Ovechkin Milestone Thread - Countdown to 894 (Continued)

[Golden_Jet]

You say that like it's supposed to bother me.

He's got 26g and 12a in 32 games vs the Jets. He should calm down on the goals, he gonna get a rep as the all time best sniper if he keeps this crap up.

56 goals in his career against the Jets

Alex Ovechkin Stats Against Each Team Career | StatMuse

Alex Ovechkin stats against each team career

www.statmuse.com

 

[Voight]

Here's hoping he breaks the record on home ice. That would make the feat even more epic.

*goalie in, patented OV one-timer on the PP would be cool

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if the goalie pulls a Favre in that scenario.

 

[abax44]

56 goals in his career against the Jets

Alex Ovechkin Stats Against Each Team Career | StatMuse

Alex Ovechkin stats against each team career

www.statmuse.com

You know they weren't always the Jets, yeah?

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if the goalie pulls a Favre in that scenario.

I don't football. What's a Favre?

 

[Voight]

You know they weren't always the Jets, yeah?


I don't football. What's a Favre?

Michael Strahan set the single season sack record in 2001 in the last game of the season. Favre - the other teams QB - pretty much fell down on his own and let Strahan fall on him in order to get the sack. Essentially let him do it as a freebie.

So this would be like Ovy shooting glove hand any a goalie and the goalie not raising his glove and letting the puck fly in. Or him on a breakaway undressing the goalie and the goalie not putting up much of a fight.

 

[abax44]

Michael Strahan set the single season sack record in 2001 in the last game of the season. Favre - the other teams QB - pretty much fell down on his own and let Strahan fall on him in order to get the sack. Essentially let him do it as a freebie.

So this would be like Ovy shooting glove hand any a goalie and the goalie not raising his glove and letting the puck fly in. Or him on a breakaway undressing the goalie and the goalie not putting up much of a fight.

Oh that's lame. I'd want to be the guy that stopped him, not gave him a free pass (in either situation). I also wouldn't want someone to just give it to me. OV is getting the record regardless, no need to give him a freebie.

 

[steve141]

Beliveau, Harvey, Richard, Plante - all 1956 Canadians. All Ranked ahead of Ovechkin which would make Ovechkin the 5th greatest player on that team. That was the history forum consensus.

To be fair to the HOH board, that list was made in 2018. Since then Ovy has won two more Rockets, and increased his career goal total by 45%. I'm pretty sure he would be higher ranked if the list was redone today.

 

[bobbyking]

pray it isn't a empty net

 

[BallardEra]

pray it isn't a empty net

I think Ovechkin will not go on the ice if he's at 894 and the opposition net is empty.

 

[sabresfan129103]

If he didn't get injured he would have broken it this year. It's gonna be close if he does it this year or not. May have to wait until game 5 or 6 of next season.

 

[wetcoast]

You seem to view this as preposterous. Good. So do I.

Beliveau, Harvey, Richard, Plante - all 1956 Canadians. All Ranked ahead of Ovechkin which would make Ovechkin the 5th greatest player on that team. That was the history forum consensus.

People can go and look at those players resumes for themselves and that was before the in 18-19 season so Ovi has added to his resume since then and has most likely passed Plante (who was 19th and Ovi was 21st) the other 3 were 6,7 and 8 and I agree that it's unlikely that 3 players from the same team over literally the same decade are top 10 players of all time and I would put Richard out fore the top 10 and frankly I think many HOH voters would as well when it is revisited.

Of course, one of the regulars had Ovechkin ranked 59th all time, behind the 4 players listed above and also behind Dickie Moore, Bernie Geoffrion, and Henri Richard (all on that same team) - which would make Ovechkin the 8th greatest player on the 1956 Canadiens - like I said:

One guy out of 20 something and then you come to sweeping conclusions?

Thread 'Voting Record - quoipourquoi, Canadiens1958, steve141'

Apr 11, 2019

There’s 32 of these, so in order to avoid cluttering HOH, I’m thinking 3-per-thread. All participants should be getting the survey soon too. And I’ll be adding the linking to the main thread on Monday or Tuesday.

Voter	Rank	Player	Points		1		2
quoipourquoi	1	Wayne Gretzky	120	1	Wayne Gretzky	1	Patrick Roy
quoipourquoi	2	Gordie Howe	119	2	Gordie Howe	2	Maurice Richard

[TBODY] ...

• quoipourquoi
• Replies: 142
• Forum: The History of Hockey

It's interesting that when I simply say what the result was, people act as if I am being unfair. It's as if they know it's a poor result but they want to stand behind it anyway.



"Shoot first" - sure. I have no problem with that. But that is quite different from what the history forum regulars claimed. (and you seemingly know that, which is why you felt the need to change it from "only" to "first" - which is a distortion unto itself).

Once again most of those people were talking about the time frame I mentioned and the facts back that narrative up.

"Shoot-only" is blatantly false - especially for a player that is top 3 in hits, yet the history forum regulars doubled and tripled down on it. Not a single one of them chimed in to say "hey maybe this is a bit of an exaggeration." They all just rolled with it.

Nevermind that the project was evaluating total careers and so there is no rationale for ignoring the first 6 seasons as you've attempted to do here.

They obviously did evaluate total careers as Ovi from 11-12 to 17-18 had this stat line

528-306-202-508 (-1) 2370 SOG


First in goals and SOG by a large amount and tied for 52nd in assists so the "shoot first comments had facts and the eye test behind them.

Which would not have placed him in the top 60 players so once again you are concluding something that demonstrably didn't happen.

