Ottawa 67s 2024 25 Season Thread Part Iii
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OMG67
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It is a more responsible mix. Having 9-10 in the first five rounds is way too much. You cannot possibly develop that many players in one draft.
beastintheeast
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Oliver True
[TR]
Kasper Simontaival never played
Kimi Körbler
Since 2014 these are the only 2nd round picks we have made
Does anyone remember them of course besides OMG67 and his son kimi
[td]
[/TR]58
[/td][td]6
[/td][td]9
[/td][td]15
[/td]Kimi Körbler
Since 2014 these are the only 2nd round picks we have made
Does anyone remember them of course besides OMG67 and his son kimi
OMG67
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Simontaival would have been a good one had Covid not gotten in the way. He was an important Finn player at the WJHC. Not sure if he’d have reported though.
beastintheeast
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My point that we need to consider is that if the 67's and I think it is the sme for mo9st teams do not find players in the second round then the addition of a 3rd pick seems even more remote.
However allowing teams to have 3 Import players will aid the Have teams. Someone like London or Kitchener can trade for players and have more impact.
The actual draft means little it is the 3rd open slot.
OMG67
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The point really is that if you draft 17 year olds, then they have a three year cycle. You can use your 1st round pick every year to replace the graduating Import. You’ll always have a 17, 18, and 19 year old. Just gotta find a way to keep them and hope they don’t leave early. If so, you have to rejig the cycle. No biggie.
beastintheeast
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But really, how many 2nd rund picks are great players? We then get to your argument that you have a player with little ability taking a spot that a Canadian kid could play.
OMG67
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LOL. Who cares about the 2nd round if you never pick in the 2nd round? That’s the point.
2025 - 1st round pick 17 year old
2026 - 1st round pick 17 year old
2027 - 1st round pick 17 year old
In 2025 you have the 17 year old
In 2026 you have the 2025 pick (18 year old) and the 2026 1st pick (17 year old)
In 2027 you have the 2025 pick (19 year old), the 2026 pick (18 year old), and the 2027 1st pick (17 year old)
In 2028, the 2025 pick graduates and you pick another Import in the 1st round…and so on, and so on, and so on…..
I don’t even see a need for a 3rd round. If you are going into the Import draft with no returning Imports, you deserve what you get the next year!
beastintheeast
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You made my point thank you.
It is not the 3 round picks at all that teams are looking for but it is a disguise to allow teams tohave 3 Import players.
That is what I have said all along.
Hell almost no one picks ineh 2nd round and no one would pick in the 3rd round unless they had hidden a player
The thing is, if they say they are going to allow teams to have 3 imports and leave it like that, then Canadian parents of players will get upset.
BUt that is exactly what they want.
OMG67
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I think the idea is that the OA limit would likely be reduced because of players going NCAA. But, I am not entirely sure what the motivation is.
Well looking forward to the draft. Hopefully we hit a home run, we need it. I also think Boyd/Egert need it after a lackluster trade deadline. We also need a good summer recruitment wise, we need to finally make noise with a few high level ncaa/ american kids commits to show Ottawa is a destination. With the new rules there is no excuse imo.If we don't manage to do that keeping DC was a big mistake.
beastintheeast
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The Missiauga version of Larry Curly and Moe has to justify itself because I think all 3 have contracts ending. Not sure about Jan he signed a multi-year in 2023
I hope that they have a great day today. The players come out of this singing about how much they want to be in the NCC and the top 3 sign offer sheets quickly. That will go a long way to making fans and me happier.
As to NCAA commits, I am going to wait and see. Vandenberg would be the big test. If Boyd is going to sign anyone, it would be him.
OMG67
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I really feel Vandenberg is the big test as well. I cannot see a scenario where playing in Cedar Rapids is preferable over playing at home in Ottawa. Cedar Rapids is in the middle of nowhere Iowa. It isn’t a great team. The team doesn’t score much. The team had seven ‘05s and thirteen ‘06s so it is not like they had a young team.
If the 67’s are unable to pull in Vandenberg, a local boy, then I’m not sure what to say. That should be the low hanging fruit signing for the NCAA recruits.
