Overdrive & Kyper and Bourne - Leafs Discussion Week of May 20

[Daisy Jane]

It's definitely a league cultural thing. Pro jockey players are pretty soft when it comes to fan + media pressure. Only a small few seem to actually like playing in popular markets.

Most guys seemingly prefer southern us markets where nobody cares what they do and can spend their free time fishing or at the beach.

That said, the home town connection + money will still bring guys to Toronto one way or the other

and again if I were Bettman I'd be pissed.
"HI ESPN my league is super duper great."
"well apparently they don't like pressure so we're going to focus on baseball, football and basketball ktnkbye."

i'd legit be throwing this in their faces come the next CBA negotiations.

 

[stealth1]

It's definitely a league cultural thing. Pro jockey players are pretty soft when it comes to fan + media pressure. Only a small few seem to actually like playing in popular markets.

Most guys seemingly prefer southern us markets where nobody cares what they do and can spend their free time fishing or at the beach.

That said, the home town connection + money will still bring guys to Toronto one way or the other

The guys that want to come are usually on the downside of their career. Outside of Tavares, no major star player ever came home. That includes McDavid.

 

[Menzinger]

The guys that want to come are usually on the downside of their career. Outside of Tavares, no major star player ever came home. That includes McDavid.

Though I think our perceptions of free agents actively avoiding Toronto has been warped, to a degree, by the 2004-17 period while the team was always at the bottom of the standings.

They've had a better track record once they started to make the playoffs more frequently

 

[stealth1]

Though I think our perceptions of free agents actively avoiding Toronto has been warped, to a degree, by the 2004-17 period while the team was always at the bottom of the standings.

They've had a better track record once they started to make the playoffs more frequently

Sure they got better bottom 6 guys to come home. Nobody on the level of Tavares as come.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Though I think our perceptions of free agents actively avoiding Toronto has been warped, to a degree, by the 2004-17 period while the team was always at the bottom of the standings.

They've had a better track record once they started to make the playoffs more frequently

wel to be fair people weren't flocking here in the Sundin era either. and we were pretty decent then too.

 

[647Hockey]

Yesterday's show (I think it was yesterday), Kypreos was on a big AM pump job protecting him. Bourne and the other guy were grilling AM and Kypreos kept trying to dance around the bush bringing up other players.

Then Bourne and the other guy called him out on it why he keeps trying to change the topic.

Kypreos then started yelling for a bit and then went to TV commercial.

Kypreos = big AM homer. Probably good buddies with him.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

They don't rush to sign there either (if it's vs the low tax states) those cities have monster horrible taxes.

I live in Boston but grew up in the state of NY; NY taxes are WAY, WAY worse. California taxes are worse than MA as well.

 

[Racer88]

Kyper's number 1 reason why Leafs are where they are today? Replacing Lou with Dubas instead of Hunter. The damage Dubas caused is next level my friends.

Dubas……the hell that keeps on giving and giving

 

[Rare Jewel]

Man, Kyper sure is a mouthpiece for Ferris, isn't he?

 

[capfit9]

Man, Kyper sure is a mouthpiece for Ferris, isn't he?

Dude lost his cool cause Bourne suggested Marner held out for 1 day for his contract. Guy is very unprofessional.

 

[Menzinger]

Man, Kyper sure is a mouthpiece for Ferris, isn't he?

It's not hard to see which media guys likely rely on agents for rumor updates and leaks.

Kyper's number 1 reason why Leafs are where they are today? Replacing Lou with Dubas instead of Hunter. The damage Dubas caused is next level my friends.

Never really got the Hunter nostalgia. Outside of Marner and Matthews he gets credit for Woll. And then a bunch of second round pick busts and Lily. Not exactly a cup contending bunch.

In retrospect would have been better if the Leafs never got involved with any of them

 

[ACC1224]

Man, Kyper sure is a mouthpiece for Ferris, isn't he?

What did he say?

 

[Rare Jewel]

What did he say?

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

wel to be fair people weren't flocking here in the Sundin era either. and we were pretty decent then too.

And had the benefit of being able to double other teams payroll. I miss those days.