Talking about the bias in the HOH section with your posts here and before kind of look like projection to many.

 

[M4lk1n71]

Exactly! The bias is getting out of hand.

 

[abax44]

@Golden_Jet you didn't know they moved from Atlanta...

 

[wetcoast]

A little detour for a burner/troll account and obsolete/biased forum promotion...

Back to OV, couple of all-time lists of less "fantasy" stats which weigh goals a bit higher than secondary assists.

OV recently moved up to third place in hockey-reference.com Offensive Point Shares list

View attachment 973396

and sixth in Goals Created list

View attachment 973397

Well that's to be expected as you rightly point out that both stats weigh goals heavier than assists and Ovechkin has been considered the best goal scorer of all time by many for a while now..

 

[Golden_Jet]

@Golden_Jet you didn't know they moved from Atlanta...

He still feasts on the jets, pro rates to a 67 goal season when he plays them. .
He’s still a great goal scorer, whether you like it or not.

 

[Fitzy]

pray it isn't a empty net

I mean, isn't he also pretty much certain to break the record even accounting for empty netters? Reminds me of when Brodeur broke the wins record with extra shootout wins, and we all just waited until he broke the era-controlled record and congratulated him again.

 

[kugelbahn]

Well that's to be expected as you rightly point out that both stats weigh goals heavier than assists and Ovechkin has been considered the best goal scorer of all time by many for a while now..

yep. I am glad we are at Acceptance stage of Kübler-Ross Grief Cycle

 

[Toby91ca]

I mean, isn't he also pretty much certain to break the record even accounting for empty netters? Reminds me of when Brodeur broke the wins record with extra shootout wins, and we all just waited until he broke the era-controlled record and congratulated him again.

Yes, but let's keep it at the simple record. People will always bring up "yeah but" type arguments. For example....he's currently 7 ENG's ahead of Gretzky, let's say he doesn't score another one except for goal number 895. Ok, people could say, yeah but Gretzky has 7 more goals still with a goalie in the net....fine...then he scores another 8 goals with a goalie in the net....maybe then people say "yeah, well, he has 27 OT goals....Gretzky didn't get the chance to play 3v3 OT....then you wait for him to score another 27 goals. You'll then have people talking about total goals including playoffs and total professional goals.

Let's just be happy with goals are goals....you can easily suggest Gretzky scored his goals at time when it was easier to score and that offsets all those other comments.

 

[Midnight Judges]

To be fair to the HOH board, that list was made in 2018. Since then Ovy has won two more Rockets, and increased his career goal total by 45%. I'm pretty sure he would be higher ranked if the list was redone today.

Ovie's career at that point (as of age 33) was already quite comparable to Bobby Hull's - who they ranked 5th.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ovie's career at that point (as of age 33) was already quite comparable to Bobby Hull's - who they ranked 5th.

Also season was only about 70 games when Hull was doing it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

First in goals and SOG by a large amount and tied for 52nd in assists so the "shoot first comments had facts and the eye test behind them.

This is now the second time you have misquoted the argument.

Nobody is taking issue with "shoot first."

The falsehood is the history forum regulars calling Ovechkin a "shoot-only player."

Key word "only."

As in:

nothing more besides; solely or exclusively.

Also season was only about 70 games when Hull was doing it.

That's fair, and adjustments rightfully account for that IMO (which is one of many reasons why adjusted stats are good).

Hull's career PPG and GPG were quite similar to Ovie's, as was the average scoring environment (meaning PPG and GPG are comparable relative to league wide scoring).

If we debate the two of them through age 33 - it's a good debate.

 

[Dingo]

Mitch Marner is 10th all time in assists per game played, ahead of both. With his next assist he hits 500 by age 27.

thats a good call.

And Matthews has winger numbers. Bit of a flip flop here... maybe like St. Louis and Stamkos 15 years ago.

 

[kugelbahn]

Yes, but let's keep it at the simple record. People will always bring up "yeah but" type arguments. For example....he's currently 7 ENG's ahead of Gretzky, let's say he doesn't score another one except for goal number 895. Ok, people could say, yeah but Gretzky has 7 more goals still with a goalie in the net....fine...then he scores another 8 goals with a goalie in the net....maybe then people say "yeah, well, he has 27 OT goals....Gretzky didn't get the chance to play 3v3 OT....then you wait for him to score another 27 goals. You'll then have people talking about total goals including playoffs and total professional goals.

Let's just be happy with goals are goals....you can easily suggest Gretzky scored his goals at time when it was easier to score and that offsets all those other comments.

Good examples, thats why somewhere around 920G would be nice and is quite achievable (25G over 82 pace if he plays all remaining games under current contract)

 

[Dirty Mind]

I’m an Oilers fan but I can’t wait for Ovechkin to pass Gretzky. It’s great for the sport.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't know how you can keep the greatest goalscorer of all time in both league leads and career numbers, with 3 Harts to boot, out of Top10 of all time.

BTW, Esposito continues to be underrated. Also a Top10 player.

 

[Fantomas]

Beliveau, Harvey, Richard, Plante - all 1956 Canadians. All Ranked ahead of Ovechkin which would make Ovechkin the 5th greatest player on that team. That was the history forum consensus.

Oh this is just cringe, lol.

As much as I love the old Canadiens teams, there's absolutely no way. Only Richard has an argument because he was such a great playoff performer. But otherwise highly inconsistent and had some bad seasons. By the time the Habs went on that 5-year run, he was past his prime.