Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Dingo]

There were 110 individual 50 goal seasons during Gretzky's first 15 seasons.

There were 22 individual 50 goals seasons during Ovechkin's first 15 seasons.

Clearly it's easier to score goals during Ovie's era.

take Gretz and Ovie out of that and it looks even more ridiculous - 101-14 i believe

Also, for anyone wondering if Gretzky was a surgeon in comparison to what it takes to score a lot, now..... (this doesnt include anything to do with terrible defensive coverage and big mooks who couldnt skate on defense, incredibly weak AHL level teams playing against historically stacked squads, and such.)

 

[Fitzy]

There were 110 individual 50 goal seasons during Gretzky's first 15 seasons.

There were 22 individual 50 goals seasons during Ovechkin's first 15 seasons.

Clearly it's easier to score goals during Ovie's era.

And as an even simpler metric, Goals per game per team varied between 3.5-4 most go Wayne's prime, only 2.7-3 for most of Ovechkins.

Pretty much the only case you can make differently is that power plays are more lethal now than in the 80s and so perhaps he's gotten a boost to PP goals, but no where near enough to offset.

 

[Midnight Judges]

And as an even simpler metric, Goals per game per team varied between 3.5-4 most go Wayne's prime, only 2.7-3 for most of Ovechkins.

Pretty much the only case you can make differently is that power plays are more lethal now than in the 80s and so perhaps he's gotten a boost to PP goals, but no where near enough to offset.

Agree.

Additionally, Ovechkin was the centerpiece of the best powerplay in the NHL over a 10+ year span.

It's not a coincidence.

 

[Beukeboom]

I know he's got a games played advantage but there's something that tickles me about Ovechkin "the one trick pony" approaching Fedorov's career assists number. The guy that got a ton of respect for being able to do it all, had people gushing over how perfect and fluid he was at his best, and if anything was more of a passer/playmaker than anything else will very probably be passed up by a guy that people have been trying to frame as a PP specialist for like a decade.

Now I'm not saying he's as good as a passer in a vacuum but it does introduce an interesting wrinkle to the "he's a PP turret" argument.

Isn't a majority of his assist tap ins and rebounds?

The thing that irks me about Ovie was prevalent tonight again. 5-2, a power play with 30 seconds left of the game, and he's out there chasing goals. I don't know. I just don't like it. Maybe because I'm a fan of #99.

I get it if you're at 97 points with two games left of the season. But the record he seeks will require several seasons. Is the whole team going to be busy helping him for years?

Is it just me?

 

[BallardEra]

Isn't a majority of his assist tap ins and rebounds?

The thing that irks me about Ovie was prevalent tonight again. 5-2, a power play with 30 seconds left of the game, and he's out there chasing goals. I don't know. I just don't like it. Maybe because I'm a fan of #99.

I get it if you're at 97 points with two games left. But the record he seeks will require several seasons. Is the whole team going to be busy helping him for years?

Is it just me?

I think it's just you (or Ovie haters) that think that way.

Like if Sid was chasing an assist record or not, I honestly wouldn't care if he was on the ice under such a scenario.

I'm also sure Wayne kept padding stats during blowouts as well.

A lot of people will still discredit Ovechkin if he ever breaks 894.

They'll find something.

 

[Beukeboom]

I think it's just you (or Ovie haters) that think that way.

Like if Sid was chasing an assist record or not, I honestly wouldn't care if he was on the ice under such a scenario.

I'm also sure Wayne kept padding stats during blowouts as well.

A lot of people will still discredit Ovechkin if he ever breaks 894.

They'll find something.

Oh I wouldn't discredit his goals. A goal is a goal. I just doubt he cares about the team. He feels like a Bure but with the wits to be quiet.

I wouldn't call myself a hater either. I used to watch the Capitals just to see him score. But that was in his younger days. I was a big fan of Ovie 1.0. The fast skating and deking one that is...

 

[BallardEra]

Oh I wouldn't discredit his goals. A goal is a goal. I just doubt he cares about the team. He feels like a Bure but with the wits to be quiet.

I wouldn't call myself a hater either. I used to watch the Capitals just to see him score. But that was in his younger days. I was a big fan of Ovie 1.0. The fast skating and deking one that is...

Oh ya, not saying you're a hater. I just know that the haters will always try and discredit him.

He does care about the team and countless teammates and coaches have echoed that. Even this season when he wasn't scoring he was looking to set up his teammates.

 

[gtrower]

And as an even simpler metric, Goals per game per team varied between 3.5-4 most go Wayne's prime, only 2.7-3 for most of Ovechkins.

Pretty much the only case you can make differently is that power plays are more lethal now than in the 80s and so perhaps he's gotten a boost to PP goals, but no where near enough to offset.

Frequency / effectiveness of PPs are also already baked into those league-wide scoring stats. If the assertion is that it’s easier to get PP goals now then that would just mean it was that much easier to get ES goals back then to make up the difference. Same with training, nutrition, stick technology, goalie pads, goaltending styles, etc.

