Ottawa Senators receiving bids for more than 900 million USD (1.24 billion CDN)

[jbeck5]

Look at the ticket prices in Toronto versus Ottawa. That’s the biggest reason. If Toronto took away all the corporate seats and priced them at $100, it would have a completely different vibe.

However, it’s a business first and they would rather have $500 a seat from corporations than $100 a seat from the average fan.

So if you check out the incomes in Toronto and Ottawa, Toronto doesn't just have 5 times as many people making +100,000, +500,000, +1,000,000 etc. Because it's a corporate city, it's got like 10-15 times the amount of people making 6 or 7 figures. Ottawa just really doesn't have the market for a bunch of execs making 500,000 or whatever. Because of this, they have 10-15 times more businesses buying season tickets, and 10-15 times more wealthy people able to buy individual tickets...this drives up the price of tickets, however there are many more rich people to afford these prices.

So now that we've clarified that money isn't the issue, what's your excuse?

 

[SPF6ty9]

The site is in LeBreton Flats.

I dont live in Ottawa, but it looks like there are 2 near the site.
Pimisi and Bayview.

I dont know if these are up and running or are just planned. Maybe someone from Ottawa can chime in?

Pimisi will be the closest I would presume. Last summer it handled the much larger Bluesfest crowds very well, I was actually surprised. Might be a short walk, but if the trains are carrying crowds as efficiently as they did for Bluesfest, it should work great for Sens hockey.

 

[jbeck5]

Never mind for a moment that Toronto has one the most expensive tickets in the NHL, but you are citing a drop in attendance in 2021 which was impacted by Covid and had a maximum 10,000 seating capacity at some point.

Attendance has never been a problem in Toronto.

I'm not saying it's a problem. I'm saying for a fanbase that brags about attendance so much, you would think 5,000,000 would be able to buy 5,000 tickets, but I look back throughout the years, and regardless of covid, they haven't sold out every game.

I remember hearing of a sellout streak in Colorado...so I would assume Toronto must have it beat considering how much bigger they are and how much they brag about attendance. But no long sellout streak. Not even right before covid. No long sellout streak.

Makes one wonder why the leaf fans flex so much about attendance when I never heard a single Colorado fan flex on attendance when they had that long streak.

What's the leaf fans obsession with attendance when they don't even have a long sellout streak themselves?

 

[Divine]

So if you check out the incomes in Toronto and Ottawa, Toronto doesn't just have 5 times as many people making +100,000, +500,000, +1,000,000 etc. Because it's a corporate city, it's got like 10-15 times the amount of people making 6 or 7 figures. Ottawa just really doesn't have the market for a bunch of execs making 500,000 or whatever. Because of this, they have 10-15 times more businesses buying season tickets, and 10-15 times more wealthy people able to buy individual tickets...this drives up the price of tickets, however there are many more rich people to afford these prices.

So now that we've clarified that money isn't the issue, what's your excuse?

What are you talking about?

Money is the issue. A lot of these rich people are working during games.

You think people make millions and just have a 9-5, most go home and don’t have to work? Most people work long hours and take work home when they’re paid significant money. Just because there’s a lot of CEO’s, or partners at a law firm, or investment bankers, or tech workers making lots of money, doesn’t mean they’re all free at 7. Most of them are working during the games, or need to be home for an early day the next day, etc. They can’t go to every regular season game like you’re imagining.

In a business environment with high paying jobs there’s more work. I don’t know why you can’t wrap your head around it.

I don’t even understand your argument? That the Sens have more fans than the Leafs? Is that why you’re trying to convince me?

 

[NyQuil]

Is the arena thing a little overblown?

The drive from Ottawa to Kanata is similar to like, a drive from Terwilleger to downtown in Edmonton and I can almost guarantee the majority of the fans that watch the Oilers commute 30 minutes + to watch the games.

If I was in Ottawa I would have no issues driving to Kanata for a game.

Driving to Kanata from most parts of Ottawa takes around 25 minutes and that's with no traffic.

