Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?

[edog37]

And I love it when posters are faced with a fact they don’t like so they run around it and try to justify them still being right. Is saying the fact that he played on a dynasty insinuating that Ovechkin hasn’t had great teams? That’s how you have to make it to even have a point.

Is bringing up the fact that Trottier centered Bossy really got you so stumped that you have to try to make it equivalent to Backstrom or even Kuzy? Sorry but he had one of the best centers of all time driving his line, and that always helps. He isn’t a product of Trottier, but your out to lunch if you honestly believe it had zero affect on his goal scoring.

You just tried to compare Backstrom to Trottier, in the end that’s something your going to have to deal with as someone who thinks they know hockey.

1) Ovechkin in no way shape or form played on “similar” teams to the Islander dynasty. Talent wise, also not close. Try again.

2)adjusted goals has Ovechkin 3rd and Bossy 61st. He also didn’t stand out or was as dominant as Ovechkin. Try again.

3)I mean leading the league in goals 6 out of the last 8 years isn’t consistent?

4) So it’s a push between Trottier and Backstrom, got it

Just because you continue ignoring facts and try to spin your own agenda while continuing to proclaim that, doesn’t make it true.

just because you continue to conflate doesn’t make it true. I’ve given you the facts, check them out on NHL.com

 

[GreatGonzo]

I’m pointing out the ridiculous notion that Ovechkin gets a pass because he “only plays” with Backstrom. Backstrom & Trottier are comparable players talent wise.

In what universe are they comparable talent wise. I don’t even think you realize what your even saying. It’s nonsense.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

more excuses for a recency bias....got it.

You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I gave you the records you just refuse to accept the facts. Bossy was better...by a large degree. Hell I’d put Brett Hull ahead of Ovechkin

Crosby is 5th GOAT, Hull better than Ovechkin, ... if this isn't trolling, it's a demonstration of a lack of awareness about what guys really did throughout their careers. The only thing Hull has over Ovechkin is that 86-goal season which should go down as the most outstanding single-season effort in NHL history. Beyond that and Hull winning the Cup twice (once in a clearly supporting role), Ovechkin's accomplishments trump the hell out of Hull's AINEC.

just because you continue to conflate doesn’t make it true. I’ve given you the facts, check them out on NHL.com

I've given you facts. Check them out.

 

[GreatGonzo]

just because you continue to conflate doesn’t make it true. I’ve given you the facts, check them out on NHL.com

Again, what facts? I’ve pointed out numerous facts and all you have come up with is that Trottier and Backstrom are on the same level.

I’m sure many of us would like to hear more of your expertise.

 

[edog37]

What records?
-Most goal scoring titles: Ovechkin
-Most goals scored by a LWer: Ovechkin
Why ignore these records.

The same way Backstrom and Trottier are similar talents? Sure bud

[mod] I listed them a few posts back. Go & read them. And yes, talent wise, Backstrom & Trottier are comparable.

 

[edog37]

You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.

then you would be wrong

 

[GreatGonzo]

[mod] I listed them a few posts back. Go & read them. And yes, talent wise, Backstrom & Trottier are comparable.

I guess Kuzy and Mario Lemieux are similar in talent too. Damn, Ovechkin has really had some all time greats playing with him.

even Carlson, I mean Potvin and him are clearly comparable. Carlson is like this generations Bobby Orr.

 

[King In The North]

Without a doubt.

 

[edog37]

In what universe are they comparable talent wise. I don’t even think you realize what your even saying. It’s nonsense.

Talent wise they very much are. Both are elite playmakers & both were high value prospects. Trottier clearly has the better resume but what they bring to the teams is comparable. Or are you suggesting that Backstrom was made by Ovechkin which would be absurd.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

then you would be wrong

Oh, well. I guess that settles it then.

I mean, several people are telling you how far off base you are and keep presenting information cutting down point after point you make - but yeah, it can't possibly be you that might be off base. No, I'm the only person who's right - it's all 137 of you that are wrong!

Talent wise they very much are. Both are elite playmakers & both were high value prospects.

