Not sure I was talking about anybody in particular. I did say textually that everytime we try to talk about what a bad pick JK was, there are people who say that it wasn't that bad of a pick, it was just bad development. While for Zadina, I never read that. On the contrary, when people talk about Tkachuk, the response is...hey...you never wanted Tkachuk, you wanted Zadina instead....as if point blank, Zadina was a bad pick. There are never comments about how bad Zadina could have been develop. That's my sole point.
I don't think it was a bad pick anymore than I think Zadina was a bad pick... Or Dahling for that matter, even though Quinn Hughes is quite clearly the best dman & player from the draft.
I think the conclusion you're drawing from the comments you describe is a bit thin.
Not sure how you read that I said Zadina got not shot.....Just saying that getting a shot is not a way to determine anything as far as development. 'Cause getting a shot too early might have the same consequence as never getting a shot. I don't think getting a shot is an issue. It's how you get that shot. The timing. The pairing etc. Both kids got their shot. JK ended up making himself useful in other areas. Zadina was a top 6 or nothing. He is nothing.
No player is "x" or nothing... Some players drafted to be scorers reinvent themselves as depth or defensive contributors, some don't.
Not going to disagree here.
Let's pop some champagne... Not even kidding, we rarely agree in much so
Not sure why you talk about THE CURRENT REGIME. Zadina is not part of this current regime. If by regime we talk about GM, though head scouts, scouts and development teams change within a regime, well Zadina is Holland. Zadina is paired with everyboyd I named in the other thread. Not with Cossa, Seider and Cie. Holland's draft and development was abysmal after 2002. So that's 17 years of bad drafting and development. That Wings team has to be the most overrated scouting/development team of all time. They surfed on great European finds. More open to Europe than other teams. But when the playing field was leveled. they were abysmal. They really only hit with Larkin. And then you have to go back to Nyquist. But under Holland, clearly development couldn't be ideal.
Yes, my bad, Zadina was a Holland pick. Before the next draft, Yzerman was in charge, so the bulk of his development took place under Yzerman's approach. Note that Zadina's best season as a pro in North America was that year...
I never said one person said this phrase. I'm saying people say JK might be a development issue. But when there are snarky remarks about posters here that would have taken Zadina, I see nobody talking about Zadina's possible bad development. So in resume, and IN GENERAL, and I did not say THE SAME PEOPLE WHO.....just saying that cases of JK bad development are out there....while Zadina was seemingly always....a bad pick.
seems like a stretch
First....pretty sure nobody can say right now who is the better pick. Second, Wright and Slaf....has nothing to do with 20 to 5 here...Actually my point about this is less the rankings than the reasons behind the rankings. It does happen from time to time that you just huge jumps up and down from mid rankings to final rankings. But often, it has to do with a different 2nd part of the season or playoffs. Just saying that the U-18 is not a good indicator for such a jump, in my opinion. Or that was the jump there for people to say I was right KNOWING Habs were aiming at C? Or because they really thought he was the 5th best prospect?
I can. Slaf is obviously the better pick at this point. Not even remotely close at this time.
And again, no two rankings are exactly the same. I don't see the value in putting as much weight in publicized rankings as you do. It's more media and fan entertainment than anything else.
True. But as fans, we have to go with what we know. Name of our game. Thing is...as much as we love to diss public listing from agencies....they are never that far off. And when they are, it's because public agencies don't have needs. While teams do pick by needs sometimes. So it's normal to see discrepancies too. But as much as lists could differ, not sure what your point is...McKenzie had JK going for us...and he did. Also McKenzie is more a reflection of reality based on how he compiles the votes.
Rankings aren't all the same...
They are often off, some more than others, especially as you go beyond the top 10. And more importantly they are no better than the actual draft in getting the order of impact NHLers right outside the first few picks (unless Habs are picking 3rd, in that case were always wrong it would seem lol)
Fans too are not all coming at it from the same lens...
In summary
JKO & Zadina both have failed to live up to their rankings, draft spot & potential this far. JKO is an effective NHLer, Zadina is gone, maybe for good.
Why they fell short is up for debate. Both did get a lot of NHL opportunity, but who got a better or worse opportunity is debatable.
MB regime fumbled their development approach
