadiaAxeMan]

Paris Hilton .....

....is a "STAR" as well ~ I prefer competent people on my TEAM!! (......That respect the franchise THEY play for with FAN money!)

The Montreal ****ING Canadiens have 16,000 tweets. Subban has 2500 and Price has 140.

Followers:

Canadiens: 347,000
Subban: 196,000
Price: 67,000

Subban is star quality and draws followers because he has ''it''. That thing that ''stars'' have.

The fact that Subban is only 150,000 followers off the the Montreal Canadiens franchise official twitter account shows to what extent he has popularity.

Subban is just a magnet of attention and part of that is being active on twitter, but not all of the reason.

 

[coolasprICE]

WE are taking HOLD of our organization again. PK fits where Carey/Pacs were placed - NO player will be paid more than Carey - the "inmates" don't run the asylum - he fits, or is out, or traded (package for PERRY)

Were you jumping for joy when we traded Chelios and Roy too?

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

WE are taking HOLD of our organization again. PK fits where Carey/Pacs were placed - NO player will be paid more than Carey - the "inmates" don't run the asylum - he fits, or is out, or traded (package for PERRY)

Such silly reasoning. I swear, you really can't please some fans. Perry's going to be a UFA, you really think he's not looking for big money? Stick to your guns of frugality while Perry signs with someone else and you have NOTHING to show for moving PK who will most likely be beasting on Anaheim.

We have had such a hard time drafting and developing talent...we finally get a budding star in Subban and people want him gone.

"The Habs way" has been complete trash for 2 decades now. Time to get with the program and start doing things differently.

I'm not taking sides here and I don't know who is at fault here but I don't understand why there were negotiations prior to the lockout.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

More like down, Kaberle's point shot was a beauty. Markov and Kabs are going to run that powerplay like champs.

It is funny to me how you pump up Kaberle but down Subban. Do you still miss Pierre?

 

[Haaabs]

Fans chanted "WE WANT PK! WE WANT PK! WE WANT PK" during scrimmage tonight, once during the game, and once in shootouts (right after Emelin's attempt).

I think he signs Friday night. He wants to play, but both sides are playing the waiting game and maybe PK just doesn't want to participate in training camp.

 

[JayKing]

I don't get that PK is getting all the hate( maybe too strong, but you get what I mean) for still not signing yet Jamie Benn doesn't get anything.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Bergevin was on Ron Fournier's show about 30 minutes ago and seemed completely exasperated when asked about the Subban talks. Mentioned they want him to be here and in camp but he has to look at all the factors that fans may not fully understand.

I am sure it will be up on the 98.5 FM site before long. Fournier then went on a looong rant about how Subban should just accept the bridge contract and Bergevin's response was ''I should hire you to help me negotiate'' while laughing...

 

[Montreal Impact FC]

The real concern with subban is his reputation... because of that people think subban is just adding another layer. If he would be a great teamate with no story i doubt people would see the same situation with a similar perception.

 

[Habset]

I don't get that PK is getting all the hate( maybe too strong, but you get what I mean) for still not signing yet Jamie Benn doesn't get anything.

That's just the way it is in Mtl. Players go from winners to losers over night and back to winners the next night. Its not really that we're bi-polar fans just that we have somany fans that the haters have fuel for there arguments when a player sucks and the fans praise him when he does well.

Not to mention many fans of other teams seem to love to hate the habs.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

The real concern with subban is his reputation... because of that people think subban is just adding another layer. If he would be a great teamate with no story i doubt people would see the same situation with a similar perception.

The funny thing about it all is Subban is the only player in the league that seems to be a bad teammate. This stuff happens in Montreal too much. The stories of Price being a drug head and Hamr, and the Kosti brothers having ties to the mob. So much crap seems to be blown up and believed here.

Subban may be immature in some regards but the way people blow that up to having attitude problems and being disliked by his teammates is so ridiculous but so Montreal. Imagine if PK had real problems like other players? Like the players who have assaulted women, had drug issues, beat up cabbies...that stuff gets swept under the rug. So yes, the attitude thing is silly. Again, I know people that know him personally...he's an entertaining guy and has boyish exuberance. That rubs some the wrong way but I don't quite get how that's a knock on him.

Subban's the type of guy who may get too much praise and too much hate at the same time.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Bergevin was on Ron Fournier's show about 30 minutes ago and seemed completely exasperated when asked about the Subban talks. Mentioned they want him to be here and in camp but he has to look at all the factors that fans may not fully understand.

I am sure it will be up on the 98.5 FM site before long. Fournier then went on a looong rant about how Subban should just accept the bridge contract and Bergevin's response was ''I should hire you to help me negotiate'' while laughing...