 

[filinski77]

Isn't a majority of his assist tap ins and rebounds?

The thing that irks me about Ovie was prevalent tonight again. 5-2, a power play with 30 seconds left of the game, and he's out there chasing goals. I don't know. I just don't like it. Maybe because I'm a fan of #99.

I get it if you're at 97 points with two games left of the season. But the record he seeks will require several seasons. Is the whole team going to be busy helping him for years?

Is it just me?

Pretty sure Ovechkin is already the all-time leader in goals to tie the game, and 1st goal of the game. And he has more game winners than Gretzky.

If anything, Gretzky's goal numbers were baked in with unneeded goals.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Isn't a majority of his assist tap ins and rebounds?

The thing that irks me about Ovie was prevalent tonight again. 5-2, a power play with 30 seconds left of the game, and he's out there chasing goals. I don't know. I just don't like it. Maybe because I'm a fan of #99.

I get it if you're at 97 points with two games left of the season. But the record he seeks will require several seasons. Is the whole team going to be busy helping him for years?

Is it just me?

The Ovechkin's assists are rebounds narrative is one of the laziest in hockey.












Also, there's no way you're going to tell me Gretzky played his entire career and was never out in a game chasing goals or scoring when the game was already out of reach, especially in the 1980s.

What you think every Art Ross winner only got points when it was 2-1? The lengths people will go to. Like Gretzky's teammates didn't want to help him when he was chasing Gordie Howe and others.

 

[Mulletman]

When he is injured - he needs to take time off. These "little things" don't get better at his age if he plays through them.

"Take time off for little injuries" That's what guys like Crosby and Forsberg do. Guys like Ovechkin and McDavid go out there and play the games even if they're banged up a bit.

 

[Grifter3511]

The Ovechkin's assists are rebounds narrative is one of the laziest in hockey.












Also, there's no way you're going to tell me Gretzky played his entire career and was never out in a game chasing goals or scoring when the game was already out of reach, especially in the 1980s.

What you think every Art Ross winner only got points when it was 2-1? The lengths people will go to. Like Gretzky's teammates didn't want to help him when he was chasing Gordie Howe and others.

I'm not disagreeing with your assertion. I've never watched nearly enough Ovechkin to do so.

But the guy has almost 700 assists in his career. Showing a handful of good passes doesn't mean the detractors aren't correct.

"Take time off for little injuries" That's what guys like Crosby and Forsberg do. Guys like Ovechkin and McDavid go out there and play the games even if they're banged up a bit.

You mean the guys with multiple cups? Maybe they're on to something.

 

[8To34]

Isn't a majority of his assist tap ins and rebounds?

The thing that irks me about Ovie was prevalent tonight again. 5-2, a power play with 30 seconds left of the game, and he's out there chasing goals. I don't know. I just don't like it. Maybe because I'm a fan of #99.

I get it if you're at 97 points with two games left of the season. But the record he seeks will require several seasons. Is the whole team going to be busy helping him for years?

Is it just me?

Is there some rule that goals scored at the end of the game don't count towards victory that I missed or something?

And how do you reconcile your fandom of 99 with him being the all time leader in ENGs until recently? Those no good very bad chasing end of game goals.

 

[SkinsFan09]

I'm not disagreeing with your assertion. I've never watched nearly enough Ovechkin to do so.

But the guy has almost 700 assists in his career. Showing a handful of good passes doesn't mean the detractors aren't correct.

You're proving the point. 700 assists off rebounds would be literally the luckiest career in NHL history.

Ovechkin is No. 2 all-time in game-winning goals, 35 more than Gretzky and a higher percentage of his total goals. Considering he played in a way lower scoring era with more parity and not on a team of Hall of Famers, I'd be willing to bet Wayne scored WAY more goals when games were out of reach.

 

[Video Nasty]

You mean the guys with multiple cups? Maybe they're on to something.

If by on to something you mean being a part of a competently run organization that can withstand them missing so much time to begin with, sure. Particularly when it comes to Forsberg.

Let’s not forget that Forsberg missed the entire Western Conference Finals and Stanley Cup Finals series during his second Cup win. The Avs were also a strong enough to sustain him missing the entire 2001-2002 regular season, in which they were second in the West in points and second across the entire league in wins.

 

[andrjusha]

After drought of zero goals in 8 games, number 8 scores 8 goals in last 8 games.
If number 8 scores 8 more goals this season and three times 8 goals in following seasons, he will catch gr8 one: 8+3*8+3*8=56

ps: just needed to match number of my posts to number of OV goals: 8-3-8

 

[Grifter3511]

If by on to something you mean being a part of a competently run organization that can withstand them missing so much time to begin with, sure. Particularly when it comes to Forsberg.

Let’s not forget that Forsberg missed the entire Western Conference Finals and Stanley Cup Finals series during his second Cup win. The Avs were also a strong enough to sustain him missing the entire 2001-2002 regular season, in which they were second in the West in points and second across the entire league in wins.

