P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

[Agnostic]

Why does one of the headier Oilers bloggers disagree with you? From the comments of this article : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/7/29/3196635/pk-subban-is-a-bad-person-and-oel-is-a-wimp , the author notes that it would cost the Oilers MORE than Eberle to acquire Subban. I would presume this particular author knows more about Eberle than you do, and just as much, if not more about Subban. Suggestion for further reading : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/4/12/2943259/young-defenseman-comparisons-nhl

Wow, I feel so embarassed being at odds with a blogger from the Edmonton interweb.

Bookmark this , if and when Jordan Eberle++ come to Montreal for Subban I'll admit I should have listened to you.

 

[j52]

He has a ton of promise, but a ton of attitude.
If they don't get off to a fast start, they have
To sign him. If they win 5 of their first 7,
They can trade his rights to a western team
For a good forward. They need goals.

 

[Habtchum*]

My issue with Subban is not that he's holding out - it's his right if he so wishes.
I just don't like the fact that he wants to be paid on potential and marketability alone. His body of work is no body, less than 200 games does not a body make. That's why bridge contracts exist, to give the player the opportunity to fulfill some of that potential.
He may have been the best Dman on the team last year, but that was a team that finished 3rd from the bottom and who's previous #1 was out for the season, arguably one can ask what kind of accomplishment is that?
PK and/or his agent need a dose of reality, take the rose colored glasses off and react accordingly, or he can sit out the year cuz he be worth it.
Either way, the choice is his

You're right.

Even Josh Gorges said it today. Bridge contract is not the end of the World.

PK' father who is a strict no nonsense school Principal shouls talk to his son and explain him a thing or two about life.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm not a huge fan of dealing away your top prospects/players even if it is for another teams best prospects players. Not sure if Eberle is worth Subban or the other way around but I wouldn't want to make that trade.

Subban is our defenseman of the future and he'd be very tough to replace. We've already got Max, Price and Galchenyuk. Why create a huge hole on the blueline to go get Eberle? Doesn't make sense to me even if Eberle is a great player.

And if we were going after an Oiler I'd probably want RNH. I think he's going to be the best of the lot. Absolutely awesome young player.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You're right.

Even Josh Gorges said it today. Bridge contract is not the end of the World.

PK' father who is a strict no nonsense school Principal shouls talk to his son and explain him a thing or two about life.

Josh Gorges needs to stop publicly talking about another players' contract negotiations. If he said this, he really needs to shut up. I hope he didn't say this.

 

[Agnostic]

My issue with Subban is not that he's holding out - it's his right if he so wishes.
I just don't like the fact that he wants to be paid on potential and marketability alone. His body of work is no body, less than 200 games does not a body make. That's why bridge contracts exist, to give the player the opportunity to fulfill some of that potential.
He may have been the best Dman on the team last year, but that was a team that finished 3rd from the bottom and who's previous #1 was out for the season, arguably one can ask what kind of accomplishment is that?
PK and/or his agent need a dose of reality, take the rose colored glasses off and react accordingly, or he can sit out the year cuz he be worth it.
Either way, the choice is his

How do you feel about Carey Price's last 2 contracts?

 

[Angler]

This thread has devolved into something similar to the Price/Halak threads in which if you said anything redeeming about Price, that meant you HATTTTED Halak, didn't absolutely love him for doing what he did in 2010 (as well as prior to that). Here, agreeing with Bergevin's stance, being somewhat ticked off that PK seems to be asking to a bit more than he deserves means that you HAAAAATE PK, that you'd rather trade him, that he's a cancer, that he's the most greedy person on earth.

It isn't like that at all. Most if not all want PK signed VERY badly. Many of us have become sensitized to giving out contracts that may be a little too generous. We're looking toward the future and with all the talk about PK always being a #1 D (what a crock!), he was a great surprise for us in that he's developed into currently our best defenseman and one for the future likely (although I put Markov equal with him due to his talents and TBH Gorges' defensive play is irreplaceable on this team).

What about if the same thing happens with Beaulieu, Tinordi, Gally, etc. I see very good things for us in the future and every time this situation arises (it's been a while since we've had the emergence of some very talented young guys to form out core), we can't go giving out contracts that we can't afford. Patches' contract was fair. Price's was fair. PK is asking IMO a little more than what's fair. Whether that's leverage or not, the point is that many of us just wish he would recognize that he will still make a VERY decent sum of money by taking what (and yes I have to admit I don't know what's going on in the room) Bergevin has allegedly offered him. It's about wanting him to forget about the SUPER big contract now and focus on hockey and building this team back up. He will get the super big one if he plays like he has, but for now, just take what is essentially a BIG contract. (Even if it's two years, it's great money for a player in his position.)