I'm losing some faith in Bergevin for this bridge contract crap. It's stupid. They have a chance to ink one of their best player to a long term deal and are getting hung up over this ridiculous barrier they set for themselves.

It reminds me of the Pejorative Slured Gainey philosophy of not negotiating during the season.

Aren't there enough CBA rules that you don't burden yourself with more.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

It is funny to me how you pump up Kaberle but down Subban. Do you still miss Pierre?

It's funny to me how saying PK isn't worth 6million or he "isn't a superstar yet" is putting him down to some.

Are you still bitter your boy Pierre McGuire didn't get chosen as GM?

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

It's funny to me how saying PK isn't worth 6million or he "isn't a superstar yet" is putting him down to some.

Are you still bitter your boy Pierre McGuire didn't get chosen as GM?

I've seen you all over this board putting him down. I didn't want McGuire. What are you talking about?

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I'm losing some faith in Bergevin for this bridge contract crap. It's stupid. They have a chance to ink one of their best player to a long term deal and are getting hung up over this ridiculous barrier they set for themselves.

It reminds me of the Pejorative Slured Gainey philosophy of not negotiating during the season.

Aren't there enough CBA rules that you don't burden yourself with more.

I agree. I could understand it it was a money issue. But term? Lock him up! I think he's too driven to just fall off and stop playing at a high level.

 

[Sined]

No one is greater than the team.

I don't get that PK is getting all the hate( maybe too strong, but you get what I mean) for still not signing yet Jamie Benn doesn't get anything.

If Benn was a Hab he'd be getting this flack.

 

[Kriss E]

Bergevin was on Ron Fournier's show about 30 minutes ago and seemed completely exasperated when asked about the Subban talks. Mentioned they want him to be here and in camp but he has to look at all the factors that fans may not fully understand.

I am sure it will be up on the 98.5 FM site before long. Fournier then went on a looong rant about how Subban should just accept the bridge contract and Bergevin's response was ''I should hire you to help me negotiate'' while laughing...

I certainly hope there is more to it than this. Otherwise, I'll be extremely disappointed with Bergevin. I'll wait to see what actually happens, but I'm already disappointed those guys couldn't get him signed. After all, part of being a GM is making sure you build the best team possible, and negotiation contracts are part of it. Right now, it's a failure on Bergevin's negotiation tactics to make sure his best player is here.
Being a good negotiator is like being a good lawyer, you come in with an idea that you can back up with strong arguments and others that can destroy your ''opponent's'' case.
PK has a multitude of arguments that can favor him wanting a bigger deal. What does Bergevin actually has in order to justify wanting a bridge contract? Because that's the structure that he wants to uphold?? That's fine, but it's nowhere near a strong argument. Bergevin would get destroyed in an arbitration case, it's a good thing for him that's not an option.

It just makes no sense at all for Bergevin to stubbornly hold his position. It's actually a better thing for the organization to get PK at a cheaper price than they would in 2 years. That's the biggest head scratcher to me.

It's not quite that simple, there is an issue with eating into his free agent years, the best option would be to sign him to a short term deal(which MB wants to do) Then sign him to a long term deal

Actually it is quite that simple. Why would you want to sign him to a short deal (say of 4M) and then sign him to maybe double that amount, when you can sign him now long term for about 5-6/8th of that future cap hit.

Your scenario: PK signs now, 2y 4M. Improves has he did, re-signs 8y 7.5M.
My scenario: PK signs now, 6y (or up to 8) 5.5-6M.

You seriously prefer your scenario??

 

[MathMan]

Haven't seen you post in quite some time. Welcome back!

Thanks. Not saying I'll be as active as before, but I should be around.

I was a big fan of PK. A lot of us will become less of a fan, with the way he is acting.

It's interesting to me that so many people assume Subban is the greedy one. It's entirely possible Bergevin is lowballing Subban either to save money or because he misevaluated the player. We just don't know.

Unfortunately we don't know what Bergevin is offering or what PK is asking for, so it is hard to make a judgment on how these negotiations are progressing.

Indeed, except for the fact that they're not talking right now.

That player is already on the lineup. He's been our best player in camp. We lost only 3 games in regulation out of 13 last year and he wasn't even close to 100%. That's our MVP, and will remain so unless he gets injured again.

I like Markov as well as the next guy, but odds are he's not the player he once was, and even at Markov's peak, Subban would have been close.

True......but he is not 3 million better than Del Zotto. P.K. should be looking at the Price/Pacioretty examples and fitting in there where he belongs. At this point he is being selfish and hurting the team by demanding more than he is worth.

