Ottawa Senators receiving bids for more than 900 million USD (1.24 billion CDN)

[Cotton]

So leaf fans can complain that the reason they don't buy tickets is because of money, but sens fans can't use that excuse?

If Toronto has twice as expensive tickets, but twice the average income, it's a good excuse, they're still good fans.

But if Ottawa has half the ticket costs, and half the average income, it's a poor excuse and fans are poor.

Then throw in the fact Toronto has 5,000,000 people to draw from and still can't get a long sellout streak going.

Toronto had a 13 year sellout streak end in 2015 (which I believe is one of the longest in any sport), and this was during a lot of down years while fans were paying higher prices than any other fanbase. Climb that mountain of loyalty before you try and talk down to other fanbases.

Toronto has more than 5,000,000 to draw from, which is why it's such an underserved market. It's also why it would make more sense to relo the Sens from a boring town like Ottawa thats full of Karen's to Hamilton where they have access to something like 11,000,000 from throughout the region of Niagara all the way to Kitchener-Waterloo. Ottawa being situated between Toronto and Montreal will always be a problem for it. Luckily, if anyone where able to make Ottawa interesting, it would be Ryan Reynolds.

 

[snag]

So as many has pointed out, the condition of the sale is that relocation is prohibited.

I’m curious, does this caveat hold true regardless of the length in time of ownership? If five years down the line, if they were to entertain the idea of relocation will they be forced to sell to another ownership group who will then have the same restrictions brought upon them?

Seems like an infinite loop, stay in Ottawa or sell to someone who will also have to stay in Ottawa.

I am sure there would be an expiration.

 

[snag]

Toronto had a 13 year sellout streak end in 2015 (which I believe is one of the longest in any sport), and this was during a lot of down years while fans were paying higher prices than any other fanbase. Climb that mountain of loyalty before you try and talk down to other fanbases.

Toronto has more than 5,000,000 to draw from, which is why it's such an underserved market. It's also why it would make more sense to relo the Sens from a boring town like Ottawa thats full of Karen's to Hamilton where they have access to something like 11,000,000 from throughout the region of Niagara all the way to Kitchener-Waterloo. Ottawa being situated between Toronto and Montreal will always be a problem for it. Luckily, if anyone where able to make Ottawa interesting, it would be Ryan Reynolds.

If I was an owner, the financial prospect of moving into the Golden Horseshoe...

 

[JimmyApples]

Why are Leafs fans in here talking about themselves in a thread about buying the Sens? insecure bunch

 

[BurgoShark]

Why are Leafs fans in here talking about themselves in a thread about buying the Sens? insecure bunch

They want to win a playoff series

 

[Karl Eriksson]

“Bids for the sens are higher than expected and they have to stay in ottawa by rule”

HF - “enjoy relocating to where leafs fans can better view the product”

This was a fun thread to browse

 

[JimmyApples]

They want to win a playoff series

Hah, guess it’s one way to cope with the impending Matthews departure

 

[JD1]

Toronto had a 13 year sellout streak end in 2015 (which I believe is one of the longest in any sport), and this was during a lot of down years while fans were paying higher prices than any other fanbase. Climb that mountain of loyalty before you try and talk down to other fanbases.

Toronto has more than 5,000,000 to draw from, which is why it's such an underserved market. It's also why it would make more sense to relo the Sens from a boring town like Ottawa thats full of Karen's to Hamilton where they have access to something like 11,000,000 from throughout the region of Niagara all the way to Kitchener-Waterloo. Ottawa being situated between Toronto and Montreal will always be a problem for it. Luckily, if anyone where able to make Ottawa interesting, it would be Ryan Reynolds.

How many fans take money out of their pocket to attend a leaf game?

Most "fans" attending leaf games are sitting in freebie corporate tickets

 

[Karl Eriksson]

How many fans take money out of their pocket to attend a leaf game?

Most "fans" attending leaf games are sitting in freebie corporate tickets

You can be rich and a good fan. But I agree the demographics are different. My fave fan experiences have always been in more salt of the earth cities.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I‘m originally from Brockville about an hour south of Ottawa on the St. Lawrence River and while I think most of the hardcore Leaf fans I knew there remained Leaf fans, I also knew a lot of casual Leaf fans who became Sens fans. I assume the same is true for Hans fans In the area.

As for Leaf fans at Sens games, aren’t a lot of those Leaf fans purchasing those tickets on the secondary market, primarily from Sens season ticket holders who often sell off games like the Leafs and Habs at high prices to effectively lower what they’re paying for those tickets. It’s the same reason you see a lot of Habs fans in Toronto when Montreal comes to town.

The sell off does happen, friend sold $85 face value seats ($65 season ticket holder price) for Leafs next Saturday for $190 each on Secondary. For the reason you stated, to lower overall package price.

Supposedly you can bid even if you don’t have money. I’m gonna do it for fun

Missed your chance, bidding is closed and being narrowed down to half those bidders, and then they have a chance to rebid or up their bid.

 

[StittsvilleJames]

Driving to Kanata from most parts of Ottawa takes around 25 minutes and that's with no traffic.

