Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Firsov99]

(Lost more than a few brain cells reading the last few pages of this thread... Yikes.)

For those of you who follow the Caps (I don't), what's the difference in Ovechkin's play since the All Star break that he's suddenly producing again (for now, anyway)?

Is he (a) not noticeably doing anything different, except scoring more, which perhaps suggests his body needed a rest?; or (b) is he doing something noticeably different?

He is moving a LOT better now. His shifts are much more active, he is more involved in each play. As a result, he creates more space and opportunities for himself and his teammates. Before the All Star break he looked like he had very little energy in his tank, or maybe something was restricting his movement. He used to look completely spent after a 30 second shift.

Old bodies do not recover from injuries/fatigue as fast as the young ones. So, he must have healed something up during his protracted All Star break. Good for him! And the Caps of course.

 

[BallardEra]

Is he (a) not noticeably doing anything different, except scoring more, which perhaps suggests his body needed a rest?; or (b) is he doing something noticeably different?

He has 22 points in his last 19 games and is moving a lot better out there.

I'd say he was trying to play through something and instead of doing that, he should have shut it down for whatever time he needed in order to get better.

 

[SkinsFan09]

I know being factual is seen that way by some...wonder why?

He will break Gretzky record but facts shouldn't be abused like they were in that post.

It would be one thing it that missed ENG by Hathaway was in the final game of that series but Florida won the next 2 so it was descriptively inaccurate.

No it's because in quite literally every thread involving Ovechkin you come into to demean his accomplishments. Been doing it for years. Weird.

If Hathaway puts that EN in, they're up 3-1 and now in a position where 90.5% of teams advance. Now I suppose you could point out that the Capitals franchise is actually horrible when up 3-1 but in the post-finally winning a cup, pressure is off era I would have bet on them to advance.

Florida got a massive jolt of energy coming back to rip that game away from Washington, it completely changed the entire series.

 

[Liga]

Yzerman - better
Sakic - better
Forsberg - would have been better if not for injuries
Lindros - would have been better if not for injuries
Trottier - better
Bossy - would have been better if not for injuries

Crosby and Ovetjkin are bigger than they.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

(Lost more than a few brain cells reading the last few pages of this thread... Yikes.)

For those of you who follow the Caps (I don't), what's the difference in Ovechkin's play since the All Star break that he's suddenly producing again (for now, anyway)?

Is he (a) not noticeably doing anything different, except scoring more, which perhaps suggests his body needed a rest?; or (b) is he doing something noticeably different?

Looks healthier. Much more mobile. It looked like he had a back issue earlier in the season or maybe a leg injury, he really had trouble with his mobility and he was hesitant to shoot.

I think the team has settled in too. Backstrom and Kuznetsov were both net negatives on the ice and distractions off the ice. They seem to have gelled a bit as a team and don’t look as reactionary.

 

[wetcoast]

No it's because in quite literally every thread involving Ovechkin you come into to demean his accomplishments. Been doing it for years. Weird.

If Hathaway puts that EN in, they're up 3-1 and now in a position where 90.5% of teams advance. Now I suppose you could point out that the Capitals franchise is actually horrible when up 3-1 but in the post-finally winning a cup, pressure is off era I would have bet on them to advance.

Florida got a massive jolt of energy coming back to rip that game away from Washington, it completely changed the entire series.

I was responding to a really weak assertion, if I just wanted to throw out a cheap shot I could have mentioned how aside from Oshie the Capitals too 6 simply didn't score goals that series.

Like I said Ovi is going to break the record and already is the best goal scorer if all time but people need to stop being so sensitive about reality.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I was responding to a really weak assertion, if I just wanted to throw out a cheap shot

Yeah well cheap shots are pretty much all you've got as it pertains to Ovechkin.

Here in the honest world Ovechkin was a PPG player in that series.

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah well cheap shots are pretty much all you've got as it pertains to Ovechkin.

Here in the honest world Ovechkin was a PPG player in that series.

