hblueridgegal
We'll bounce back
This morning Jeff Marek said he's embracing the villain role and serves as the Ric Flair of hockey.
Out of Town Stanley Cup Edition
- Thread starter Bunch of Jurcos
- Start date
Not a bad comparable. WWE actors fake injuries, cheat the system, and shirk professionalism to do whatever it takes to win. Tampa is the WWE of the NHL.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
- 49,326
- 102,057
If Carolina somehow had something similar (rest of the NHL calling us out on something), this team would lean into the wind and embrace it. Bunch of Jerks, Storm Surge, Whalers night, etc...
We'd have embraced this as well.
We'd have embraced this as well.
Dude is the ultimate troll and I think I'm kind of loving it
I'm also a little torn like AndreiThreeK. The Canes fanbase are indeed a bunch of jerks. But most of this is just cultural shenanigans, and flexing when people shit on our fanbase for asinine bullshit reasons. Big whoop if Don Cherry doesn't like us, or if our Canes Twitter is blocked by Nashville. I like this sort of playfulness. The Dallas Stars' jumbotron person does this too and it's hilarious.
The Tampa chicanery is a little different in that it's bragging about exploiting the league rules, and that doesn't sit as well with me. It definitely feels wrong to me that Tampa will probably get no punishment at all, but New Jersey did get punished for a cap-related offense (that was also within the rules, but arguably more so). Like, it's kind of begging the league to do something - either another retroactive punishment for Tampa or a way to close this loophole moving forwards.
The drunken Kuch interview was fine, but I don't love the example it sets for young kids who do pay attention to that kind of stuff. But damn - why are you interviewing the players the NIGHT THEY WIN THE CUP? Like, give them a day off or something, or interview them on the ice. Can you imagine if they had interviewed Boston after they won the cup, after seeing that bar tab?
(For the uninitiated)
The Tampa chicanery is a little different in that it's bragging about exploiting the league rules, and that doesn't sit as well with me. It definitely feels wrong to me that Tampa will probably get no punishment at all, but New Jersey did get punished for a cap-related offense (that was also within the rules, but arguably more so). Like, it's kind of begging the league to do something - either another retroactive punishment for Tampa or a way to close this loophole moving forwards.
The drunken Kuch interview was fine, but I don't love the example it sets for young kids who do pay attention to that kind of stuff. But damn - why are you interviewing the players the NIGHT THEY WIN THE CUP? Like, give them a day off or something, or interview them on the ice. Can you imagine if they had interviewed Boston after they won the cup, after seeing that bar tab?
(For the uninitiated)
LakeLivin
Armchair Quarterback
I'm also a little torn like AndreiThreeK. The Canes fanbase are indeed a bunch of jerks. But most of this is just cultural shenanigans, and flexing when people shit on our fanbase for asinine bullshit reasons. Big whoop if Don Cherry doesn't like us, or if our Canes Twitter is blocked by Nashville. I like this sort of playfulness. The Dallas Stars' jumbotron person does this too and it's hilarious.
The Tampa chicanery is a little different in that it's bragging about exploiting the league rules, and that doesn't sit as well with me. It definitely feels wrong to me that Tampa will probably get no punishment at all, but New Jersey did get punished for a cap-related offense (that was also within the rules, but arguably more so). Like, it's kind of begging the league to do something - either another retroactive punishment for Tampa or a way to close this loophole moving forwards.
The drunken Kuch interview was fine, but I don't love the example it sets for young kids who do pay attention to that kind of stuff. But damn - why are you interviewing the players the NIGHT THEY WIN THE CUP? Like, give them a day off or something, or interview them on the ice. Can you imagine if they had interviewed Boston after they won the cup, after seeing that bar tab?
(For the uninitiated)
Looking at that bar tab I've gotta wonder: who was drinking the Coors Light?
Lempo
Recovering Future Considerations Truther
- Feb 23, 2014
- 27,714
- 86,656
That one bottle of complementary champagne was a business savvy move by the proprietor.
Surrounded By Ahos
Las Vegas Desert Ducks Official Team Poster
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
- Jul 31, 2017
- 23,708
- 55,334
seeing the bar tab makes me wish I had opened a bar in a good area a long time ago. The amounts people will spend on alcohol, not at their house, is pretty ridiculous.
The Faulker 27
Registered User
If I had invested the money I spent at bars in my 20s and early 30s I'd be much farther along in my retirement plan right now. But hell. I had some legendary nights back then.
WreckingCrew
Registered User
- Feb 4, 2015
- 13,483
- 41,174
I used to have some "friends" (more like old friends / acquaintances) who were CONSTANTLY complaining about how expensive everything is, living paycheck to paycheck, couldn't afford rent in the downtown area (no **** sherlock)...and yet they were going out drinking all the time as a coping mechanism it seems. If they spent half as much on booze they'd probably be living a pretty good life instead of being caught in a self-inflicted rut. It's part of the reason I'm kind of glad I don't really like beer and alcohol in general tastes like rubbing alcohol so I only drink on occasion, I save so much $$
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Humbug.
