Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Toby91ca]

This just in, 38 year old is no longer a top 10 player in the NHL.

I totally agree and think Ovechkin had done just fine this year.....looked hard to watch at times earlier in the year and perhaps in the playoffs, but looked fine considering stage of career.

My comment was related to the notion that his team is absolutely terrible and he put them on his back and dragged them to the playoffs.

 

[Zine]

I totally agree and think Ovechkin had done just fine this year.....looked hard to watch at times earlier in the year and perhaps in the playoffs, but looked fine considering stage of career.

My comment was related to the notion that his team is absolutely terrible and he put them on his back and dragged them to the playoffs.

Ovechkin and Strome pretty much did.
The team scored 220 goals. Without those 2 the Caps would resemble San Jose with better defense.
And it's not like the Caps were anything special defensively either.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's not a huge number at all. He didn't score a third of their goals, he had points on 29% of the team's goals. In comparison, if you looked at the leading scorers for each team (even though Ovechkin wasn't one) and sorted by who factored into the most goals as a percentage of team goals, Ovechkin would be 22nd out of 32 teams.

Top 10:

1 - Kucherov - 49%
2 - MacKinnon - 46%
3 - McDavid - 45%
4 - Panarin - 43%
5 - Pastrnak - 41%
6 - Kaprizov - 38%
7 - Miller - 37%
8 - Crosby - 37%
9 - Thomas - 36%
10 - Matthews - 35%

Bedard, even though he missed 14 games, was at 34%.

Kucherov did not score half of TB’s goals. Re-do it with goals scored man. Matthews is around 22-23 percent.


Edit: You gave me the 29 percent, I’m assuming that was points? I’m not going to check, I’ll take your word for it. Regardless 30 percent is still pretty damn important. No it’s not 50, but it’s still a third of the offense. They don’t make it without him.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

guys didnt even bother trying this year in the playoffs. not sure how anyone ever puts him above Crosby when he literally helped the other team more than his own this year

I understand he's old but he can atleast put his stick on the ice and try

its just so obvious that he didnt care about the playoffs and his only remaining goal is beating the record.

New York is the best team in the league and Washington is the worst club in the playoffs.

Yeah, he didn’t care…

 

[Arthur Morgan]

New York is the best team in the league and Washington is the worst club in the playoffs.

Yeah, he didn’t care…

how else could you explain him not trying at all? he could atleast keep his stick on the ice in the defensive zone. or skate. it really looked like he just really didnt care

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

how else could you explain him not trying at all?

hmm… how else do I prove your false premise? I’m not sure man.

 

[Randyne]

guys didnt even bother trying this year in the playoffs. not sure how anyone ever puts him above Crosby when he literally helped the other team more than his own this year

By running away from minuses to keep his precious pluses Sid literally kicked his team out from the PO. His fans are blind, but his teammates know this and play better and inspired w/o Sid.

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[wetcoast]

how else could you explain him not trying at all? he could atleast keep his stick on the ice in the defensive zone. or skate. it really looked like he just really didnt care

I disagree with the "he didn't care" part of it.

It was pretty clear from watching him play through the entire season that he is old and a liability 5 on 5 out there and the intensity picks up in the playoffs and an older slower player can't ramp up what isn't there.

Also the notion that Ovi carried the team in his back or somehow was awesome offensively that a select poster is stating is also far fetched.

At this point he is a 38 year old player with a ton of Mike's who still has very good scoring instincts but the other parts of his game are well below average and he has to be used accordingly.

If the age thing deceases his skills even more the record might take longer than some expected.

 

[Toby91ca]

Kucherov did not score half of TB’s goals. Re-do it with goals scored man. Matthews is around 22-23 percent.


Edit: You gave me the 29 percent, I’m assuming that was points? I’m not going to check, I’ll take your word for it. Regardless 30 percent is still pretty damn important. No it’s not 50, but it’s still a third of the offense. They don’t make it without him.