Subban is a high-end #1 D-man. Del Zotto is about a #4. The two players really aren't peers. If Subban is not 3 million better than del Zotto, it's not far from that.

 

[Kriss E]

No one is greater than the team.

Get off your freaking high horse. You realize that players JUST fought for their right to earn their correct value?
And now Bergevin is apparently trying to tell PK he should accept less money than maybe half our regular Dmen, despite being our #1 D? Just because of his age? You realize how dumb this sounds?

 

[Kriss E]

Subban is a high-end #1 D-man. Del Zotto is about a #4. The two players really aren't peers. If Subban is not 3 million better than del Zotto, it's not far from that.

Perhaps PK is not worth 3M more than Del Zotto, but Del Zotto was worth more than what he got too. He settled for a cheap deal, and that's probably because the Rangers have Girardi - Mcdo - Staal ahead of him. So they can very well handle playing without him.
In Mtl, we have Markov, and again, that's considering he's back to form. We are thin in on D and absolutely need PK.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Get off your freaking high horse. You realize that players JUST fought for their right to earn their correct value?
And now Bergevin is apparently trying to tell PK he should accept less money than maybe half our regular Dmen, despite being our #1 D? Just because of his age? You realize how dumb this sounds?

I thought in your eyes PK would be just another "crybaby millionaire" and how he should be joyous to get to play for millions of dollars? I seem to remember that sentiment from you and how he will make more than any ordinary person will ever make just to play a game?

Oh wait that was for the players as a whole during the lockout, now that it is close to home your tune has changed rather dramatically.

 

[Final Baton]

I'm losing some faith in Bergevin for this bridge contract crap. It's stupid. They have a chance to ink one of their best player to a long term deal and are getting hung up over this ridiculous barrier they set for themselves.

It reminds me of the Pejorative Slured Gainey philosophy of not negotiating during the season.

Aren't there enough CBA rules that you don't burden yourself with more.

Why are you losing faith? You should be grateful, every fanbase wish their GM would go for these type of contracts for young athlete's second deals.

Less risk(if the player doen't meet expectations, at least your hands aren't tied) and you get to keep your player longer before he reaches autonomy(bridge 2nd deal + max deal, instead of just max deal as second deal).

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Counterproductive, I think. I can picture Meehan sitting with his calculator, raising the price by one hundred-thousand for each chant.

Meehan can raise his price as much as he wants but that shouldn't panic Bergevin. He knows there are limits on what other teams can offer Subban.

 

[Svart]

Actually it is quite that simple. Why would you want to sign him to a short deal (say of 4M) and then sign him to maybe double that amount, when you can sign him now long term for about 5-6/8th of that future cap hit.

Your scenario: PK signs now, 2y 4M. Improves has he did, re-signs 8y 7.5M.
My scenario: PK signs now, 6y (or up to 8) 5.5-6M.

You seriously prefer your scenario??

LOL Kriss E you're killing me.

How about you contact Don Meehan ASAP and let him know he's trying to negotiate a bad deal for his client?!

According to your logic, PK would be better off signing the 2-year deal and then the big contract.. more money for PK!

Hurry up, call Donnie before it's too late.

Funny how this poll is going... and how the whole TSN panel was unanimous about Subban signing the bridge contract. Yet, you still try to convince us that we are wrong. Get real.

 

[Angler]

We have had such a hard time drafting and developing talent...we finally get a budding star in Subban and people want him gone.

I don't think anyone actually wants Subban gone. They would have to be crazy to think that, he is our best defenseman.

With that said though, I don't think any one player should be privelidged over the rest, except if they are a franchise player. As of right now, Subban is not. He is a #1 Defenseman and might have the potential to be alot better, but he isn't good enough at this point to be the exception to the rule. Give him a year or two and maybe he becomes the exception. That is all MB is saying because in that scenario PK would cash in big.

You complain that the Habs need to get their office in order. Well taking this stance with the franchise salary structure is a good start. They ARE NOT going to lose him over this negotiation unless its by their own choice. I state above that that would be a stupid decision and have faith that MB wouldn't do that.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

The chant can go either way. Saturday night if we get blown out by the leafs... Don't forget, fans are already fed up after that lockout.

Suppose the Habs don't get blown out and instead teach the Leafs a lesson. Would it sink in that Bergevin refuses to overpay? That every game Subban misses would be equivalent to a fine of $100,000 or so? That it would take Subban longer and longer to play at a level commensurate with the salary and contract length he demands and the Habs seem unwilling to agree to? Subban isn't Shea Weber or Karlsson or by now he would have received a diamond-studded offer sheet.