Tampa took their shot with the best team we've seen in a long time, and all anyone can do is cry about the cap.
If everyone weren't whining about it, it would be a non-story. But everyone is whining about it, so what are you gonna do? Cry and say "gee you're right, what we did was completely within the rules yet somehow morally reprehensible so I'm gonna give the trophy back"?
f*** that. You're the villain anyway, even though you followed the rules to the letter.
So troll the shit out of people.
I'd love to see the Canes break through, of course, but if they don't, I want to see Tampa win ten more cups, and if they have to bamboozle the NHL rules committee to do it, so much the better.
Also: half the GMs in the league, if they had $18m extra, would turn it into four Eric Staals.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
- 49,326
- 102,057
My wife and I don't go out to eat all that often as we like to cook, but it's amazing how much cheaper a night out became when we stopped ordering alcohol when eating out. Also, many places have huge serving sizes so we'll many times just order an appetizer and 1 entree and split those. We have just as much fun going out to dinner as we did before, but at a fraction of the cost.
WreckingCrew
Registered User
- Feb 4, 2015
- 13,483
- 41,174
Honestly, that's a great way to go and do it. Likewise, being single, sometimes I'll get a larger portion (lower cost/serving) so I have leftovers for a 2nd meal, rather than getting the standard meal and eating like 2/3 - 3/4 of it (too much to finish, not enough to take home).
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Got to get something that reheats well, though. But yes, absolutely.
That reminds me: I've got an Arby's pecan chicken salad sandwich waiting for me in the fridge!
(Hey look, it's a food thread now.)
No connection at all between "the best team we have seen in a long time" and having Nikita Kucherov not count against your Cap. No siree.
I would like to see Tampa test the Cap again. I'd like to see them LTIR Hedman all of next year and bring him back for the Playoffs, just to see what happens. I would also like to see the Scott Mayfield's of the world repeatedly knocking them back into compliance. Gotta pay the troll toll if you are gonna troll.
And I have no problem with anyone loving the heel. Lots loved Ric Flair.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
This whole argument would be a lot more interesting if they hadn't already won the Cup last year by being "compliant".
Just be thankful that professional sports are the greatest bastion of socialism in America, and there aren't six teams that win every single year.
And that argument would be more interesting to me if Tampa had to do anything last offseason about being $10 million over the Cap except retain a healthy player on LTIR for much of the year.
Ignore my annoyance as I have to hear about Champa Bay weekly from family that I can't avoid.
dumb question time...
this is probably pretty common knowledge around here, but what is the actual penalty for going over the cap? is it only forfeiting draft picks?
this is probably pretty common knowledge around here, but what is the actual penalty for going over the cap? is it only forfeiting draft picks?
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Wikipedia says:
"Teams found to have violated the cap face fines of up to US$5 million, cancellation of contracts, loss of draft picks, loss of points and/or forfeiture of game(s) determined to have been affected by the violation of the cap."
NHL salary cap - Wikipedia
That's about as much research as I'm willing to do.
Also dumb question….is it true that a couple of the other final four teams were over the cap as well?
Yes, most teams "cheat" the cap, but in a pretty regular way.
Say at the trade deadline, the Canes have $2.0M in cap space. They want to trade for Taylor Hall, who say has a salary of $8.0M. No can do, right? Well, at the deadline, say there is only 1/4th of the season left. Hall's cap hit is effectively only $2M then.
So we trade for Hall. At the end of the regular season, we also call up 5 black aces, each of whom have a $0.750M cap hit. We will then be $9.75M over the cap if you count the whole team. Of course, that's a bit silly. Hall didn't play the whole year, and so we didn't have his full cap hit during the regular season. And the black aces probably won't play at all, and if they do, that means another player with a higher salary has sat for that game. This has been standard operating procedure for years in the cap system.
What's different about Tampa is that they had a guy on LTIR all year (Kucherov). This allowed their team to be JUST under the cap, whereas they would have been over with Kuch, so they would have had to trade Tyler Johnson for negative assets, and probably also Killorn. Kucherov missed every regular season game, and was very fortunate to be healthy exactly by game 1 of the playoffs, and he played every playoff game. Had Kuch played in the final regular season game, his team would have been over the camp, and would be penalized. It's really fortunate he was unhealthy on May 10, but healthy on May 16. Was this illegal? No. As long as Kuch really wasn't healthy to play on 5/10.
The big issue that probably needs to be tweaked is that there is no salary system for the playoffs, so the salary cap doesn't matter at all for the playoffs. Theoretically, the Canes, having been a great regular season team, could have LTIRed Staal, Gardiner, Reimer, and Niederreiter, all at the trade deadline, and then dealt all of our assets to acquire a superteam. As long as those players were wink wink nudge nudge unhealthy, we're good.