Yes, points and no, 29% isn't that significant, especially when playing for a bad team.....Bedard was 34% or something and he missed 14 games. And yes, I know OV is at the end of his career and yes, I know people are saying he should be compared with the top players in the game. My only point was the comment after comment about him dragging the team into the playoffs....that makes it sound like the team totally sucks and he put everyone on his back and dragged them there. If that were the case, he would have been factoring into a lot more than 29% of their goals.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes, points and no, 29% isn't that significant, especially when playing for a bad team.....Bedard was 34% or something and he missed 14 games. And yes, I know OV is at the end of his career and yes, I know people are saying he should be compared with the top players in the game. My only point was the comment after comment about him dragging the team into the playoffs....that makes it sound like the team totally sucks and he put everyone on his back and dragged them there. If that were the case, he would have been factoring into a lot more than 29% of their goals.

29 percent is great, esp when most of that production is goals.

This was a bad year for Ovechkin. Nobody would argue otherwise but that was due to his shooting percentage.

Once it normalized He cuaght fire and yes he absolutely dragged them to the playoffs. Even in a bad year he was a huge difference maker.

 

[Old Gregg]

By running away from minuses to keep his precious pluses Sid literally kicked his team out from the PO. His fans are blind, but his teammates know this and play better and inspired w/o Sid.
View attachment 862632

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Are players not supposed to change during OT? both goals shouldve been stopped by the goalie

 

[SkinsFan09]

Also the notion that Ovi carried the team in his back or somehow was awesome offensively that a select poster is stating is also far fetched.

I don't think any skater on that roster put the team on fully their back. Lindgren is the biggest reason they made it in.

But effectiveness isn't just about Corsi and possession nerd stats. A player who can be invisible and then just snap two goals in when given space is a great equalizer in many cases. Ovechkin was bad 5 on 5 this year on a roster that was all bad 5 on 5 this year. And thus if you can steal that back on the PP that is valuable.

The other Capitals with bad 5 v 5 numbers can't also put home goals in a flash or go on 50-goal pace streaks.

I think the "is he still valuable" argument is more nuanced than people try to make it. He still provides value but is obviously a very flawed player at this stage of his career. There's a ton of mileage on those legs.

 

[Toby91ca]

29 percent is great, esp when most of that production is goals.

This was a bad year for Ovechkin. Nobody would argue otherwise but that was due to his shooting percentage.

Once it normalized He cuaght fire and yes he absolutely dragged them to the playoffs. Even in a bad year he was a huge difference maker.

Agree to disagree a bit here I guess.

Here's a comparison I use and perhaps more of an argument as to why Kucherov shouldn't be looked as such a huge MVP favourite because his teams sucks otherswise...so far ahead of #2, etc.

OV = 14% of team's goals and in on 29% of team's goals

Point = 16% of team's goals and in on 31% of team's goals

Stamkos = 14% of team's goals and in on 28% of team's goals

With those stats, and not saying you are saying this, you can't really say OV dragged his team into the playoffs in heroic fashion while at the same time saying Kucherov is clearly MVP because he had very little help.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

Not really convinced by the claim that an offense only winger who got outproduced by Dylan Strome while playing 120 more minutes on the powerplay than Strome, "carried" his team to anything

 

[DRW895]

Not really convinced by the claim that an offense only winger who got outproduced by Dylan Strome while playing 120 more minutes on the powerplay than Strome, "carried" his team to anything

Washington scored 0 PP goals in 3 games, when Ovechkin was out. Bas news for "Strome fan" - guy who was pushed out from Arizona and Chicago

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agree to disagree a bit here I guess.

Here's a comparison I use and perhaps more of an argument as to why Kucherov shouldn't be looked as such a huge MVP favourite because his teams sucks otherswise...so far ahead of #2, etc.

OV = 14% of team's goals and in on 29% of team's goals

Point = 16% of team's goals and in on 31% of team's goals

Stamkos = 14% of team's goals and in on 28% of team's goals

With those stats, and not saying you are saying this, you can't really say OV dragged his team into the playoffs in heroic fashion while at the same time saying Kucherov is clearly MVP because he had very little help.

You can certainly say he dragged that team in at the end of the year. He caught fire and is the only reason that team made it.

 

[wetcoast]

You can certainly say he dragged that team in at the end of the year. He caught fire and is the only reason that team made it.

One certainly can say anything....doesn't make it true though?

One needs to challenge and critically look at that assertion.