If it's a weekday, so you're fighting commuters, and the weather is bad, you're looking at over an hour if not more in some cases, particularly if you leave in the East end. That makes for a late night on the way home.

With Kanata as essentially the last significant neighbourhood of Ottawa on the western edge of the city, virtually everyone has to travel in the same direction (east to west before the game, west to east afterwards) so it's not as if the traffic is distributed in different directions.

At least if it were downtown (e.g. Lebreton Flats), you'd have fans going east, west and south following the game. If there was more stuff to do within walking distance, you might also mitigate the big rush as people prefer to stick around the area prior to getting into the cars.

As it stands, there's one or two (packed bars) at the arena site after the game, they close fairly soon after the game ends (you might have 45 minutes), and even Terry Fox road (where all the chain restaurants and bars are) is a long slog so you have to drive or take a bus from one of the establishments to return there.

Part of the reason some people prefer the 7:30 PM starts is that there are fewer commuters on the road, and there's time to go home and grab a bite before going to the game.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

I hope that the Ottawa Senators don't go to the highest bidder, but rather to an ownership group that will care for the team after the purchase is made. For example, by spending to the salary cap limit and being an actual fan of the team.

You would think that the highest bidder would also care for the team after purchase, considering the fact that they should care for an asset that they paid so much for. But this isn't always the case.

Unfortunately, the sellers don't usually care what happens with a team after they sell. So they will take the highest bid.

The sellers are retaining 10%, so you can bet they have a huge interest in selling to someone with a credible plan

 

[jbeck5]

Is the arena thing a little overblown?

The drive from Ottawa to Kanata is similar to like, a drive from Terwilleger to downtown in Edmonton and I can almost guarantee the majority of the fans that watch the Oilers commute 30 minutes + to watch the games.

If I was in Ottawa I would have no issues driving to Kanata for a game.

No. Terwilliger is more like if the arena was at Bayshore or st Laurent.

Where it is is more like having the arena near the airport in Edmonton. I'm sure people from the north side of Edmonton would love that drive through the city to the outer limits of the southern tip of the city.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Their value is probably valued higher because it’s in Ontario.

A lot of hockey fans already in the area, and a ton of Leafs fans in Ottawa who take over when the Leafs are in town.

They’re probably hoping to create a competitive team and take over that fanbase. It could happen with the new generation, and lots of Leafs fans are glad to drive to Ottawa for cheap tickets, although I don’t know if tickets are still going to be super cheap (relative to Toronto) if it sells for 900M+.

Ottawa tickets are really cheap currently, bottom 5 in the league and the cheapest in Canada while being near the market with the most expensive, so it has huge potential if you can convert some of those fans.

Leafs fan thinks leafs fans are driving the value of the sens for their handful of home games a year. And they wonder why they rank as the top hated fan base.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Imagine living in Kanata, Canada

 

[jbeck5]

What are you talking about?

Money is the issue. A lot of these rich people are working during games.

You think people make millions and just have a 9-5, most go home and don’t have to work? Most people work long hours and take work home when they’re paid significant money. Just because there’s a lot of CEO’s, or partners at a law firm, or investment bankers, or tech workers making lots of money, doesn’t mean they’re all free at 7. Most of them are working during the games, or need to be home for an early day the next day, etc. They can’t go to every regular season game like you’re imagining.

In a business environment with high paying jobs there’s more work. I don’t know why you can’t wrap your head around it.

I don’t even understand your argument? That the Sens have more fans than the Leafs? Is that why you’re trying to convince me?

So leaf fans can complain that the reason they don't buy tickets is because of money, but sens fans can't use that excuse?

If Toronto has twice as expensive tickets, but twice the average income, it's a good excuse, they're still good fans.

But if Ottawa has half the ticket costs, and half the average income, it's a poor excuse and fans are poor.

Then throw in the fact Toronto has 5,000,000 people to draw from and still can't get a long sellout streak going.

 

[NyQuil]

Imagine living in Kanata, Canada

They're actually derived from the same Aboriginal word.