If it's a weekday, so you're fighting commuters, and the weather is bad, you're looking at over an hour if not more in some cases, particularly if you leave in the East end. That makes for a late night on the way home.

With Kanata as essentially the last significant neighbourhood of Ottawa on the western edge of the city, virtually everyone has to travel in the same direction (east to west before the game, west to east afterwards) so it's not as if the traffic is distributed in different directions.

At least if it were downtown (e.g. Lebreton Flats), you'd have fans going east, west and south following the game. If there was more stuff to do within walking distance, you might also mitigate the big rush as people prefer to stick around the area prior to getting into the cars.

As it stands, there's one or two (packed bars) at the arena site after the game, they close fairly soon after the game ends (you might have 45 minutes), and even Terry Fox road (where all the chain restaurants and bars are) is a long slog so you have to drive or take a bus from one of the establishments to return there.

Part of the reason some people prefer the 7:30 PM starts is that there are fewer commuters on the road, and there's time to go home and grab a bite before going to the game.

 

[NyQuil]

Stittsville is like its own magical kingdom.

 

[jbeck5]

OHL Cup is bigger. Its also the premiere showcase for kids trying to get drafted into the OHL / noticed by NCAA teams.



Its a very very exclusive club to be in.
Especially in NA.

Yeah it's definitely not bigger. Nice try though? Maybe you should google the bell Canada cup. It's known around the world and has way more teams attend than any tournament in Toronto.

Annually you get kids from different countries come to Ottawa. It's actually pretty cool.

 

[jbeck5]

Why is it impossible that >0 of those bids are from someone wanting to move the franchise away from a market that is constantly bottom 5 in the league in attendance numbers?

Someone hasn't been around long enough and it shows..you wouldn't be making that comment as an adult. You would have seen them constantly top 5 or 10 in attendance.

In Ottawa or as part of the massive RDS audience?


When did I contradict that?, as I said I think Ottawa is about to become a very big deal.


You did see the part where I said I think Ottawa could be in the top 15 in the league?

My point was that the team isn't there yet. And is currently comparable to what Quebec could be if they got a franchise.

They have minor market penetration in Atlantic Canada, they have trouble filling the current arena, and they haven't had the time to establish a larger fandom.

That's probably all about to change. Ottawa could easily be Canada's 3rd team if McDavid leaves Edmonton.

You make no sense. You claim fans watch Ottawa play Minnesota because they hate the Habs. Makes no sense. Come back with some better logic.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Driving to Kanata from most parts of Ottawa takes around 25 minutes and that's with no traffic.

If it's a weekday, so you're fighting commuters, and the weather is bad, you're looking at over an hour if not more in some cases, particularly if you leave in the East end. That makes for a late night on the way home.

With Kanata as essentially the last significant neighbourhood of Ottawa on the western edge of the city, virtually everyone has to travel in the same direction (east to west before the game, west to east afterwards) so it's not as if the traffic is distributed in different directions.

At least if it were downtown (e.g. Lebreton Flats), you'd have fans going east, west and south following the game. If there was more stuff to do within walking distance, you might also mitigate the big rush as people prefer to stick around the area prior to getting into the cars.

As it stands, there's one or two (packed bars) at the arena site after the game, they close fairly soon after the game ends (you might have 45 minutes), and even Terry Fox road (where all the chain restaurants and bars are) is a long slog so you have to drive or take a bus from one of the establishments to return there.

Part of the reason some people prefer the 7:30 PM starts is that there are fewer commuters on the road, and there's time to go home and grab a bite before going to the game.

To piggyback on this description a bit and provide a comparable for Albertan hockey fans to understand. Ottawa basically plays in the equivalent of Leduc or Airdrie with all the problems you can imagine from such a poor decision.

Commuters going home at the same time fans are trying to go to games, no nightlife, no LRT/mass transit, etc.. It was unavoidable at the time of expansion, but extremely problematic and has gotten worse over the years.

 

[Divine]

I would suggest taking off the blue glasses lol.
Sounds like you don’t know many people then.

Look it up.

The average person in Ottawa makes more money than the average Toronto & Montreal fan.

Despite that, the Sens still have bottom 5 ticket prices while the other 2 are top 5, and still don’t sell out. The Ottawa market doesn’t care about Senators hockey.

Not many people in Ottawa care for the Sens, if anything, ironically, most Sens fans don’t even live in Ottawa. It’s the Arizona of Canada for hockey.

 

[Korpse]

Look it up.

The average person in Ottawa makes more money than the average Toronto & Montreal fan.

Despite that, the Sens still have bottom 5 ticket prices while the other 2 are top 5, and still don’t sell out. The Ottawa market doesn’t care about Senators hockey.

Not many people in Ottawa care for the Sens, if anything, ironically, most Sens fans don’t even live in Ottawa. It’s the Arizona of Canada for hockey.

It’s incredible that you came in here talking income in two cites that have 2x and 3x the population with even larger gaps when you account for metro area. Phenomenal.

 

[rojac]

Stittsville is like its own magical kingdom.