Also this isn't about Ovi's season but rather what you are calling here and when one says something then critically looks at it then what you are saying doesn't make a lot of sense. Ovi was minus player in every month except one and he was getting premium offensive zone starts and yes he did score some PP goals but as noted that's with a lot of extra PP TOI.

There is no problem with his season given his age but your narrative simply doesn't fit reality here and we should all stick to the goals record in this thread anyways and if people want to analyze or praise his playing style or importance we could do that in another thread right?

 

[Toby91ca]

You can certainly say he dragged that team in at the end of the year. He caught fire and is the only reason that team made it.

But this is my entire point.....how can you say he's the only reason? Even towards the end of the season, after the all-star break when he got hot, Strome still led the team in scoring during that period. Argue if you want as to who was more important, but suggesting he was the "only reason" is simply BS.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But this is my entire point.....how can you say he's the only reason? Even towards the end of the season, after the all-star break when he got hot, Strome still led the team in scoring during that period. Argue if you want as to who was more important, but suggesting he was the "only reason" is simply BS.

No player is ever the “only” reason. It’s a phrase that’s used when a player leads the way - not meant that literally.

But yes, he was the principle reason for them making it. 23 goals in his last 36 games. Without that they don’t come close.

Please don’t tell me that Dylan Strome is the reason he scored those goals. He’s been scoring forever now.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

One certainly can say anything....doesn't make it true though?

One needs to challenge and critically look at that assertion.

Also this isn't about Ovi's season but rather what you are calling here and when one says something then critically looks at it then what you are saying doesn't make a lot of sense. Ovi was minus player in every month except one and he was getting premium offensive zone starts and yes he did score some PP goals but as noted that's with a lot of extra PP TOI.

There is no problem with his season given his age but your narrative simply doesn't fit reality here and we should all stick to the goals record in this thread anyways and if people want to analyze or praise his playing style or importance we could do that in another thread right?

You were sitting talking about how ice edible it would be if Crosby dragged the Pens to the playoffs. You went on and on about how OV was done and Crosby was aging better. The the shooting percentage normalized (as I told you it would) and OV dragged his team to the playoffs instead.

Not surprising at all to see you here again downplaying things.

You were wrong. Accept it.

 

[wetcoast]

You were sitting talking about how ice edible it would be if Crosby dragged the Pens to the playoffs. You went on and on about how OV was done and Crosby was aging better. The the shooting percentage normalized (as I told you it would) and OV dragged his team to the playoffs instead.

Not surprising at all to see you here again downplaying things.

You were wrong. Accept it.

Wrong thread and also not addressing that you haven't backed up your point here but alas if you want to continue donut in another thread this is about the goals record.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Wrong thread and also not addressing that you haven't backed up your point here but alas if you want to continue donut in another thread this is about the goals record.

No man, you have an axe to grind with this player. Specifically because you feel he undermines Crosby. You’ve done it repeatedly.

Once again, 23 goal in 36 games. That’s the primary reason the Capitals made the playoffs. Not Ryan Strome. Not luck…

Give the man his due.

 

[wetcoast]

No man, you have an axe to grind with this player. Specifically because you feel he undermines Crosby. You’ve done it repeatedly.

Yet you are the guy bringing this up not me right?

Once again, 23 goal in 36 games. That’s the primary reason the Capitals made the playoffs. Not Ryan Strome. Not luck…

He scored goals yes but he wasn't a play driver by any means and the stats backed up that eye test

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Give the man his due.

People have and the pushback here isn't on Ovi it's your misuse of the term carried.

but this has been pointed out to you in many different ways and is better served elsewhere.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yet you are the guy bringing this up not me right?



He scored goals yes but he wasn't a play driver by any means and the stats backed up that eye test

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

People have and the pushback here isn't on Ovi it's your misuse of the term carried.

but this has been pointed out to you in many different ways and is better served elsewhere.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Nobody cares if he’s a play driver. The whole point of driving plays is to score goals. If you can score goals that’s all that matters.

He absolutely carried that club to the playoffs.

Give the man his due.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

Washington scored 0 PP goals in 3 games, when Ovechkin was out. Bas news for "Strome fan" - guy who was pushed out from Arizona and Chicago

Ovechkin was on the ice for almost 95% of his teams powerplay minutes this season just for the Capitals to finish with a below average powerplay. What an impressive "carry".