Sure he was 50 goal scorer in regular season and a 1-5-6 (-3) line in the playoffs.

The Capitals didn't lose because of that Hathaway's ENG miss, they collectively underperformed except for Oshie.

It was a bad take so why double down?

 

[zappa4ever]

///

It was a bad take so why double down?

up 3-1 in a series vs. 2-2 as the higher seed (gm5 at home) is a bad take?
ummmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... yeah.

 

[vippe]

You know Ovechkin is doing well currently when his detractors are in full force.

It's always fun, mostly pathetic - but still fun.

 

[M2Beezy]

Careful, next time you'll say that the Caps benefit from Ovechkin playing long PP shifts or some other outrageous idea

Canucks play Quinn Hughes for the full two minutes quite often on the powerplay... Not because they want to win NO... Its cause in 2 decades he will be chasing down Ray Bourques defenseman assist record!

**you heard it here first**

 

[wetcoast]

up 3-1 in a series vs. 2-2 as the higher seed (gm5 at home) is a bad take?
ummmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... yeah.

No it's a bad take that they lost the series because of a guy who plays basically defensive zone starts and 13:25 MPG that series.

This isn't rocket science here.

 

[SkinsFan09]

I was responding to a really weak assertion, if I just wanted to throw out a cheap shot I could have mentioned how aside from Oshie the Capitals too 6 simply didn't score goals that series.

Like I said Ovi is going to break the record and already is the best goal scorer if all time but people need to stop being so sensitive about reality.

You're right, and losing Tom Wilson to a torn ACL was devastating blow.

The people being sensitive and out of touch are the Gretzky-lovers trying to make up narratives like "he didn't add to his stats in blowouts" even though he did precisely that, or "his teammates didn't rally to help him achieve milestones". Things just so far out of reality.

No it's a bad take that they lost the series because of a guy who plays basically defensive zone starts and 13:25 MPG that series.

This isn't rocket science here.

He didn't lose the series for Washington. But he did miss a play that would have drastically increased their odds of advancing.

 

[wetcoast]

You're right, and losing Tom Wilson to a torn ACL was devastating blow.

The people being sensitive and out of touch are the Gretzky-lovers trying to make up narratives like "he didn't add to his stats in blowouts" even though he did precisely that, or "his teammates didn't rally to help him achieve milestones". Things just so far out of reality.

Most people aren't lovers of one player or haters of another and the reality is that context should be used for all players, both Gretzky and Ovechkin so at least be consistent.

He didn't lose the series for Washington. But he did miss a play that would have drastically increased their odds of advancing.

Sure but that's different what you originally quoted here, so if the above is a clarification we can move on.

An empty net goal ends the game and he can put it in from anywhere on the ice. What's the issue? If Garnett Hathaway had scored a relatively easy empty net goal in the 2022 playoffs the Capitals would have advanced past Florida.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Most people aren't overs of one player or haters of another and the reality is that context should be used for all players, both Gretzky and Ovechkin so at least be consistent.


Sure but that's different what you originally quoted here, so if the above is a clarification we can move on.

My original message did not say "he lost the series" it says "if he'd scored that empty net they would have advanced."

Yes, I used hyperbole to make a point about EN goals not being useless.

 

[shtorm2005]

It’s almost 36 hours later and I still can’t get over the disrespect for Ovechkin to score a powerplay goal with his team already up three in the last minute.

Weren't it Devils that time in last game of season who refused an empty net situation just to deny Ovy gets 50? That was some high level of disrespect. So, there is absolutely no problem if Ovy returns the favor.

 

[YippieKaey]

Ovechkin would have needed an enforcer in the 80's. Don't kid yourself. He would never be able to play the way he does now without them. The power forwards back then had to fight 10-20 times a year. Guys like Dave Brown would have whopped the everlasting s**t out of him if he threw blindsides, and the Bryan Marchments and Ulf Samuelssons would have done their best to take his knees out if he scored too much.

Gretzky survived due to smartness. Not enforcers. But he definately needed them, just like any other star back then.

