P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

[Lafleurs Guy]

You go first sir. How shall we start?

Well, most trades happen by proposing them on message boards right? Let's post it on the Leaf thread and see how they respond.

Silly Leaf fans, they have no idea what's in store for them.

 

[Kriss E]

You have not gotten it right. I stated that if toronto's pick was top 3 than I would certainly do the hypothetical deal of subban for jvr plus a 1st that was proposed by another poster. I than stated that I would than be willing to part with jvr and plekanec if it meant getting another top pick. The 2 players I would have in mind would be mackinnon and drouin. Plekanec, (still a great player btw) would become an overpayed 3rd liner in the not too distant future if we had mackinnon and galchenyuk as our 1-2. and yes I did indeed state that our first pick could be used to acquire a top 3 pick, not necessarily meaning it would be jvr Plekanec and our first, but if you think about it, all together, if we could subbtract from our lineup right now: PK subban tomas plekanec and our 1st for Johnathan Drouin and Nathan Mackinnon...it would have to be considered, and I think I would be willing to do it.

I still wouldn't do it.
None of the top 3 guys set to go in this year's draft are guaranteed to become better than PK. I mean, PK was already used as a top 30Dman last year and did very well. That's only in his 2nd season. The guy is a sure bet. No prospect is ever a sure bet.
Just look at JVR, he was a #2 overall.

Here's the best idea: Keep PK Subban.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I still wouldn't do it.
None of the top 3 guys set to go in this year's draft are guaranteed to become better than PK. I mean, PK was already used as a top 30Dman last year and did very well. That's only in his 2nd season. The guy is a sure bet. No prospect is ever a sure bet.
Just look at JVR, he was a #2 overall.

Here's the best idea: Keep PK Subban.

As much as I love PK, I'd trade him for Seth Jones/McKinnon + JVR in a heartbeat.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

It looks like you like Dryden. You know that he sat out the 73(?) season because he felt that the Habs were not properly compensating him for his talents. Your diatribe is ironic, to say the least.

It's funny, though. PK has no contract. He wants to be compensated fairly and yet he is selfish.

"Close your eyes and sign the contract offered, PK!"

Only in Montreal!

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Could you guys imagine if Subban did this??



We'd have to invent a new word. Like Classlesscancerjerk. Or something along those lines.

If PK did this there would be a warrant out for his arrest. But it's Gorges so lets laugh it off.

 

[DAChampion]

A rehash, this is what we know with reasonable certainty:

- Bergevin has offered Subban 2 years, 2.2 million then 2.9 million for an average of 2.55 million, as reported by Pierre Lebrun and Renaud Lavoie. He said that he is a new GM and he has not had enough time to evaluate Subban's talents, he wants to know if Subban is a genuine professional or not. This is the same or approximately the same offer as last summer.

- Subban and Bergevin are 2-3 million apart. That means Subban wants between 4.55 million and 5.55 million per year. We know that Subban prefers a long-term deal but is willing to sign a short-term deal if it is at fair market value.

- We know that Subban's value based on comparables is around 4-5 million a year:
Cam Fowler, Anaheim, 5 years @ 4 million per
Tyler Myers, Buffalo, 7 years @ 5.5 million per
Drew Doughty, Los Angeles, 8 years @ 7 million per
Marc Staal, New York Rangers, 5 years @ 3.975 million per
Erik Karlsson, Ottawa, 7 years @ 6.5 million per
Luke Schenn, Philadelphia, 5 years @ 4.5 million per
Victor Hedman, Tampa Bay, 5 years @ 4 million per
Alexander Edler, Vancouver, 4 years @ 3.25 million per
John Carlson, Washington, 6 years @ 3.9 million per
Mike Green, Washington, 4 years @ 5.25 million per
Michael Del Zotto, New York, 2 years @ 2.75 million per

 

[onebighockeyfan]

I almost forgot how good Markov is. With a healthy Markov in the lineup PK is no longer a #1D.
I think this is a reason why its hard to evaluate how much he's worth.

 

[DAChampion]

I almost forgot how good Markov is. With a healthy Markov in the lineup PK is no longer a #1D.
I think this is a reason why its hard to evaluate how much he's worth.

How much is an excellent #2 dman worth?

 

[WG]

My biggest beef in it all of this is that PK is only proving his detractors right. He is selfish. I agree he should be paid what he's worth... but... he's asking for money for what he brings to the table off the ice... in other words his star power.

