Ottawa Senators receiving bids for more than 900 million USD (1.24 billion CDN)

[Beau Knows]

Hopefully the new owner isn't another crazy person.

 

[Divine]

I don't actually think that. I guess I was over simplifying. I realize I worded it wrongly.

There is a lot of lower income families in Toronto too, that drive the average income down.

I more or less meant that Toronto has a much bigger pool of relatively wealthy residents compared to Ottawa that could afford the more expensive tickets.

Yes, but to simplify it for you.

This is the problem:

Time & Money.

Those who have the money, don’t have the time to go to every game.

Those who have the time, can’t afford to go. My uncle has season tickets and attends maybe 1 or 2 regular season games a year because he’s so busy. Just because you make a lot doesn’t mean you’re free.

The resale on most tickets is above face value, so there’s obviously demand. The season ticket packages are way, way, way above market value.

LA is a premier market, you also cant compare the NBA to the NHL

You don’t think being between Toronto and Montreal is a premier market for hockey? It’s the 2 biggest fanbases in the NHL.

 

[swiftwin]

Yes, but to simplify it for you.

This is the problem:

Time & Money.

Those who have the money, don’t have the time to go to every game.

Those who have the time, can’t afford to go. My uncle has season tickets and attends maybe 1 or 2 regular season games a year because he’s so busy. Just because you make a lot doesn’t mean you’re free.

The resale on most tickets is above face value, so there’s obviously demand. The season ticket packages are way, way, way above market value.



You don’t think being between Toronto and Montreal is a premier market for hockey? It’s the 2 biggest fanbases in the NHL.

You don't need to get all sensitive about the Leafs having poor attendance.

 

[Divine]

You don't need to get all sensitive about the Leafs having poor attendance.

The Leafs don’t have poor attendance?

 

[badfish]

There's also the premium someone's willing to pay to be able to say they own a pro sports team. That's up and above all the other stuff. It's why the Washington Redskins Football Team Commanders are reportedly attracting bids of $6 billion. The franchise, stadium, whatever else isn't worth anything near that; it's the egos of interested parties that's driving that potential price tag.

Indeed, you are right. The value is always what someone is willing to pay for it. If you tried to do a valuation under typical corporate finance approaches I suspect the number would be far less than what the reported bidding price is.

 

[NyQuil]

Hopefully the new owner isn't another crazy person.

I'm not sure if the bar is low or high when you're dealing with the extremely wealthy.

 

[Petrus]

No, it’s the opposite. Playing near a big market makes you more valuable because you have a chance to convert fans that are already interested in the sport.

Look at the LA Clippers, they play with a bunch of teams in the area and that helped their value, not hurt it.

Ontario is a hockey crazed market in general. Ontario has a long history of grassroots hockey. Many families across the province have kids playing hockey at various levels. I would argue that is by far the biggest reason, Ottawa has such a high valuation.

 

[Divine]

Ontario is a hockey crazed market in general. Ontario has a long history of grassroots hockey. Many families across the province have kids playing hockey at various levels. I would argue that is by far the biggest reason, Ottawa has such a high valuation.

That is exactly the same argument I’m making.

However, saying most of these Ontario crazed fans are Leafs and Habs fan is supposedly debateable to people. The biggest market in Ontario is definitely not presently the Senators.

My entire point is there’s a lot of hockey fans already in the market between 2 massive teams.

 

[Channelcat]

Complete bs.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think most teams will sell out or come close to it when the team is that competitive. Attendance when the team is bad tells a more interesting story.

I don't think Ottawa and Toronto should really be compared - after living in both cities, they are just so different. The areas surrounding Toronto are so densely populated and all of them are hockey insane - an insanity that runs down all the way to Atom AAA hockey.

Ottawa had a strong hockey following when I was there (Karlsson years) but it was definitely different.

Ya Ottawa area can support junior teams in the area, where’s in Toronto those teams fold.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Please let us have good owners who don't meddle...and Ryan Reynolds. We've been through our share. Thank you.

 

[Lady Stanley]

It’s mostly Leafs fans living or working in Ottawa or Montreal. Maybe 20% are drive ups, but the Leafs fans prefer Buffalo, it’s closer. Ottawa is a far drive from Toronto (~5 hours each way).

If you’re driving, you probably have to stay the night and make it a trip so I don’t think a lot are drive ins.

A lot of the leaf's fans are just ottawa fans with a 2nd jersey. This idea there's some blood feud between the two teams is just absurd.

I mean why would a sens fan stop liking the leafs, if that was the only team they had until 1990ish? Obviously the same applies to the habs etc.

Regardless I think people are downplaying how truly awful it is to go to that arena. It's an awful experience. They should just rename them the Kanata Senators. It's just such a buzz kill going to that arena it's like they put an arena in an emptied costco.

Keeping in mind it's Canada so going out into the middle of the nowhere is a lot less fun when it's -20. It's the anti tailgating experience. They need to be in the actual city to be relevant.

 

[Lady Stanley]

Imagine living in Kanata, Canada

Would you like to know more?

 

[NyQuil]

Keeping in mind it's Canada so going out into the middle of the nowhere is a lot less fun when it's -20. It's the anti tailgating experience. They need to be in the actual city to be relevant.

Not only that, but it's an empty field with no windbreaks for miles in any direction.

It's the coldest single location in Ottawa as far as I'm concerned.

When the NHL put freaking metal detectors in every rink following the Boston marathon bombing, it made lining up outside in the howling wind that much worse as everyone gets their shit out of their purses and bags.

 

[Lady Stanley]

Is the arena thing a little overblown?

The drive from Ottawa to Kanata is similar to like, a drive from Terwilleger to downtown in Edmonton and I can almost guarantee the majority of the fans that watch the Oilers commute 30 minutes + to watch the games.