Go to Youtube and watch Ovi one-punch Svechnikov (not exactly tiny himself). Then google his goal against Tampa where he casually flattens 6'5 240 lbs Braydon Coburn on his way to the net. Then see him spear Trent Frederics crotch as the kid was getting lippy.

He is not as nasty as Gordie Howe (cant be these days) but Ovi very much takes care of the rough stuff. During his peak he was probably the strongest player in the league (after Chara). He is also notoriously impervious to injury even though he is one of the most physical players of the last 18 years. AND he is a very smart player who has managed to score 20-25 goals per year from the exact same spot for 10+ years with no coach or player able to stop it.

You have no idea what you're talking about and you're digging yourself into a pretty deep pit.

 

[YippieKaey]

(Lost more than a few brain cells reading the last few pages of this thread... Yikes.)

For those of you who follow the Caps (I don't), what's the difference in Ovechkin's play since the All Star break that he's suddenly producing again (for now, anyway)?

Is he (a) not noticeably doing anything different, except scoring more, which perhaps suggests his body needed a rest?; or (b) is he doing something noticeably different?

Most likely he had a back injury disturbing him that's healed now.

He looks more mobile and explosive now. And usually takes him a good chunk of games to learn how to produce in a new (especially as defensive as this year) system.

 

[wetcoast]

My original message did not say "he lost the series" it says "if he'd scored that empty net they would have advanced."

That's kind of a distinction without a difference.

Yes, I used hyperbole to make a point about EN goals not being useless.

No goals aren't useless but it's pretty obvious that Ovi is out there chasing the record his usage in EN situations has gone up dramatically the last couple of years.

Before everyone gets all sensitive go look up the stats.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Beukeboom]

Go to Youtube and watch Ovi one-punch Svechnikov (not exactly tiny himself). Then google his goal against Tampa where he casually flattens 6'5 240 lbs Braydon Coburn on his way to the net. Then see him spear Trent Frederics crotch as the kid was getting lippy.

He is not as nasty as Gordie Howe (cant be these days) but Ovi very much takes care of the rough stuff. During his peak he was probably the strongest player in the league (after Chara). He is also notoriously impervious to injury even though he is one of the most physical players of the last 18 years. AND he is a very smart player who has managed to score 20-25 goals per year from the exact same spot for 10+ years with no coach or player able to stop it.

You have no idea what you're talking about and you're digging yourself into a pretty deep pit.

That's an insane last statement considering you're using Svechnikov and Coburn as examples. We're talking about the 80's an 90's, so Gaetz, Probert, Twist and Brown. Svechnikov has dropped his gloves once in his lifetime. Gaetz went straight from the NHL to some sort of North American jail tour. There were pure mental cases in the league back then, not Instagram fashionistas.

Also, Ovechkin has dropped his gloves four times in his whole career. He'd have to drop 'em 15-20 times a season back them if he played the way he does now.

Btw in those four fights he lost three: to Mike Richards, Brandon Dubinsky and Paul Gustad. Not exactly McSorley and Probert that Wendel Clarke had to fight. And Svechnikov...jeez, did you perhaps start watching NHL around 2010?

 

[BallardEra]

I don't think this Beukeboom dude is an Ovie hater. I see him as more of an old school "throwback" kind of hockey fan.

That's the beauty of life and this board. We can agree, disagree, or agree to disagree.

 

[YippieKaey]

That's an insane last statement considering you're using Svechnikov and Coburn as examples. We're talking about the 80's an 90's, so Gaetz, Probert, Twist and Brown. Svechnikov has dropped his gloves once in his lifetime. Gaetz went straight from the NHL to some sort of North American jail tour. There were pure mental cases in the league back then, not Instagram fashionistas.

Also, Ovechkin has dropped his gloves four times in his whole career. He'd have to drop 'em 15-20 times a season back them if he played the way he does now.

Btw in those four fights he lost three: to Mike Richards, Brandon Dubinsky and Paul Gustad. Not exactly McSorley and Probert that Wendel Clarke had to fight. And Svechnikov...jeez, did you perhaps start watching NHL around 2010?