Say at the trade deadline, the Canes have $2.0M in cap space. They want to trade for Taylor Hall, who say has a salary of $8.0M. No can do, right? Well, at the deadline, say there is only 1/4th of the season left. Hall's cap hit is effectively only $2M then.
So we trade for Hall. At the end of the regular season, we also call up 5 black aces, each of whom have a $0.750M cap hit. We will then be $9.75M over the cap if you count the whole team. Of course, that's a bit silly. Hall didn't play the whole year, and so we didn't have his full cap hit during the regular season. And the black aces probably won't play at all, and if they do, that means another player with a higher salary has sat for that game. This has been standard operating procedure for years in the cap system.
What's different about Tampa is that they had a guy on LTIR all year (Kucherov). This allowed their team to be JUST under the cap, whereas they would have been over with Kuch, so they would have had to trade Tyler Johnson for negative assets, and probably also Killorn. Kucherov missed every regular season game, and was very fortunate to be healthy exactly by game 1 of the playoffs, and he played every playoff game. Had Kuch played in the final regular season game, his team would have been over the camp, and would be penalized. It's really fortunate he was unhealthy on May 10, but healthy on May 16. Was this illegal? No. As long as Kuch really wasn't healthy to play on 5/10.
The big issue that probably needs to be tweaked is that there is no salary system for the playoffs, so the salary cap doesn't matter at all for the playoffs. Theoretically, the Canes, having been a great regular season team, could have LTIRed Staal, Gardiner, Reimer, and Niederreiter, all at the trade deadline, and then dealt all of our assets to acquire a superteam. As long as those players were wink wink nudge nudge unhealthy, we're good.
Anton Dubinchuk
aho
I heard on a podcast that the Toronto Maple Leafs spent the same amount of real money on their roster as the Lightning this year.
With Tampa though, people have two things to be mad about, both being way over the cap, and Kucherov's questionable injury allowing them to do it. So when you point out that all sorts of teams are over the cap, they point out that Kucherov was "faking." When you point out that there was an investigation and they didn't discipline Tampa at all for him "faking", they say they didn't abide by the spirit of the rule. Then they hope that switching between the two enough to cause confusion is a suitable substitute for a logical argument.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I'm also a little torn like AndreiThreeK. The Canes fanbase are indeed a bunch of jerks. But most of this is just cultural shenanigans, and flexing when people shit on our fanbase for asinine bullshit reasons. Big whoop if Don Cherry doesn't like us, or if our Canes Twitter is blocked by Nashville. I like this sort of playfulness. The Dallas Stars' jumbotron person does this too and it's hilarious.
The Tampa chicanery is a little different in that it's bragging about exploiting the league rules, and that doesn't sit as well with me. It definitely feels wrong to me that Tampa will probably get no punishment at all, but New Jersey did get punished for a cap-related offense (that was also within the rules, but arguably more so). Like, it's kind of begging the league to do something - either another retroactive punishment for Tampa or a way to close this loophole moving forwards.
The drunken Kuch interview was fine, but I don't love the example it sets for young kids who do pay attention to that kind of stuff. But damn - why are you interviewing the players the NIGHT THEY WIN THE CUP? Like, give them a day off or something, or interview them on the ice. Can you imagine if they had interviewed Boston after they won the cup, after seeing that bar tab?
(For the uninitiated)
This is where I fall on it as well.
Whalers Night, Storm Surge, even the Bunch of Jerks moniker wasn't "trolling" anyone. Whalers Night was about selling tickets and merch, with a cultural nod to the franchise history. Storm Surge was about having fun and establishing a team identity relative to the fanbase. Bunch of Jerks was the age-old practice of appropriating an insult and rebranding it as a statement of pride.
The Kucherov situation was exploitation a loophole for competitive purposes. I'm not mad about it, but I also do think we need to be able to label it bullshit because it is bullshit. No different than the old back-diving contract nonsense that got shut down in equally bullshit fashion. It's a bad practice and not something anyone should be excited to see factor into a Stanley Cup title.
The postgame presser wasn't a "heel turn", it wasn't "trolling", it was just straight-up drunken stupidity. Who uses their post-championship press conference to talk trash about the opposing team's fans, let alone neg on award-winning players who weren't even in the series? At some level that's funny in a "look at this clown" kind of way, but there's nothing clever or substantial about it. It's just drunken belligerence.
And so out of that springs an entire franchise identity of WWE-style shit talking? And the fanbase is going to be bringing that to the table from now on? Nah, this is something I can very much live without. I want to like the Lightning as a once-a-generation powerhouse, but this is going to turn me off pretty quickly the same way it did with the Bruins post-2011.
Yeah I’m out on being any kind of bitter towards the Lightning. To say the injury was “faked” - yes, let’s give him a fake hip injury and a fake surgery, that’ll do the trick!
The timing of coming back *could* be scrutinized but hell, we’ve got NBA guys sitting out regular season games because playing a full schedule is too onerous on their bodies (LOL) so an NHL player giving himself a week, or two, extra recovery time is just fine with me.