For those calling that a "hating PK" perspective, I think they're overvaluing him just a bit and more importantly (and ironically) not looking to the future. Our GM is finally doing the sensible thing, albeit inconvenient for the first game(s), and believe me I'm deeply disappointed cuz I really needed to see him vs. the leafs, and people complain that our organization is making the same mistakes. It's quite the opposite. Hopefully it's resolved ASAP. I will look forward to seeing Subban EARN what he currently thinks he deserves - he's still got to improve a few things and he will.

The fact that we have a very good chance of seeing Gally play on the second line tomorrow has softened the blow for me. Not by much, but I'm focussing my attentions on just scoring from up front.

Good post. My outlook on the situation is similar to yours. Its not like the Habs are going to lose Subban over this, and if he is the professional that alot of people claim he is, Subban shouldn't be holding any grudges over business such as contract negotiations.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Than Gorges, sure. Than Subban, definitely not.

Although there's another angle to this "first season of action" bit. McD has only done it for a year and we don't know how much of it was Girardi. Remember, we used to think Komisarek was pretty good (not saying that McD is like that, but when a pairing is always together it can be hard to tell who's driving). Curious to see how he does this year.

Subban OTOH has been a top-pairing guy for a year and a half now with two different D-men, and he's definitely always been the pairings' top guy -- neither Gorges nor Gill can carry a top pairing.

Not over Subban dude... over Girardi. He'll be the Rangers best blueliner in a couple of years. He and Subban would've been absolutely sick together.

Whoops here comes another stroke...

 

[onebighockeyfan]

Josh Gorges needs to stop publicly talking about another players' contract negotiations. If he said this, he really needs to shut up. I hope he didn't say this.

He was talking about his situation. What's the problem with that? Shows you he does not have much respect for PK. If he did he would probably zip it.

 

[Habtchum*]

Josh Gorges needs to stop publicly talking about another players' contract negotiations. If he said this, he really needs to shut up. I hope he didn't say this.

He did. But, of course, he said it's up to PK to decide for himself. Gorges said that the bridge contract worked fine for him.

 

[Agnostic]

Good post. My outlook on the situation is similar to yours. Its not like the Habs are going to lose Subban over this, and if he is the professional that alot of people claim he is, Subban shouldn't be holding any grudges over business such as contract negotiations.

I suspect someone will blink after a game or two because they will realize how totally unecessary this is. It's a good sign that we have no clue as to the numbers being talked about , means neither side has resorted to using the media and public opinion as a negotiating tool.

 

[Habtchum*]

He was talking about his situation. What's the problem with that? Shows you he does not have much respect for PK. If he did he would probably zip it.

Gorges knows more about PK than ALL of us on this board.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

Why does one of the headier Oilers bloggers disagree with you? From the comments of this article : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/7/29/3196635/pk-subban-is-a-bad-person-and-oel-is-a-wimp , the author notes that it would cost the Oilers MORE than Eberle to acquire Subban. I would presume this particular author knows more about Eberle than you do, and just as much, if not more about Subban. Suggestion for further reading : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/4/12/2943259/young-defenseman-comparisons-nhl

You don't have to look to far to get your answer. Even on this thread you have people that would sign Subban to whatever amount he's asking and other who are not that convinced that he's hit the 5-6+ mark yet. Its a matter of opinion.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

I suspect someone will blink after a game or two because they will realize how totally unecessary this is. It's a good sign that we have no clue as to the numbers being talked about , means neither side has resorted to using the media and public opinion as a negotiating tool.

The silly part is why wait a couple of games? They must be very far apart.

 

[Angler]

I suspect someone will blink after a game or two because they will realize how totally unecessary this is. It's a good sign that we have no clue as to the numbers being talked about , means neither side has resorted to using the media and public opinion as a negotiating tool.

I hope that you are right. I want him signed as much as anyone, but the negotiating the best contract for the team is worth the first couple games in my opinion.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He was talking about his situation. What's the problem with that? Shows you he does not have much respect for PK. If he did he would probably zip it.

