Our Second Line Conundrum.

[y2kcanucks]

Didn't AV basically develop Ryan Kesler and Alex Edler? He doesn't hate young players.

Edler was even held back longer than he probably should (we went out and signed Aaron Miller and kept Edler in the minors back when we badly needed an upgrade to our forward group. One of the many reasons Nonis was fired).

I give a lot of credit to Mats Sundin for Kesler's development. Yes AV made the decision to put Kesler on Sundin's wing, but I question how much of that was due to there being no one else who could play there.

 

[serge2k]

So here we are again, five years into the Mike Gillis era and we've still got garbage for a second line. Injuries have played a part in all this for sure, with Kesler and Booth both out now. What is it gonna take for Gillis to put a secondary scoring line together for this team? We've been without a RW for the second line for three years now! As it stands, looks like we'll be starting with Raymond-Ebbett-Kassian as our second line. Slow start is gonna kill this team.

We're right back to where we were when Brian Burke left here, a one line scoring team.

Missing a great center and a solid winger makes our second line weak?

Damn,,, Gillis sucks.



That said, the Hodgson trade looks even worse right now.

 

[dave babych returns]

Edler was even held back longer than he probably should (we went out and signed Aaron Miller and kept Edler in the minors back when we badly needed an upgrade to our forward group. One of the many reasons Nonis was fired).

Alex Edler played 75 games that year.

 

[JuniorNelson]

I wonder if the Canucks thought the lockout would take away the season? They are doing things that make you wonder?

The offence unit is a circus, but that is what camp is for. It's not unusual for a player to have a groin issue after a long layoff. On it's own this wouldn't be a big deal but it does show the forward depth off in an unattractive light. What sucks, is this is going to get worse next summer.

The preseason is shaping up ominously, I think. My reasoning is that being only 48 games long, the intensity of play will be at near post-season levels all year. So, it's like the Canucks are limping into the playoffs again. Other teams know this is a chance to snipe a playoff spot, they won't be slow starting. At least the goaltending is solid and the defense seems promising. Perhaps Gillis is thinking of adding a fix? Aren't the Canucks at the limit in number of contracts? There are no useful free agents left, anyway.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Alex Edler played 75 games that year.

Fair enough. My memory is a little hazy. Then the intention was to have Edler play in the minors (I believe he started there) but injuries forced our hand.

 

[arsmaster*]

Fair enough. My memory is a little hazy. Then the intention was to have Edler play in the minors (I believe he started there) but injuries forced our hand.

I think you're mis-remembering.

 

[Freakshow]

Raymond plays LW, but whatever.

Typically yes, but he's plays either. Most NHL'ers can play all forward positions, not all but most. They just prefer not to because they all have a comfort spot.

 

[struckmatch]

This is completely on Mike Gillis.

Not having a legitimate second line that can score (especially in the Playoffs) when your team's window to win it's first Stanley Cup in history is closing fast is really inexcusable.

Look at our last 2 playoff series, Boston and Los Angeles. We couldn't score if our lives depended on it. Against LA it was an accomplishment to even generate a scoring chance.

Without second line scoring depth it becomes increasingly difficult to ice a legitimate second power play unit as well.

Not to mention, second line players are generally strong penalty killers for a team as well, that's an area that hasn't been talked about much in regards to Kesler being hurt. It's going to be difficult for the Canucks to kill penalties anywhere nearly as effective as they have been the past few years.

All of this is on Gillis. Why are we years into his tenure and are still having PROVEN secondary scoring issues when it matters the most?

 

[y2kcanucks]

This is completely on Mike Gillis.

Not having a legitimate second line that can score (especially in the Playoffs) when your team's window to win it's first Stanley Cup in history is closing fast is really inexcusable.

Look at our last 2 playoff series, Boston and Los Angeles. We couldn't score if our lives depended on it. Against LA it was an accomplishment to even generate a scoring chance.

Without second line scoring depth it becomes increasingly difficult to ice a legitimate second power play unit as well.

Not to mention, second line players are generally strong penalty killers for a team as well, that's an area that hasn't been talked about much in regards to Kesler being hurt. It's going to be difficult for the Canucks to kill penalties anywhere nearly as effective as they have been the past few years.

All of this is on Gillis. Why are we years into his tenure and are still having PROVEN secondary scoring issues when it matters the most?

What's amusing is people still don't get it. So many people in the off-season and even now say that our biggest needs are our 3rd line center and a right handed defenseman. I guess we need a third playoff flame-out due to our lack of offense for people/Gillis to get it.

 

[Freakshow]

This is completely on Mike Gillis.

Not having a legitimate second line that can score (especially in the Playoffs) when your team's window to win it's first Stanley Cup in history is closing fast is really inexcusable.

Look at our last 2 playoff series, Boston and Los Angeles. We couldn't score if our lives depended on it. Against LA it was an accomplishment to even generate a scoring chance.

Without second line scoring depth it becomes increasingly difficult to ice a legitimate second power play unit as well.

Not to mention, second line players are generally strong penalty killers for a team as well, that's an area that hasn't been talked about much in regards to Kesler being hurt. It's going to be difficult for the Canucks to kill penalties anywhere nearly as effective as they have been the past few years.

All of this is on Gillis. Why are we years into his tenure and are still having PROVEN secondary scoring issues when it matters the most?

