Fastpace
The Devil's Advocate in Person
The 67's clearly beat London in the 3rd, 3–2 with a 12-5 shots advantage. It doesn't matter losing by 7 or by 1, always look for something positive to work with from a loss. Ottawa won the third period
Ottawa 67s 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II
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gadder
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- Oct 15, 2023
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Some "positives" from todays' game (London "practice?)
- It's clear Nelson is not ready for prime time. He's good very often but not enough for a starting role yet
- Conway is even less ready, if ever
- London is 24-3. We are 11-10 or so. That's us- we are mediocre. There's no point in buying this trade window. Let's move on to the rebuild.
- It's clear Nelson is not ready for prime time. He's good very often but not enough for a starting role yet
- Conway is even less ready, if ever
- London is 24-3. We are 11-10 or so. That's us- we are mediocre. There's no point in buying this trade window. Let's move on to the rebuild.
Disagree he's much better behind the net.
First time ever I left the game after 2, just couldn't watch it anymore.
Billyjack
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- Dec 6, 2013
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London stopped shooting after the second until the penalty shot and their power play, plus it was the scrubs on the ice. Let's not fool ourselves. It was a 60 minute lesson on how to play hockey. They would be best to accept it and learn.
Ottawa was beaten badly by a team with better skill and better coaching. It doesn't get much clearer than that. The only shots that mean anything are the ones that go in the net.
I have rarely seen a team go 5 for 4 on the PP. The PK % on that is negative infinity.
Fastpace
The Devil's Advocate in Person
Why Nelson ? Was he the only soul on the ice getting beaten? What were all his teammates doing on the ice? Win as a team and lose as a team, that including all rookies on the team
beastintheeast
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No but he is the goalie. @frontsfan67 will back me up on this playing a hungry London game with a tookie in nets isnever a good idea. That is a Caputi move.
London comes into every game humgry and looking to improve stats. Humter coaches by his name his team is always hunting and looking for prey (mistakes)
Playing Nelson and not saying he was in for an injury now to me makes it official that we have 3 goalies on the team.
Now we have an issue to tdeal with.
You cannot blame Nelson for the game. He is a rookie and rookies have bad games and get beaten. Hel even allstar goalies have games like that (Roy Montreal)
The question though to me is are you willilng to take up a position in goal when you could be better used with a forward or another defenceman.
Obviously 3 of our 4 OA are in a bind. I think Gerrrior and Stonehouse played yeasterday to give more strength to the forward lines. OOPS
Having 3 goaliles though makes you wonder what the plan is.
I know I have said this and got shot down but I have to think the sooner Boyd decides what he is doing and pulls the plug the better.
Brady has been back long enough that if there were any teams interested he would know by now.
No one at this stage (except maybe Brampton} needs a back up goalie
@sirius67fan I take it you were not around for the Peter Lee year. Hell even the starting goalie wanted to leave a couple of games.
@OMG67 I have to think after this weekend where we had trouble beatin the Petes and then get blownout Boyd has to see that this is a rebuild so forget about buying anything except maybe a couple of hockey sticks or Christmas presents for the family and look at this and next year as rebuilding years.
To me the optimum at this point woud be
1. resolve the Mews situation if it still exists or if you think he willnot be back next year I E ask for a trade
2. trade Pinelil and see if youban get a 16 year old and some picks.
3. release MacK not my first choice to do would rather trde Stonehouse BUT we can not carry 3 goalies all year like we are. Now that Conway has had his cherry busted he needs to get in games where he actually has a chance. If for nothing more that the give him back some of the confidence that he lost (again @frontsfan67) will explain if you need it
4. They need to have a long sit down with DC and ensure that he is willing to go with the young guys and develop them properly. If not the ownership needs to step in.
beastintheeast
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London knights are what the 67's used to be under kILLER. They have system of development that works year in and year out. They draft the right players(hright and skills) they develop them mostly in the JrB for awhile.
They have a system tht develops the players into better players that are NHL or Pro material. Parents know this agents know this and scouts especially know this.
A lot of old timers will remember that up until the late 90's Ottawa was the team that people watched and wanted their kids to play on. Kiiler's prctices were brutal and skill development was top of the list.
If Andre had of stayed or had time to develop asystem that the assistants he left behind could follow we might be there.
@OMG67 hit the nail on the head. We need to find a CCHL team that we can partner with that has a coach that develops and is willing to develop our draft picks. Play them there for a year let them learn about older guys that are bigger and stronger. Then bring them up as your 3rd or 4th line govomng them the minuts on ice.
Frankly If I was the owner I would be looking for and or buying one of the assistants in London as my head coach.