 

[WillNy29]

It's definitely a league cultural thing. Pro jockey players are pretty soft when it comes to fan + media pressure. Only a small few seem to actually like playing in popular markets.

Most guys seemingly prefer southern us markets where nobody cares what they do and can spend their free time fishing or at the beach.

That said, the home town connection + money will still bring guys to Toronto one way or the other

yes I agree.

Hockey culture also doesnt like rockstars its very much a nail that stands up gets hammered down type of sport and I think that makes it hard to market. Guys like Patrick Kane chase glory on big teams and the NHL needs more of that rather than everyone wanting to play in Nashville and San Jose so they dont get recognized. Imagine if Jalen Brunson wanted to f*** off to the Orlando Magic or something the NBA wouldn't be where it is if not for the culture of the players wanting to be absolute rockstars in LA, NY, Boston, SF etc. meanwhile here we have p***yes like tkachuk who only want to play in sunrise.

 

[WillNy29]

For those living in Toronto what it’s like there these days ?

The taxes in Ontario truly do suck and that’s a major disadvantage but on the other side they get paid in US dollars and live in Canada.

below if a comment I made about taxes to a different poster and since I struggle to use the quoting function ill paste it here but taxes are not really a big disadvantage here:

I also dont think taxes have the impact people think they do. There's a tax treaty on signing bonuses the caps taxes on signing bonuses for athletes who work out of both USA and Canada at 15%. so take a salary like matthews and he really only makes like 500,000 in salaried income which would be taxable at the rate in ontario BUT on top of that a portion of that is sheltered in RCA and only 42 games + ottawa games are actually charged tax at the rate in Ontario. so your tax bill is way less.

To add perspective to it there's also the concept of time value of money which a lot of financial advisors for big name athletes and celebs will harp on. If you can get majority of your salary upfront it's way better than worrying about tax rates. TMV is essentially the concept the money today is worth more than money tomorrow or PV = FV/(1+r) where PV is present value, FV is future value and r is the intrinsic rate. what this means is the leafs can abuse the hell out of the signing bonus loophole in the CBA to help reduce player taxes and also ensure players get their money upfront rather than over the life of the contract (this means they can invest it right away and have it grow at whatever the market rate is and be that much richer).

Source: Am a qualified CPA and have decent amount of tax experience before switching to financial reporting and core accounting

 

[stealth1]

yes I agree.

Hockey culture also doesnt like rockstars its very much a nail that stands up gets hammered down type of sport and I think that makes it hard to market. Guys like Patrick Kane chase glory on big teams and the NHL needs more of that rather than everyone wanting to play in Nashville and San Jose so they dont get recognized. Imagine if Jalen Brunson wanted to f*** off to the Orlando Magic or something the NBA wouldn't be where it is if not for the culture of the players wanting to be absolute rockstars in LA, NY, Boston, SF etc. meanwhile here we have p***yes like tkachuk who only want to play in sunrise.

I don't totally agree. Tkachuk didn't pick Sunrise, he got traded there. IMO he only wanted out of Calgary once Gaudreau wanted to leave.

As far as avoiding the big markets, I don't think it has anything to do with pressure or not wanting to be marketed. It's just the way they are brought up as hockey players. They are very private and quiet. They don't want the celebrity status as much compared to the NBA or NFL.

IMO players choose markets based on chance to win and market. They will almost always pick a US market over a Canadian one if winning chance is equal.

 

[WillNy29]

I don't totally agree. Tkachuk didn't pick Sunrise, he got traded there. IMO he only wanted out of Calgary once Gaudreau wanted to leave.

As far as avoiding the big markets, I don't think it has anything to do with pressure or not wanting to be marketed. It's just the way they are brought up as hockey players. They are very private and quiet. They don't want the celebrity status as much compared to the NBA or NFL.