 

[Divine]

Leafs fan thinks leafs fans are driving the value of the sens for their handful of home games a year. And they wonder why they rank as the top hated fan base.

They are.

You don’t think the value of the Sens is affected by their proximity between two of the largest fan bases?

If you take this Sens team and put it in a town the same size of Ottawa but not near another big market, it wouldn’t be as valuable.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

It makes sense.

Rogers Arena was made up of 30% Sens fans then I realized I only go to one Oilers game a year and that’s when the Sens come and I will not miss that game.

lol no it's not

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Ryan Reynolds and friends have deep pockets.

 

[Three On Zero]

They are.

You don’t think the value of the Sens is affected by their proximity between two of the largest fan bases?

If you take this Sens team and put it in a town the same size of Ottawa but not near another big market, it wouldn’t be as valuable.

The value is high because it's already an established hockey team with an established brand. Proximity to other teams would have little to no impact. Hell logically if Ottawa was closer to larger markets you'd think the price would be lower since they'd struggle to compete with the larger markets causing the price to go down

It makes sense.

Rogers Arena was made up of 30% Sens fans then I realized I only go to one Oilers game a year and that’s when the Sens come and I will not miss that game.

With how ticket prices have constantly been rising, you typically see a healthy mix of jerseys now a days at games

 

[Divine]

So leaf fans can complain that the reason they don't buy tickets is because of money, but sens fans can't use that excuse?

If Toronto has twice as expensive tickets, but twice the average income, it's a good excuse, they're still good fans.

But if Ottawa has half the ticket costs, and half the average income, it's a poor excuse and fans are poor.

Then throw in the fact Toronto has 5,000,000 people to draw from and still can't get a long sellout streak going.

Ottawa does not have half the income of Toronto. The average income in Toronto is $61K. The average income in Ottawa is 64K.

The average person in Ottawa makes more than in Toronto, despite tickets being half the price.

What you’re saying makes sense but it’s not true. The average person has more disposable income in Ottawa than in Toronto. Lots of people from Toronto move to Ottawa for cheaper housing resulting in more disposable income.

I don’t know why you think the average person in Toronto is twice as rich as Ottawa? The average person in Ottawa makes more and has more money.

 

[Petrus]

I'm not saying it's a problem. I'm saying for a fanbase that brags about attendance so much, you would think 5,000,000 would be able to buy 5,000 tickets, but I look back throughout the years, and regardless of covid, they haven't sold out every game.

I remember hearing of a sellout streak in Colorado...so I would assume Toronto must have it beat considering how much bigger they are and how much they brag about attendance. But no long sellout streak. Not even right before covid. No long sellout streak.

Makes one wonder why the leaf fans flex so much about attendance when I never heard a single Colorado fan flex on attendance when they had that long streak.

What's the leaf fans obsession with attendance when they don't even have a long sellout streak themselves?

Are you surprise Colorado having one of the best team in the League with some of the lowest ticket prices in League can consistently sell out? By contrast, Toronto has had many playoff failures and has one of the most expensive tickets in the League.

The only reason I can go to Leaf games is because I have access to corporate seats. That's reality for most of us in Toronto. I lived most of my life in Toronto, all I hear constantly is the complaint that Leaf tickets are too expensive and not accessible to the average Torontonian.

There is no bragging here in Toronto. It's all complaining about ticket prices and how much we suck.

 

[Divine]

The value is high because it's already an established hockey team with an established brand. Proximity to other teams would have little to no impact. Hell logically if Ottawa was closer to larger markets you'd think the price would be lower since they'd struggle to compete with the larger markets causing the price to go down.

No, it’s the opposite. Playing near a big market makes you more valuable because you have a chance to convert fans that are already interested in the sport.

Look at the LA Clippers, they play with a bunch of teams in the area and that helped their value, not hurt it.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I have no basis or way to know if $500 or $900M is right or fair but I would think it goes a little bit like this:

The value of the franchise = the current value of the team + a risk adjusted premium based on what the team could be worth under future operating/market conditions such as an arena downtown.