Maybe that's the secret. Well, not in Ovi's case. He's won his Cup and caps aren't challenging for it any time soon. But maybe McD should look into taking some more extended breaks and allow his team to try and figure out how to win without him. If the Oilers can't make the playoffs without him (which they probably cant). Then they're not good enough to win the Cup with him (which they probably aren't).

Anyways, pretty much everything I've added to this thread has been tongue in cheek. I am a firm proponent that 'winners find ways to win' is bullshit in a sport such as hockey. Winners win because they have the support, the depth, the health and the luck.

 

[kugelbahn]

Isn't a majority of his assist tap ins and rebounds?

The thing that irks me about Ovie was prevalent tonight again. 5-2, a power play with 30 seconds left of the game, and he's out there chasing goals. I don't know. I just don't like it. Maybe because I'm a fan of #99.

I get it if you're at 97 points with two games left of the season. But the record he seeks will require several seasons. Is the whole team going to be busy helping him for years?

Is it just me?

At least OV does not get assists from faceoffs wins.
Isn't a majority of #99 assists come from his 600/season faceoff wins?

 

[Susannah]

One of the laziest arguments in hockey is one player wins Stanley Cup.

 

[Toby91ca]

Is there some rule that goals scored at the end of the game don't count towards victory that I missed or something?

And how do you reconcile your fandom of 99 with him being the all time leader in ENGs until recently? Those no good very bad chasing end of game goals.

Totally agree, you try to score as much as you can no matter what. It's almost poor sportsmanship to not try just because you are up by a lot. It's happens a bit in minor hockey because sometimes you do end up in situations where you are playing a team that really shouldn't be playing (different caliber) so coach suggests you can't shoot towards the net unless you've passed it 3-4 times or something like that.

I can say for sure though, there are some coaches in the league that will put out their PP2 line if it's in the 3rd period and the team is already up big to start the PP and there are coaches that get pissed when you start the PP1 in that situation too and sometimes you rest star players in that situation to avoid injury, etc.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

One of the laziest arguments in sports is one player wins a Championship

Fixed. and yet people still largely consider Russell to be better than Chamberlain and other similar comparisons where one player is clearly better in terms of individual accomplishments but the player lucky enough to be on an elite team gets the respect over him.

 

[Beukeboom]

Oh ya, not saying you're a hater. I just know that the haters will always try and discredit him.

He does care about the team and countless teammates and coaches have echoed that. Even this season when he wasn't scoring he was looking to set up his teammates.

I might be wrong about that for sure. It's just the impression I've gotten.

Is there some rule that goals scored at the end of the game don't count towards victory that I missed or something?

And how do you reconcile your fandom of 99 with him being the all time leader in ENGs until recently? Those no good very bad chasing end of game goals.

The idea is to let some young players, or forthliners get some love on the PP if you're up 5-2 with less than 60 secs to go. That's the gentlemen's way of doing it unless you're at 99 points or 49 goals in game 82. Just my old fashioned opinion. This is also combined with the fact that Ovie circles in the center ice area instead of playing defense when his team is up by a mere goal or so and the other team has pulled their goalie. Hence chasing #99 is more important than anything else, and will be for three more years or so...

 

[McVechkin]

why would anyone discredit an assist that comes from a rebound? you need to put pucks in the net. If he has such a good shot that he can get it off in all kinds of situations where he can either score or create a good rebound opportunity, any coach in their right minds would tweak their system to have him shoot from anywhere as his shot is so good it creates the best scoring opportunities with teammates crashing the net. it seems silly to waste or discredit that unique talent.

 

[Demandedace]

I might be wrong about that for sure. It's just the impression I've gotten.

The idea is to let some young players, or forthliners get some love on the PP if you're up 5-2 with less than 60 secs to go. That's the gentlemen's way of doing it unless you're at 99 points or 49 goals in game 82. Just my old fashioned opinion. This is also combined with the fact that Ovie circles in the center ice area instead of playing defense when his team is up by a mere goal or so and the other team has pulled their goalie. Hence chasing #99 is more important than anything else, and will be for three more years or so...

Imagine saying Ovi doesn’t care about the team lol. Clearly someone who never has watched a single Caps game

 

[HTFN]

I might be wrong about that for sure. It's just the impression I've gotten.

The idea is to let some young players, or forthliners get some love on the PP if you're up 5-2 with less than 60 secs to go. That's the gentlemen's way of doing it unless you're at 99 points or 49 goals in game 82. Just my old fashioned opinion. This is also combined with the fact that Ovie circles in the center ice area instead of playing defense when his team is up by a mere goal or so and the other team has pulled their goalie. Hence chasing #99 is more important than anything else, and will be for three more years or so...

No might, just are. Felt like Trotz took it personally and really tried to get rid of this, if you respect what Barry Trotz is as a human and hockey personality you should take his word for it.