Do you think there were guys who Yzerman didn't respect? Did you ever hear him talk about it publicly?

You don't bring this crap into the media, it's not how a leader behaves.

He did. But, of course, he said it's up to PK to decide for himself. Gorges said that the bridge contract worked fine for him.

Gorges should shut the hell up. The contract worked for him... that's nice. He doesn't have PK's talent set.

It's one thing for us fans to go back and forth on this over a forum its a whole other ballgame for a player to stick his nose into it with the papers. I really hope he didn't do this because if he did I've just lost a lot of respect for him.

As for the contract negotiations and who to blame? Its all speculation. We have no idea what's really going on so I don't have any strong opinions on this. What I will say though is that going by past history Meehan's clients have a history of holding out. I'd say he's more responsible for this than anyone.

Gorges knows more about PK than ALL of us on this board.

Too bad he doesn't know enough to shut the f up.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

Gorges knows more about PK than ALL of us on this board.

Easily. I think Gorges sent a meesage to PK with these comments. I hope it gets through to PK.

 

[overlords]

Easily. I think Gorges sent a meesage to PK with these comments. I hope it gets through to PK.

If gorges has something to say to PK, he should grow some brain cells and call him up on the phone. Doing it through the media in the city of Montreal is a braindead tactic. And I'm someone who believed Gorges to be the next Habs captain.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

Do you think there were guys who Yzerman didn't respect? Did you ever hear him talk about it publicly?

You don't bring this crap into the media, it's not how a leader behaves.

Gorges should shut the hell up. The contract worked for him... that's nice. He doesn't have PK's talent set.

It's one thing for us fans to go back and forth on this over a forum its a whole other ballgame for a player to stick his nose into it with the papers. I really hope he didn't do this because if he did I've just lost a lot of respect for him.

As for the contract negotiations and who to blame? Its all speculation. We have no idea what's really going on so I don't have any strong opinions on this. What I will say though is that going by past history Meehan's clients have a history of holding out. I'd say he's more responsible for this than anyone.

Perhaps Gorges is talking on behalf of many players in the room who don't give a **** about PK's demands, his boycott of training camp and superstar behaviour. Perhaps that's how managment feels as well, hence why Bergevin is not budging.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

If gorges has something to say to PK, he should grow some brain cells and call him up on the phone. Doing it through the media in the city of Montreal is a braindead tactic. And I'm someone who believed Gorges to be the next Habs captain.

That's exactly why I think Gorges is speaking on behalf of the locker room.

 

[pine*]

Perhaps Gorges is talking on behalf of many players in the room who don't give a **** about PK's demands, his boycott of training camp and superstar behaviour. Perhaps that's how managment feels as well, hence why Bergevin is not budging.

Perhaps you're just talking out of your ass.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Its not like the Habs are going to lose Subban over this, and if he is the professional that alot of people claim he is, Subban shouldn't be holding any grudges over business such as contract negotiations.

I'm more worried it's the other way around. At some point the Habs may just throw in the towel on the ''stalemate'' if the team gets off to a bad start and entertain trade offers with the entire league having the leverage. The thought alone makes me sick.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

If gorges has something to say to PK, he should grow some brain cells and call him up on the phone. Doing it through the media in the city of Montreal is a braindead tactic. And I'm someone who believed Gorges to be the next Habs captain.

Maybe he told him directly already and he was disappointed with PK's answer?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Easily. I think Gorges sent a meesage to PK with these comments. I hope it gets through to PK.

The only message he sent was that he's not the leader I thought he was.

If gorges has something to say to PK, he should grow some brain cells and call him up on the phone. Doing it through the media in the city of Montreal is a braindead tactic. And I'm someone who believed Gorges to be the next Habs captain.

One of my favourite posters agrees with me. I feel good about this.

Perhaps Gorges is talking on behalf of many players in the room who don't give a **** about PK's demands, his boycott of training camp and superstar behaviour. Perhaps that's how managment feels as well, hence why Bergevin is not budging.

Who cares who he's speaking for. He shouldn't be speaking about this publicly at all. Hell, he shouldn't be sticking his nose in this privately for that matter. It's none of his business.

 

[AntonCH]

How do you feel about Carey Price's last 2 contracts?

Seriously?
You wouldn't call his last contract a bridge contract?
Couple that with his maturing And the play he's demonstrated on a week defensive team as not worth the contract he signed?
I agree it may be a little rich, but its not my name on that contract next to price.