The reality is this offseason is a good test to see where they truly sit within the league. If a bunch of team sign a bunch of quality NCAA recruit’s and Ottawa is unable to get anyone then I think we have our answer. And, vice-versa. If we sign a few of them and move forward better positioned, we also have an answer. It iwll be an interesting summer. I am looking forward to getting some answers and having a lot of the speculation that has been swirling around be supported one way or the other by the answers this summer will provide.
beastintheeast
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I agree
There are a couple of reasons that he would play in CR. The first is that he will get ice time on a team that has room and is actually in the playoffs in their league. Also, he will possibly get a chance to develop his offense.
The other side of the coin is that if he stays here, he will be at home playing in the OHL on a team that may or may not make the playoffs and more importantly, he may not get the same amount of ice time. He is a left shot, and if he is not a center, then he falls into that quagmire at LW.
All the pros about playing here are great and the Cons can be rectified I think but are going to be difficult depending on how the family has observed last year under the CR coach vs DC in Ottawa.
Again, as I said, the deal is that Larry and Curly are going to have to sell the team, and Moe is going to really have to do a lot of dancing.
OMG67
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They have 13 ‘06s that should return this year unless some of them play NCAA. They have another 5 ‘07s. That is 18 players older than he is that should be ahead of him on the development scale. So, it is not like there is a lot of room when you consider he is younger as an ‘08. So I don’t think his ice time is guaranteed. At best, he earns it based on his capability. So, nothing will be handed to him.
beastintheeast
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I agree, but in CR, the ice time is guaranteed;; that is the difference. Remember he is not set on the NHL but is looking at Providence
I’m not sure you're fully familiar with the style of play in the USHL. Ice time isn’t typically guaranteed at that level either. If a player is looking for guaranteed minutes, something like Nepean Jr A might be a more realistic option.
There hasn’t been a single 100-point player in the USHL, even when stats are pro-rated over a 68-game season. So, when people refer to players like Giacomo Martino and Will Zellers as 60–70 point guys, I think that needs context. While I don’t have proof, I believe those players would likely be closer to 100-point producers in the OHL—comparable to someone like Patrick Thomas in Brantford. The OHL consistently sees 10–15 players hit that mark each season. For example, Lardis has more goals than the USHL's top scorer has total points. That might tell you something about where the more offensively open style of play exists.
I hope those making the decisions this weekend - whether it's Larry, Curly, or Moe—consider a broader perspective than yours. That said, you are entitled to your own opinion, and this is just mine.
OMG67
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Ice time is guaranteed? How so? I’ve not read anything that suggests that when a Canadian player goes to the USHL, they get guaranteed ice time. I think you are making an assumption that isn‘t real.
My wishlist for the next two days
Round one: a true center with size and skill
Round two: right wing with size that can score
Round three: a) d-man that can be ready in 26/27
b) a developmental center
Round 4: a) goalie that can come in as the bug
b) forward with size
Aside from that I don't want much more as I'm not very demanding.
Round one: a true center with size and skill
Round two: right wing with size that can score
Round three: a) d-man that can be ready in 26/27
b) a developmental center
Round 4: a) goalie that can come in as the bug
b) forward with size
Aside from that I don't want much more as I'm not very demanding.
beastintheeast
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If you take a look at the USHL, though, it has a system where you grow and play. My point is this and it has nothing to do with the draft I am actually hoping for them to draft 2 centers or an RH forward and center.
My point was tht Vandenberg has choices. He can play on a team that he is going to get ice time with or come to Ottawa and maybe get reasonable minutes.
OMG67
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Where you sometimes tie yourself in knots is when you say things like “guaranteed icetime” followed by the USHL has a “path where you grow and play.”
Does the OHL not have the same path? Does Ottawa not have the same path? Teams may implement that path differently but the reality is as players show capability, they play more and they grow more.
Eshkawkogan was given a heavy workload in year one because he showed capable so DC kept feeding him with icetime. Amidovski did not show capability so he wasn’t given the icetime. We can discuss ome of the more complex situations like Ekberg and Korbler but at the end of the day, the teams aren’t always going to get it right.