Even with Booth and Kesler in the line-up together, they are counter productive IMO. Both are shoot first guys, there's a reason Booth's numbers dipped when he got here, there's no one to distribute the puck to him. Injuries played a part in it too.

 

[GhostofRichardPark]

Parenteau would have been perfect sliding in on Keslers wing but once again Gillis took a nap during free agency. Sure he brought in Garrison which brings help to the back end but doesn't help our lack of scoring upfront outside of the first line.

 

[medhatcanuck]

Sedins cant handle offense by themselves.
If we want to lose in early round of playoffs tinkering with players we have for a 2nd line is a way to do it. Kesler is the ONLY player on this team suited for the second line on a championship team.

In my mind:
Sedin Sedin Burrows
______ Kesler _____
Higgins Malholtra Hansen
Raymond Lapierre Kassian

That is an imprint of a championship forwards group. One of Booth, Raymond and Kassian could play on the second line only if a all star winger is acquired.

I'm glad Gillis also realizes this.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Parenteau would have been perfect sliding in on Keslers wing but once again Gillis took a nap during free agency. Sure he brought in Garrison which brings help to the back end but doesn't help our lack of scoring upfront outside of the first line.

I hope in the speculated Luongo trade we get a 2nd line playmaker, such as Weiss.

 

[Treefingers]

I'm pretty sure our second line would be just fine if it was fully healthy, but sure, whatever you say.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Apparently the NHL may allow the Habs to buy-out Gomez. I think Gomez would work well as a fill-in for Kesler and would be a good fit with Kesler/Booth...

 

[struckmatch]

I'm pretty sure our second line would be just fine if it was fully healthy, but sure, whatever you say.

Like our past two playoff series have clearly dictated?

Not a chance. We can't score in the playoffs.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Championship teams have three lines that can burry the biscuit on any given shift.

 

[struckmatch]

Championship teams have three lines that can burry the biscuit on any given shift.

Players for LA that scored a goal in the SCF:

Carter
Kopitar
Williams
Martinez
Greene
Lewis
Brown
Doughty
Fraser

Players who scored a goal for BOS in the SCF:

Bergeron
Ference
Lucic
Ryder
Marchand
Peverley
Recchi
Paille
Kelly
Krejci

Anyone see a difference in the type of depth it takes to WIN a Stanley Cup?

This team doesn't have it offensively.

Players who scored a goal for VAN in the SCF:

Torres
Burrows
Lapierre
Daniel
Henrik

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Players for LA that scored a goal in the SCF:

Carter
Kopitar
Williams
Martinez
Greene
Lewis
Brown
Doughty
Fraser

Players who scored a goal for BOS in the SCF:

Bergeron
Ference
Lucic
Ryder
Marchand
Peverley
Recchi
Paille
Kelly
Krejci

Anyone see a difference in the type of depth it takes to WIN a Stanley Cup?

This team doesn't have it offensively.

Players who scored a goal for VAN in the SCF:

Torres
Burrows
Lapierre
Daniel
Henrik

Yep, the past two champs are perfect examples. Outstanding scor9ng depth throughout their forward lines. Chicago, Detroit, Carolina....the list goes on. Gillis and AV can **** off with this new defensive strategy.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

I'm not sold on Booth, and Kesler's been injured for how long? Yet still no one to fill that hole, that's on Mike Gillis.

Everyone begged for a big, second line player to go alongside Kesler that also had the speed to keep up with him and we got one of the best options possible in Booth.

I don't think you know what a second player looks like.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Players for LA that scored a goal in the SCF:

Carter
Kopitar
Williams
Martinez
Greene
Lewis
Brown
Doughty
Fraser

Players who scored a goal for BOS in the SCF:

Bergeron
Ference
Lucic
Ryder
Marchand
Peverley
Recchi
Paille
Kelly
Krejci

Anyone see a difference in the type of depth it takes to WIN a Stanley Cup?

This team doesn't have it offensively.

Players who scored a goal for VAN in the SCF:

Torres
Burrows
Lapierre
Daniel
Henrik

Put up the numbers for everyone that played in the SCF. Not just the Canucks versus the teams that won.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Yep, the past two champs are perfect examples. Outstanding scor9ng depth throughout their forward lines. Chicago, Detroit, Carolina....the list goes on. Gillis and AV can **** off with this new defensive strategy.

Canucks are a better offensive team than Boston or LA...

Just need to fix the 2nd line.

 

[Hodgy]

I would be happy signing Gomez to a cheap one year deal. He would likely be an improvement over anything we have currently.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Edler was even held back longer than he probably should (we went out and signed Aaron Miller and kept Edler in the minors back when we badly needed an upgrade to our forward group. One of the many reasons Nonis was fired).

I give a lot of credit to Mats Sundin for Kesler's development. Yes AV made the decision to put Kesler on Sundin's wing, but I question how much of that was due to there being no one else who could play there.

The Canucks system taught Kesler how to play defensively before offensively. AV and the current system gave Kesler what his value is more than Sundin or any other comical rationalization one can come up with. Selke winner gets to the podium.

Thank you Mats, for the less than 10% of my development game you played with me that turned me into the player I am today.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Canucks are a better offensive team than Boston or LA...

Just need to fix the 2nd line.

If we get a suitable RW for Kesler and Booth I would agree that we probably are, as it stands right now not a chance.