If I was in Ottawa I would have no issues driving to Kanata for a game.

It's not the distance, it's the fact you feel like you're going to a giant costco. In fact it has nothing to do with distance but pretty everything else. It was my first NHL game and it was underwhelming. Felt like I forgot my shopping cart when I got in line up to get my tickets scanned.

And this is the entertainment business feeling is everything.

I've gotten more of a crowd buzz standing outside of OHL arenas.

 

[leafsfan5]

I was going to bid but I am afraid this takes me out of the running

 

[NyQuil]

I was going to bid but I am afraid this takes me out of the running

They take Canadian Tire money.

 

[Petrus]

Actually I think the streak I was referring to ended a few years ago and was before they became good again, but started when they used to be good way back.

Weird how you say that, yet leaf fans project it like a positive.


You say the ticket situation in Toronto sucks and yet instead of sadness and shame being projected for their shitty situation, I see bragging to other fanbases.

Why would it be brag worthy that the leaf fans can't buy tickets even when they aren't sold out because rich business people who don't care about the team drove up the price of tickets. Why is that a flex? Why aren't leaf fans coming into these threads and either not mentioning attendance because their situation sucks, or bowing to other fanbases for having a better attendance situation? I never see leaf fans saying Ottawas attendance situation is favourable. It's always put in a negative connotation. Makes no sense. It's inconsistent if what you say is true.

Over the decades, Toronto has seen a lot of bad Maple Leafs teams (more than its fair share I would argue). Despite that, the demand for tickets has remained strong (near capacity attendance year after year).

There are two sides to look at this.

The first is that it is a positive from the perspective of sustainability and financial strength of the franchise. Maybe this where the boasting comes in?

But if you look at the situation from the average Torontonian, it's not so positive at all. Nobody wants to pay out of pocket $300 resale prices for a pair of nosebleeds. So instead, many just book a client meeting at the Game and just put in the marketing budget. That's likely what is happening in Toronto and why there is so much corporate demand for Leaf tickets. It's a way to circumvent cost.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

This does not surprise me. With the new arena deal being negotiated/near done. This is extremely attractive for new owners/ownership groups.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Anyone who tries to value a hockey team like a real business is an idiot. These are playthings for billionaires and status symbols.

 

[Lady Stanley]

Not only that, but it's an empty field with no windbreaks for miles in any direction.

Seriously I thought it was just me, but it was the worst cross parking lot trek of my life.

It's the coldest single location in Ottawa as far as I'm concerned.

When the NHL put freaking metal detectors in every rink following the Boston marathon bombing, it made lining up outside in the howling wind that much worse as everyone gets their shit out of their purses and bags.

Americans tailgaiting



Sens fans tailgaiting, it's that bad, even if the weather is reasonable.

 

[NyQuil]

Sens fans tailgaiting, it's that bad, even if the weather is reasonable.

There have been a few very nice tailgating experiences but they generally require an extended playoff run into mid to late May and June.

In 2007 and in 2017, they had a beach bar on site, bouncy castles for the kids, beer tents, live music, etc.

Few and far between though, and obviously nothing like a US college or NFL tailgate.

 

[Akrapovince]

Driving to Kanata from most parts of Ottawa takes around 25 minutes and that's with no traffic.

If it's a weekday, so you're fighting commuters, and the weather is bad, you're looking at over an hour if not more in some cases, particularly if you leave in the East end. That makes for a late night on the way home.

With Kanata as essentially the last significant neighbourhood of Ottawa on the western edge of the city, virtually everyone has to travel in the same direction (east to west before the game, west to east afterwards) so it's not as if the traffic is distributed in different directions.

At least if it were downtown (e.g. Lebreton Flats), you'd have fans going east, west and south following the game. If there was more stuff to do within walking distance, you might also mitigate the big rush as people prefer to stick around the area prior to getting into the cars.

As it stands, there's one or two (packed bars) at the arena site after the game, they close fairly soon after the game ends (you might have 45 minutes), and even Terry Fox road (where all the chain restaurants and bars are) is a long slog so you have to drive or take a bus from one of the establishments to return there.

Part of the reason some people prefer the 7:30 PM starts is that there are fewer commuters on the road, and there's time to go home and grab a bite before going to the game.

Okay yeah a little narrow minded of me to think that the commute was the main issue. I think having nothing to do post or pre-game would turn me off.

 

[NyQuil]

Anyone who tries to value a hockey team like a real business is an idiot. These are playthings for billionaires and status symbols.

If you value it as a business, no.

If you value it as an investment, well, it appears as if few sports franchises lose their value as a restricted commodity.

Okay yeah a little narrow minded of me to think that the commute was the main issue. I think having nothing to do post or pre-game would turn me off.

Well, the fact that there isn't much to do makes the commute worse, because everyone leaves at the same time.

Restaurants and bars around the city do run their own buses to and from their establishments, but again, they have to leave at a certain time and you're still fighting traffic, only in a school bus.

I've been going to games for about 20 years now, and I always go to the bar(s) onsite after the game. It's preferable to sitting in your car in the parking lot. Not necessarily an option for families.

Unfortunately, like I said, they close pretty quickly, you have time for about one beer.

 

[Akrapovince]

The arena location sucks. The location for people that live in Gatineau, Orleans and or Findlay Creek/Ottawa South its a very very long way to go.

Secondly the parking lot is one of the worst ever to get in and out of. Thirdly there is nothing walking distance no restaurants bars etc. If they had the centrum right beside it, it would be different but its not its across the highway.

The proposed new location is perfect and has transit coming from both east west and north south and its right beside gatineau.

I wasn’t aware that there was virtually nothing to do pre and post game and that the likelihood of having people walk in and buy tickets was zero.