Your comparison is flawed though. If Twist or Gaetz played today they would not be in the NHL. Likewise, if Ovi played back then he would have been a lot nastier. Comparing eras and pretending players would be the same in different eras doesn't work.

In THIS era, we have factual evidence that Ovi was third in the league in hits, scoring 50 goals per year and making defenders such as Dougie Hamilton not go into the corners for fear of being hit. He played like this for almost 15 years before easing up a bit on the physicality. And there has been plenty of enforcers in the league in his time.

 

[PlushMinus]

That's an insane last statement considering you're using Svechnikov and Coburn as examples. We're talking about the 80's an 90's, so Gaetz, Probert, Twist and Brown. Svechnikov has dropped his gloves once in his lifetime. Gaetz went straight from the NHL to some sort of North American jail tour. There were pure mental cases in the league back then, not Instagram fashionistas.

Also, Ovechkin has dropped his gloves four times in his whole career. He'd have to drop 'em 15-20 times a season back them if he played the way he does now.

Btw in those four fights he lost three: to Mike Richards, Brandon Dubinsky and Paul Gustad. Not exactly McSorley and Probert that Wendel Clarke had to fight. And Svechnikov...jeez, did you perhaps start watching NHL around 2010?

Yawn - move on. He's playing now, not then. What a stupid speculative load of crap.

 

[HTFN]

Your comparison is flawed though. If Twist or Gaetz played today they would not be in the NHL. Likewise, if Ovi played back then he would have been a lot nastier. Comparing eras and pretending players would be the same in different eras doesn't work.

In THIS era, we have factual evidence that Ovi was third in the league in hits, scoring 50 goals per year and making defenders such as Dougie Hamilton not go into the corners for fear of being hit. He played like this for almost 15 years before easing up a bit on the physicality. And there has been plenty of enforcers in the league in his time.

Seems like as good a time as any to remember that he used to go at guys like Chara and Douglas Murray, two all-world and all-time universally strong hockey players, like an anime character finally getting to hit somebody without holding back.

He wouldn't have "needed to" fight 15+ times per season, that's a mark Cam Neely hit just one time and probably had his own proactive part in beyond just being f***ed with, and Eric Lindros never even sniffed 66% of with his own shenanigans a while later.

I tried combing for a comparable 6'3", 230+ superstar scoring player in a few 80's seasons and the fact is that even the big boys don't fight anywhere near that amount if they're also scorers unless they're that dude, and Ovechkin's not taking himself off the ice like that. Doesn't mean he can't take care of himself.

This idea that a guy who came into the league way before it looked like it did today and had visible man-strength against guys who cut their teeth in the 90's has a lot to worry about is kind of goofy already. Introducing the concept like he somehow has more to worry about than any of his peers taking that same time machine is... dumb?

edit: reading that back, I wasn't saying Murray was an all-world player, but he was easily one of the strongest hockey players in the league at the time and seems like he'd stack up favorably all-time as well.

 

[Beukeboom]

Your comparison is flawed though. If Twist or Gaetz played today they would not be in the NHL. Likewise, if Ovi played back then he would have been a lot nastier. Comparing eras and pretending players would be the same in different eras doesn't work.

In THIS era, we have factual evidence that Ovi was third in the league in hits, scoring 50 goals per year and making defenders such as Dougie Hamilton not go into the corners for fear of being hit. He played like this for almost 15 years before easing up a bit on the physicality. And there has been plenty of enforcers in the league in his time.

Well i originally responded to a comment saying Ovie wouldn't need enforcers. I merely pointed out that he had Brashear and Erskine during the rougher years of his career, before the NHL got soft, AND that he definately would have needed them in the 80's and 90's even if he managed to win one fight once vs Svechnikov aka "the beast".

I've always liked Ovies wreckingball style. But that style came with a higher cost back then. Few of the power forwards were injury free back then, and it might have been a different story. Anyway, who knows...