Well PK, I hate to break this to you, but the city of Montreal is what makes you a star. Montreal has been creating hockey personalities for a century and will continue to do so long after you leave. You personally have more financially to gain by staying in Montreal and signing endorsement than hmmm.. let's say... Columbus. Ask Rick Nash about that vacuum. If you were a rookie anywhere else than here or Toronto no one would know your name. You came here and shot your mouth off... constantly. The media in Montreal feeds on that and voila, you all of a sudden think your star power is worth extra dough.....It's not! Komisarek was a star here, a never-ending soap opera with Boston... last I checked he was rich and less than useless in Toronto.

I kind of doubt this. Forbes published an artlicle last November listing the highest paid players in temrs of salary + endorsements. The ensorsement numbers were surprisingly low. Crosby, the face of the league, adds $4M per in endorsmeents ot his NHL salary. Ovechkin is about $2.5M. Toews 1.2M, everyone else is < $1M, including Stamkos, Malkin, Nash, etc.

As a disclaimer this list only cited the top combined income so maybe there's a guy out there with a relatively low base salary making $2-3M but it's hard to imagine many players doing better than Stamkos and OV.

PK is probably better off financially getting a fair NHL contract vs. taking a lowball offer and trying to make up the difference selling products in Canada. There's only so much Windsor Salt Pellets a guy can sell.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/11/28/sidney-crosby-tops-list-of-the-nhls-highest-paid-players/

 

[onebighockeyfan]

How much is an excellent #2 dman worth?

Less than a #1D

About 3.5-4M I Guess.

 

[Roulin]

How much is an excellent #2 dman worth?

$98mil, according to Minnesota.

 

[Hockey Team]

A rehash, this is what we know with reasonable certainty:

- Bergevin has offered Subban 2 years, 2.2 million then 2.9 million for an average of 2.55 million, as reported by Pierre Lebrun and Renaud Lavoie. He said that he is a new GM and he has not had enough time to evaluate Subban's talents, he wants to know if Subban is a genuine professional or not. This is the same or approximately the same offer as last summer.

- Subban and Bergevin are 2-3 million apart. That means Subban wants between 4.55 million and 5.55 million per year. We know that Subban prefers a long-term deal but is willing to sign a short-term deal if it is at fair market value.

- We know that Subban's value based on comparables is around 4-5 million a year:
Cam Fowler, Anaheim, 5 years @ 4 million per
Tyler Myers, Buffalo, 7 years @ 5.5 million per
Drew Doughty, Los Angeles, 8 years @ 7 million per
Marc Staal, New York Rangers, 5 years @ 3.975 million per
Erik Karlsson, Ottawa, 7 years @ 6.5 million per
Luke Schenn, Philadelphia, 5 years @ 4.5 million per
Victor Hedman, Tampa Bay, 5 years @ 4 million per
Alexander Edler, Vancouver, 4 years @ 3.25 million per
John Carlson, Washington, 6 years @ 3.9 million per
Mike Green, Washington, 4 years @ 5.25 million per
Michael Del Zotto, New York, 2 years @ 2.75 million per

ALL those contracts (except del zotto) include UFA years.

If you want to compare contracts you have to compare only contracts that don't include UFA years, or contracts that do include UFA years.

A 2 year deal (no UFA years) would be most comparable to del zotto.. 2.75 each, so the 2.55 mil offer is reasonable. If PK countered asking for 2.75, or 2.95 a year, then this would most likely be a done deal.

There's no way he gets 5 mil a year for just 2 RFA years.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I almost forgot how good Markov is. With a healthy Markov in the lineup PK is no longer a #1D.
I think this is a reason why its hard to evaluate how much he's worth.

He's a 1st pairing dman. He's also very durable. Something Markov is not. I consider him and Markov 1A-1B dmen. That still doesn't change PK's value.

 

[loudi94]

I'm thinking he gets signed as early as tomorrow. We can be a playoff team this year but our D is going to cause us trouble. Tonight's game shows we have holes back there. PK would more than fill those holes. If MB doesn't see it, well then he's not interested in putting the best team on the ice.

 

[Kimota]

It's when I watch games like this one against the Devils where we look shaky that makes you realise that yea we really need him!

 

[deandebean]

I say sign him for 3.5 per 2 years. Bergevin put the bar very low (if the numbers are true). Very low.

 

[loudi94]

It's when I watch games like this one against the Devils where we look shaky that makes you realise that yea we really need him!

First back to back of the season tomorrow. It would be nice to not have to play Markov so much.