1. This is irrelevant.

2. Even if we wanted to pretend it was, Backstrom was taken 4th overall while Trottier was 22nd. The Islanders thought so highly of Trottier, they took Clark Gillies (who's in the HHOF but by any normal objective measurement - so, nothing that you'd come up with - was a lesser player than Trottier) ahead of Trottier. And, Trottier has accomplished more than Backstrom who's never getting to 6 Cups or 500 goals and is incredibly unlikely to ever win a Ross or a Hart at this point in his career, much less win both.

You're embarrassing yourself at this point. Quit digging.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Last 4 games? 0 goals. 0 points. 23 shots on net. -5 and the Caps are 1-3. Typical OV. Has a few game massive burst and then disappears. Wash, rinse, repeat.

No.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Last 4 games? 0 goals. 0 points. 23 shots on net. -5 and the Caps are 1-3. Typical OV. Has a few game massive burst and then disappears. Wash, rinse, repeat.

No.

Because 4 game sample sizes are the perfect way of measuring all time talent

I guess when Crosby was pointless for 4 games and was a -7 back in November, he lost his All time ranking, right?

your vendetta against Ovechkin continues to amuse me.

 

[edog37]

I’m suggesting that Backstrom isnt even the same league as Trottier

Answer me this, is Kuzy similar to Steve Yzerman?

the irony

no, but now you’re trying to argue that Backstrom is a lesser player despite his high draft pick status & importance to the Caps...

 

[TheAngryHank]

Because 4 game sample sizes are the perfect way of measuring all time talent

I guess when Crosby was pointless for 4 games and was a -7 back in November, he lost his All time ranking, right?

your vendetta against Ovechkin continues to amuse me.

Its not uncommon for players to stall on the door step of a milestone, he has the yips .

 

[ImporterExporter]

Because 4 game sample sizes are the perfect way of measuring all time talent

I guess when Crosby was pointless for 4 games and was a -7 back in November, he lost his All time ranking, right?

your vendetta against Ovechkin continues to amuse me.

Well until people start actually looking at shot volume, efficiency, goal quality and defensive impact (there is none) as it pertains to OV then I'll continue to bash him as an overrated, one way, wholly dependent trigger man. Because that's more or less what he is today. The last time OV was even in the conversation for best player in the world was a decade ago.

And people make threads like this? Because he scores a lot of goals taking a lot more shots than anyone else while playing zero defense?

You have people in here saying Gordie Howe is overrated and shouldn't be in the big 4.

That's all i need to know about the main boards and the lack of general knowledge as it pertains to hockey history.

 

[Sentinel]

more excuses for a recency bias....got it.

Translation: "I have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this discussion." Goodbye.

Backstrom & Trottier are comparable players talent wise.

 

[edog37]

Translation: "I have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this discussion." Goodbye.

more like accurately describing the group think permeating this thread...

 

[GreatGonzo]

no, but now you’re trying to argue that Backstrom is a lesser player despite his high draft pick status & importance to the Caps...

Backstrom is actually better than Trottier, Like Carlson is better than Potvin. But Ovechkin isn’t even close to Bossy, that’s for sure....

Well until people start actually looking at shot volume, efficiency, goal quality and defensive impact (there is none) as it pertains to OV then I'll continue to bash him as an overrated, one way, wholly dependent trigger man. Because that's more or less what he is today. The last time OV was even in the conversation for best player in the world was a decade ago.

And people make threads like this? Because he scores a lot of goals taking a lot more shots than anyone else while playing zero defense?

You have people in here saying Gordie Howe is overrated and shouldn't be in the big 4.

That's all i need to know about the main boards and the lack of general knowledge as it pertains to hockey history.

You mean until people decide to be bias and favor Crosby more and filter everything that Ovechkin does through a Crosby only fanboy mentality? Sorry if people have trouble hopping on your salty wagon, but you have plenty of other posters that despise Ovechkin and love Crosby just as much as you do, maybe run along and go find them. I’m sure you will feel right at home. But then again you HAVE to go into Ovechkin threads and spout off nonesense in your bias ways in order to feel accomplished and like you really stuck it to Ovechkin!