Stittsville ... Just beyond the fringe fire. It was the slogan of a car dealer, I think, back in the 1970s. I haven’t thought of that slogan in years but when I read Stitttsville, it just came roaring back.

 

[umma gumma]

Look it up.

The average person in Ottawa makes more money than the average Toronto & Montreal fan.

Despite that, the Sens still have bottom 5 ticket prices while the other 2 are top 5, and still don’t sell out. The Ottawa market doesn’t care about Senators hockey.

Not many people in Ottawa care for the Sens, if anything, ironically, most Sens fans don’t even live in Ottawa. It’s the Arizona of Canada for hockey.

Most Leaf and Hab fans don't live in Toronto and Montreal either. Riveting stuff.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Why is it impossible that >0 of those bids are from someone wanting to move the franchise away from a market that is constantly bottom 5 in the league in attendance numbers?

It’s definitely possible. those bids will just be rejected.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I have no basis or way to know if $500 or $900M is right or fair but I would think it goes a little bit like this:

The value of the franchise = the current value of the team + a risk adjusted premium based on what the team could be worth under future operating/market conditions such as an arena downtown.

How much that premium is adjusted for risk probably depends on how confident/optimistic the bidders are in implementing/realizing the operating/market condition changes.

It would be a fun valuation/negotiation exercise to be a part of for sure.

The value of a team is the highest price that could be reliably gotten for it.

 

[ORRFForever]

Does the team have to stay in Ottawa?

If so, the price is insane. Too many rich people with too few toys.

 

[Race Dawg]

Toronto had a 13 year sellout streak end in 2015 (which I believe is one of the longest in any sport), and this was during a lot of down years while fans were paying higher prices than any other fanbase. Climb that mountain of loyalty before you try and talk down to other fanbases.

Toronto has more than 5,000,000 to draw from, which is why it's such an underserved market. It's also why it would make more sense to relo the Sens from a boring town like Ottawa thats full of Karen's to Hamilton where they have access to something like 11,000,000 from throughout the region of Niagara all the way to Kitchener-Waterloo. Ottawa being situated between Toronto and Montreal will always be a problem for it. Luckily, if anyone where able to make Ottawa interesting, it would be Ryan Reynolds.

Kind of Toronto elitist comment isn't it? As someone who has lived in both cities - both have their merits and negatives of course. I can admit that Ottawa can be a little drab at times but Toronto isn't exactly Vegas in any shape or form either. I lived at Yonge and Lawrence for 15 years but grew up in Ottawa West. Loved the cosmopolitan feel that Toronto delivers but since moving out TO last year my wife and I are glad to be out of the gong show that was the John Tory-run Toronto sitcom. Don't miss the car jackings, stabbings and multiple shootings that occurs on a daily basis there. Sure the Golden Horseshoe has 10 million or so residents to chose from but not all of them are hockey fans so your argument is flawed. I also lived in California for many years and LA which has more than 2x Toronto's population in the outer core could also brag about that feature over the Leafs. But they know their lane and you should too....

 

[Golden_Jet]

Look it up.

The average person in Ottawa makes more money than the average Toronto & Montreal fan.

Despite that, the Sens still have bottom 5 ticket prices while the other 2 are top 5, and still don’t sell out. The Ottawa market doesn’t care about Senators hockey.

Not many people in Ottawa care for the Sens, if anything, ironically, most Sens fans don’t even live in Ottawa. It’s the Arizona of Canada for hockey.

Leafs were 1000-2000 short during their rebuilding a lot of games. even with all the corporate support. Ottawa was top 5 in the league when they had good teams.
Too much BS in your post that you made up, like people in Ottawa don’t care for the Sens. The 9 competing bids throws your theory out the window.

Sens living in your head though , that’s nice to see.

Does the team have to stay in Ottawa?

If so, the price is insane. Too many rich people with too few toys.

Yep, if you read the thread you would of seen that.

 

[Pink Mist]

Leafs were 1000-2000 short during their rebuilding a lot of games. even with all the corporate support.

You're going to have to provide a source for that because they held a 13 year sellout streak throughout most of the rebuilding years, and even when the streak was broken it was still close to capacity. Toronto has had very few games since they've moved to the ACC/Scotiabank that hasn't been an official sellout (outside of the covid years)

EDIT: From Nov. 2021, these are the smallest crowds Toronto has had at the ACC/Scotiabank. Keep in mind a sellout there is consider ~18,900 people. Analysis | Empty seats are a big problem around the NHL. For the Leafs, not so much

18,089 Oct. 18, 2021 vs. Rangers

18,211 Oct. 16, 2021 vs. Senators

18,366 March 23, 2015 vs. Wild

18,493 Oct. 13, 2021 vs. Canadiens

18,603 Oct. 22, 2021 vs. Sharks

18,689 Nov. 2, 2021 vs. Knights

18,727 Oct. 31, 2002 vs. Thrashers

Much of low capacities were in 2021 just after things reopened during COVID so there was hesitancy, but it is still definitely not 1000-2000 short of a sellout