Edit: My bad. Don't play until Tuesday

 

[Rickkins]

So, does the 4-3 ot victory over the Devils send Subbs scurrying back to the habs forthwith, or what..??

 

[loudi94]

So, does the 4-3 ot victory over the Devils send Subbs scurrying back to the habs forthwith, or what..??

Needs to be a combination of him wanting in on what's happening in Mtl and MB realizing this team can compete all year. Meeting in the middle will do it.

 

[That]

A rehash, this is what we know with reasonable certainty:

- Bergevin has offered Subban 2 years, 2.2 million then 2.9 million for an average of 2.55 million, as reported by Pierre Lebrun and Renaud Lavoie. He said that he is a new GM and he has not had enough time to evaluate Subban's talents, he wants to know if Subban is a genuine professional or not. This is the same or approximately the same offer as last summer.

- Subban and Bergevin are 2-3 million apart. That means Subban wants between 4.55 million and 5.55 million per year. We know that Subban prefers a long-term deal but is willing to sign a short-term deal if it is at fair market value.

- We know that Subban's value based on comparables is around 4-5 million a year:
Cam Fowler, Anaheim, 5 years @ 4 million per
Tyler Myers, Buffalo, 7 years @ 5.5 million per
Drew Doughty, Los Angeles, 8 years @ 7 million per
Marc Staal, New York Rangers, 5 years @ 3.975 million per
Erik Karlsson, Ottawa, 7 years @ 6.5 million per
Luke Schenn, Philadelphia, 5 years @ 4.5 million per
Victor Hedman, Tampa Bay, 5 years @ 4 million per
Alexander Edler, Vancouver, 4 years @ 3.25 million per
John Carlson, Washington, 6 years @ 3.9 million per
Mike Green, Washington, 4 years @ 5.25 million per
Michael Del Zotto, New York, 2 years @ 2.75 million per

Thanks for this. This thread has been moving way too fast and I have no idea what's going on any more .

 

[Habsawce]

The team still gave up a 3-1 lead in the 3rd. There was a huge drag in the 2nd and 3rd where the team had no energy and a player like PK would have stepped in and created some.

No matter what this team does without him, they're better with him. GET HIM SIGNED!!

 

[Sorinth]

A rehash, this is what we know with reasonable certainty:

- Bergevin has offered Subban 2 years, 2.2 million then 2.9 million for an average of 2.55 million, as reported by Pierre Lebrun and Renaud Lavoie. He said that he is a new GM and he has not had enough time to evaluate Subban's talents, he wants to know if Subban is a genuine professional or not. This is the same or approximately the same offer as last summer.

- Subban and Bergevin are 2-3 million apart. That means Subban wants between 4.55 million and 5.55 million per year. We know that Subban prefers a long-term deal but is willing to sign a short-term deal if it is at fair market value.

- We know that Subban's value based on comparables is around 4-5 million a year:
Cam Fowler, Anaheim, 5 years @ 4 million per
Tyler Myers, Buffalo, 7 years @ 5.5 million per
Drew Doughty, Los Angeles, 8 years @ 7 million per
Marc Staal, New York Rangers, 5 years @ 3.975 million per
Erik Karlsson, Ottawa, 7 years @ 6.5 million per
Luke Schenn, Philadelphia, 5 years @ 4.5 million per
Victor Hedman, Tampa Bay, 5 years @ 4 million per
Alexander Edler, Vancouver, 4 years @ 3.25 million per
John Carlson, Washington, 6 years @ 3.9 million per
Mike Green, Washington, 4 years @ 5.25 million per
Michael Del Zotto, New York, 2 years @ 2.75 million per

One interesting tidbit from the Stubbs interview was when he said that MTL didn't disagree with any of the comparables that Subban/Meehan used.

 

[DAChampion]

One interesting tidbit from the Stubbs interview was when he said that MTL didn't disagree with any of the comparables that Subban/Meehan used.

I agree, but it's hard to interpret that, it sounds something like this:

"We know your client is worth 4.5 million, but we want to pay him 2.55 million anyway."

???

 

[Sorinth]

I agree, but it's hard to interpret that, it sounds something like this:

"We know your client is worth 4.5 million, but we want to pay him 2.55 million anyway."

???

Exactly it's very bizarre.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree, but it's hard to interpret that, it sounds something like this:

"We know your client is worth 4.5 million, but we want to pay him 2.55 million anyway."

???

It's absurd, but you are absolutely right.