And people like you come into threads like this because your bored and need to defend Crosby’s honor at any means.

I don’t know what “people” you are referring to, but if your that gullible then I don’t know what to tell you.

“lack of general knowledge.” Whatever you gotta say and think to feel superior and like you don’t have an agenda against Ovechkin and clearly favor Crosby to the point where you will come to the main boards just to try to start arguments because you have nothing better to do.

I’m sure Crosby appreciates the support

 

[GreatGonzo]

Its not uncommon for players to stall on the door step of a milestone, he has the yips .

I agree. I was pointing out the obvious and bias flaws in his entire argument. If 4 games is enough to dethrone anyone out of the top 10, then Crosby isn’t a top 10 player either.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Last 4 games? 0 goals. 0 points. 23 shots on net. -5 and the Caps are 1-3. Typical OV. Has a few game massive burst and then disappears. Wash, rinse, repeat.

No.

Yup soon he will be under a ppg again. Same old same old. Crosby gearing up with 36 points in 29 games looking to push for a 4th cup.

 

[Khomutov]

Yup soon he will be under a ppg again. Same old same old. Crosby gearing up with 36 points in 29 games looking to push for a 4th cup.

I don't think so. Last playoffs Crosby had 1 point in 4 games, was - 4 and the Pens got swept.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Talent wise they very much are. Both are elite playmakers & both were high value prospects. Trottier clearly has the better resume but what they bring to the teams is comparable. Or are you suggesting that Backstrom was made by Ovechkin which would be absurd.

First, this isnt't a good comparison stylistically. For one thing, Backstrom is clearly a pass-first centre, whereas Trottier was a very good goal-scorer in his own right (he finished 5th in the league in goals two years in a row). Trottier was also a much more aggressive player - he was a hard hitter and was much rougher than his modest PIM totals would suggest. Backstrom is a much more passive player. But let's briefly run down Trottier's accomplishments.

Bryan Trottier won the Hart trophy and Art Ross in 1979. He was the second-highest forward in Hart trophy three times - 1978 (behind Guy Lafleur), then twice behind peak Gretzky (1982 an 1984).

In 1980, Trottier won the Conn Smythe and led the playoffs in scoring. He led the playoffs in scoring again in 1982. On the star-studded 1981 Canada Cup roster, he finished 1 point behind Gretzky in scoring (tied with several others).

Trottier was a fantastic defensive player, peaking at 2nd in Selke trophy voting (in 1984).

Trottier had a higher peak (by far), he was a better goal-scorer (by far), a better playmaker, a better playoff performer (by far), was better defensively, and was a much more aggressive, physical player.

No disrespect to Backstrom but frankly the comparison is laughable.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I don't think so. Last playoffs Crosby had 1 point in 4 games, was - 4 and the Pens got swept.

186 points in 164 games top 10 all time. I’ll give him the benifit

 

[Varan]

on a bit of a slump atm but he'll be back. just goes to show that he is the MVP of the caps - no production, they lose 3/4 of their games

 

[Ted Hoffman]

[MOD]

Talent wise they very much are. Both are elite playmakers & both were high value prospects. Trottier clearly has the better resume but what they bring to the teams is comparable. Or are you suggesting that Backstrom was made by Ovechkin which would be absurd.

@Hockey Outsider was devastating in tearing this thought to shreds - but I'll take it yet a step farther with a prior comment from you.

Even if we were to buy your misguided claims about how virtually no other leading goal-scorers in the last ~14 years are HOF worthy and that somehow Ovechkin's Rocket total is inflated as a result (which completely dismisses the idea that Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer of this era), adding more HOF-worthy goal scorers to the mix and decreasing the number of Rockets that Ovechkin has won would actually strengthen the argument for him since it's exactly the argument you've used to buff up Bossy's work. And, more HOF-worthy goal-scorers in the current era still wouldn't change anything about Ovechkin's career stats (that thing you're obsessively fixated on when they support what you want to claim and you wholly ignore otherwise).

You're cherry-picking which data everyone should consider and which data should be ignored, and it shows how intellectually dishonest you're being.