If we go back to DC’s first season (post Covid), we had a lot of young players. The teams as weak because of how young they were. The second year, most people predicted Ottawa to be near the bottom of the league but those young players performed admirably. DC played them to the level of their ability. Boyd augmented that team with some super players at the deadline and gave them an opportunity to win a Championship. It may not have worked out but it doesn’t change the reality that young players got ice time that suited their ability and they were highly successful.
But, somehow now that season makes no difference in evaluation of competency for DC and Boyd. I may not be a fan that supports DC, but when I feel people are going overboard and are being unfair, I will support DC in ways I feel are fair.
The reality is we had a poor draft in 2023. Whitehead is “ok” but he isn’t elite. That said, it wasn’t a very deep draft. If you look at the 10 players picked after Whitehead, no one really stands out much. There are some decent players but it is not like we made a mistake pick. Sometimes certain drafts aren’t as deep and you get less to work with. Since the 2023 picks are the ones we are looking at this year to start to take a step forward, we are really looking at Whitehead, Dietsch, Yanni, Nelson, and Houben as picks 2nd through 5th round. Each of those players have some attributes but none are what you would call underachievers. I’ve seen nothing to suggest there is more in the tank as 17 year olds. So, you cannot expect the coach to make more out of a player than they have to give. I feel like you are not being fair with DC in this area. We have a long list of players that have developed very well, including players that asked to be moved to other teams where they didn’t really produce at a higher level than they did here. To me, that is a big factor. You’d think T hat Mews would have blown up going to Sudbury. He was, “being handcuffed in Ottawa. Harnessed by DC. Held back from his potential.” Then he goes to Sudbury and he is surrounded by better players with a great opportunity to step forward but he produced less. Surrounded by better players, how can he produce less? Maybe he got less opportunity because other players played more minutes? Whatever the reason, who cares? Brad Gardiner was traded to Barrie but he didn’t get premium ice. 49 points as an 18 year old in Ottawa and 38 points as a 19 year old in Barrie. Did Barrie develop him better?
I think you are VERY unfair when it comes to placing unrealistic expectations on DC. I think there are loads of examples that show DC is a fine developer of talent. Will there be the odd player here or there that maybe didn’t get the proper attention? Sure. But, that happens on every team for a myriad of reasons. It is not Ottawa-centric.
Does DC have issues? Absolutely. Should he be the coach? Ideally, no. But, although I agree with you that we’d be better off with a different coach, I don’T think we agree on the reasons why.
OMG67
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The D-Men aren’t in heavy supply at the top end so we will likley see a run on them early in the 2nd round. If we can still get that 1st tier of D-Man in the 2nd round at our pick, I think we have to nab one of them. If we wait until the 3rd round, we will likely have lost that opportunity to pick in that first tier. I am hoping David Buchman from the OVT is available at our 2nd pick. He likely will not be available but if he is, he’s the guy I have circled for the 2nd round.
Although I don't disagree with you I do feel we need to build up our forward group. The player you mentioned is likely good but this year I'm not as informed on the draft. I use to rely a lot on hockey prospects but they've pared down their O coverage so I am a bit blind this year.
OMG67
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There aren’t a lot of solid defence available. This mirrors last year. That is two straight years of not great defence depth. It was why when we heard about Mews going to Sudbury, I circled Blonda because he may not be the best prospect out there but he is a prospect that stands alone. It is also why picking Eshkawkogan was so important in hindsight. I think we can get some scoring later. There are about 40-50 solid players not including some potential Americans, but maybe 8-10 of them are D-Men. I think with the early pick in the 3rd round (@48), we will likely be able to pick into the depth of forwards and be ok, maybe even get one with the 2nd 3rd round pick (@ 53). But it is unlikely we will get as talented player on defence. So, if it is best player available, we likely wouldn’t draft a D-Man with any of those top 4 picks. But, if you are going to manage the draft a bit, I think that 2nd pick is where you get the D-Man simply because the depth of the D-Men is weak.
If we see a fast run on D-Men early in the 2nd round, maybe we’d have to abandon that plan because the 32nd pick may be a bit too late but I am hoping that is not the case.
I think @Jordan Malette can chime in with some verification.