How much that premium is adjusted for risk probably depends on how confident/optimistic the bidders are in implementing/realizing the operating/market condition changes.

The valuation is because it is more than just the team in the deal.

The deal also includes all the land that is owned by the organization and includes the building of an arena/venue downtown.

There's also the premium someone's willing to pay to be able to say they own a pro sports team. That's up and above all the other stuff. It's why the Washington Redskins Football Team Commanders are reportedly attracting bids of $6 billion. The franchise, stadium, whatever else isn't worth anything near that; it's the egos of interested parties that's driving that potential price tag.

 

[jbeck5]

Ottawa does not have half the income of Toronto. The average income in Toronto is $61K. The average income in Ottawa is 64K.

The average person in Ottawa makes more than in Toronto, despite tickets being half the price.

What you’re saying makes sense but it’s not true. The average person has more disposable income in Ottawa than in Toronto. Lots of people from Toronto move to Ottawa for cheaper housing resulting in more disposable income.

I don’t know why you think the average person in Toronto is twice as rich as Ottawa? The average person in Ottawa makes more and has more money.

I don't actually think that. I guess I was over simplifying. I realize I worded it wrongly.

There is a lot of lower income families in Toronto too, that drive the average income down.

I more or less meant that Toronto has a much bigger pool of relatively wealthy residents compared to Ottawa that could afford the more expensive tickets.

 

[bert]

Is the arena thing a little overblown?

The drive from Ottawa to Kanata is similar to like, a drive from Terwilleger to downtown in Edmonton and I can almost guarantee the majority of the fans that watch the Oilers commute 30 minutes + to watch the games.

If I was in Ottawa I would have no issues driving to Kanata for a game.

The arena location sucks. The location for people that live in Gatineau, Orleans and or Findlay Creek/Ottawa South its a very very long way to go.

Secondly the parking lot is one of the worst ever to get in and out of. Thirdly there is nothing walking distance no restaurants bars etc. If they had the centrum right beside it, it would be different but its not its across the highway.

The proposed new location is perfect and has transit coming from both east west and north south and its right beside gatineau.

 

[Three On Zero]

For a team on the lower end of attendance this year, it crazy how high of a valuation they have. But alas NHL teams seem to rarely come available for sale

 

[jbeck5]

Are you surprise Colorado having one of the best team in the League with some of the lowest ticket prices in League can consistently sell out? By contrast, Toronto has had many playoff failures and has one of the most expensive tickets in the League.

The only reason I can go to Leaf games is because I have access to corporate seats. That's reality for most of us in Toronto. I lived most of my life in Toronto, all I hear constantly is the complaint that Leaf tickets are too expensive and not accessible to the average Torontonian.

There is no bragging here in Toronto. It's all complaining about ticket prices and how much we suck.

Actually I think the streak I was referring to ended a few years ago and was before they became good again, but started when they used to be good way back.

Weird how you say that, yet leaf fans project it like a positive.


You say the ticket situation in Toronto sucks and yet instead of sadness and shame being projected for their shitty situation, I see bragging to other fanbases.

Why would it be brag worthy that the leaf fans can't buy tickets even when they aren't sold out because rich business people who don't care about the team drove up the price of tickets. Why is that a flex? Why aren't leaf fans coming into these threads and either not mentioning attendance because their situation sucks, or bowing to other fanbases for having a better attendance situation? I never see leaf fans saying Ottawas attendance situation is favourable. It's always put in a negative connotation. Makes no sense. It's inconsistent if what you say is true.

 

[Three On Zero]

No, it’s the opposite. Playing near a big market makes you more valuable because you have a chance to convert fans that are already interested in the sport.

Look at the LA Clippers, they play with a bunch of teams in the area and that helped their value, not hurt it.

LA is a premier market, you also cant compare the NBA to the NHL

 

[Lshap]

They're actually derived from the same Aboriginal word.

I believe the word translates to: "Unhappy commuter".