IMO players choose markets based on chance to win and market. They will almost always pick a US market over a Canadian one if winning chance is equal.

no he picked sunrise; you can find this information online he narrowed it down to St Louis, Carolina and Sunrise and effectively held Calgary hostage to move him to one of those three places.

they are private and quiet just means theyre not rockstars theyre fragile lol what's the difference between a poor Uruguayan and a farm boy from strathroy? why does the Uruguayan become the face of Liverpool and Barcelona on the international stage for a decade? you dont think he was private and quiet having grown up in the streets?

hockey players dont want to be rockstars theyre mental midgets

 

[stealth1]

no he picked sunrise; you can find this information online he narrowed it down to St Louis, Carolina and Sunrise and effectively held Calgary hostage to move him to one of those three places.

they are private and quiet just means theyre not rockstars theyre fragile lol what's the difference between a poor Uruguayan and a farm boy from strathroy? why does the Uruguayan become the face of Liverpool and Barcelona on the international stage for a decade? you dont think he was private and quiet having grown up in the streets?

hockey players dont want to be rockstars theyre mental midgets

A lot of it is the culture of hockey from when they are kids. They are taught to be this way. Look at McDavid and Crosby. Top players in the league and both very quiet. Has nothing to do with being mental midgets, hockey has never been about being rockstars.

 

[The Masters]

 

[WillNy29]

A lot of it is the culture of hockey from when they are kids. They are taught to be this way. Look at McDavid and Crosby. Top players in the league and both very quiet. Has nothing to do with being mental midgets, hockey has never been about being rockstars.

then they'll always be mental midgets who dont want to be legacy players. would anybody care about the Kobe brand if he played for the Orlando Magic? theres an appeal to play on the Lakers. none of these hockey players can hold a candle to guys like Kobe, MJ, Lebron, Ohtani, Ronaldo, Suarez etc and thats why those guys are global phenoms and no one cares about Tkachuks playing hockey in florida.

that culture sucks and actively nails down players who aren't quiet. thats why I love Patrick Kane he was a f***ing rockstar on a huge market team and became a legacy player

 

[LaPlante94]

no he picked sunrise; you can find this information online he narrowed it down to St Louis, Carolina and Sunrise and effectively held Calgary hostage to move him to one of those three places.

they are private and quiet just means theyre not rockstars theyre fragile lol what's the difference between a poor Uruguayan and a farm boy from strathroy? why does the Uruguayan become the face of Liverpool and Barcelona on the international stage for a decade? you dont think he was private and quiet having grown up in the streets?

hockey players dont want to be rockstars theyre mental midgets

How's this possible though for Tkachuk. This is a guy that went on Jimmy Fallon I believe after the Four Nations or during it. Regular guest on Spittin Chiclets podcast and I believe Pat McAfee show. If those are the 3 teams he narrowed it down to then all 3 have a common theme with 1 also being where he was born. St Louis being where he was born and Berube as the coach. Carolina with Brind'Amour and Florida with Maurice. All play aggressive in your face hockey systems that fit his play style the most imo.

 

[Daisy Jane]

As far as avoiding the big markets, I don't think it has anything to do with pressure or not wanting to be marketed. It's just the way they are brought up as hockey players. They are very private and quiet. They don't want the celebrity status as much compared to the NBA or NFL.

but they want the money it generates. you can't have buttered toast on both sides and expect a clean plate.

 

[WillNy29]

How's this possible though for Tkachuk. This is a guy that went on Jimmy Fallon I believe after the Four Nations or during it. Regular guest on Spittin Chiclets podcast and I believe Pat McAfee show. If those are the 3 teams he narrowed it down to then all 3 have a common theme with 1 also being where he was born. St Louis being where he was born and Berube as the coach. Carolina with Brind'Amour and Florida with Maurice. All play aggressive in your face hockey systems that fit his play style the most imo.

no its because he's a Weiner and doesnt like the bright lights. I'll give him st Louis because it's his home town but Berube's leafs didnt really look aggressive to me this year. Brindamour's teams aren't aggressive in your face theyre just shot volume monsters

 

[WillNy29]

but they want the money it generates. you can't have buttered toast on both sides and expect a clean plate.

I agree with this. they're soft and scared of big market pressure.

imagine being sports royalty and bringing a championship to the NY Knicks or TML and being a rockstar while doing it, there would be no other high like it, you would be immortalized