They have a system tht develops the players into better players that are NHL or Pro material. Parents know this agents know this and scouts especially know this.
A lot of old timers will remember that up until the late 90's Ottawa was the team that people watched and wanted their kids to play on. Kiiler's prctices were brutal and skill development was top of the list.
If Andre had of stayed or had time to develop asystem that the assistants he left behind could follow we might be there.
@OMG67 hit the nail on the head. We need to find a CCHL team that we can partner with that has a coach that develops and is willing to develop our draft picks. Play them there for a year let them learn about older guys that are bigger and stronger. Then bring them up as your 3rd or 4th line govomng them the minuts on ice.
Frankly If I was the owner I would be looking for and or buying one of the assistants in London as my head coach.
OMG67
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Conway is not the #3. Conway is the signed BUG. It prevents us from having to rotate in Back up goalies like we did last year. There is no intention of him being anything other than the designated #3 goalie. That may change in the future but as of now, he has done nothing either in the OHL or prior to the OHL that suggests otherwise.
If MAcK is traded/released, they will go and get an acceptable experienced backup. PErsonally, I am with you. Trade Stonehouse. Keep MacK. But, if they trade Pinelli, keeping the forward may make more sense. IT is not like Nelson has been consistently poor. He’s been solid for a young rookie and I won’t’ write off his season based on this one game.
Fastpace
The Devil's Advocate in Person
It's a 20 men team game, and that includes your least skilled players, all rookies, top players and everything in between. They lose together, and they win together, only the team is at fault or has the credit for wins. Each member on this team have a role to play, do it well, they win, fail, they lose. You just don't go bringing up a rookie player into a social media page and publically point him out as the player to blame for a 20-man team loss. Use a private page and invite your friends to the discussion, publically embarrassing a player in public for him to read it all, can be very dangerous. (In my humble opinion)
beastintheeast
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beastintheeast
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beastintheeast
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I think you need to reread what I wrote
Especially the line
You cannot blame Nelson for the game.
As to it being a 20 man game to a point I agree but there are also times that you kow that you are going against a powerhouse and the older experienced players have to step up their game. You can not leave it up to the rookies.
Mews Marelli and Mayich should be playing their best games yu can not depend on Esh a small rookie D to be the top player. Players like O Reilly and others on a Londn team are going to eat him alive.
My point was simple this should prove that there is little chance of us being a powerhouse team this year or anything other than a build therefore there is little or no reason that we would be buyers in this market.
OMG67
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@beastintheeast that is accurate. A designated BUG can only play in case of injury. In our case, we have Conway which allows us more flexibility; however, he is still the designated BUG. His primary purpose is to be the designated BUG. If we had MacK plus two other OA’s, Conway wouldn’t be with the team. I’m not sure he would be signed. Maybe he would as a safety net like he is now but the reality is he is not thought of as part of the actual roster. If he were thought of as part of the roster, they’d find ways to play him.
Teams do not go with two 17 year old goalies in the OHL as starter & backup. They may have a 17 year old as the #3 as a safety net. Many teams do it. That goalie may get into a few games based on necessity but generally speaking, that guy doesn’t play. Betts is a 16 year old 2nd round pick. He is viewed as their potential starter of the future in Kingston. He will get into games this year because his status with the club is as such that they are making best efforts to develop him. This s no different than Nelson last year.
Conway is here ONLY because of the OA shuffle. As soon as there is no OA shuffle, he will be gone. Whether he returns at a later date likely has to do with whether there is an injury and/or further into the future if he continues to develop into an OHL goalie. But, for this year, his role is defined. He is the BUG. He’ll play if there is an injury to the starter or the starter lets in 4 goals in 6 shots….
This has been a rebuild year without question for me. I can understand why some others wouldn’t agree but I think things are starting to fall into place now. Other teams are starting to ramp up and Ottawa is lagging behind. The separation is starting to show in the standings. The lack of experience is also showing. It is now more a matter of what Boyd will do.
Teams do not go with two 17 year old goalies in the OHL as starter & backup. They may have a 17 year old as the #3 as a safety net. Many teams do it. That goalie may get into a few games based on necessity but generally speaking, that guy doesn’t play. Betts is a 16 year old 2nd round pick. He is viewed as their potential starter of the future in Kingston. He will get into games this year because his status with the club is as such that they are making best efforts to develop him. This s no different than Nelson last year.
Conway is here ONLY because of the OA shuffle. As soon as there is no OA shuffle, he will be gone. Whether he returns at a later date likely has to do with whether there is an injury and/or further into the future if he continues to develop into an OHL goalie. But, for this year, his role is defined. He is the BUG. He’ll play if there is an injury to the starter or the starter lets in 4 goals in 6 shots….
This has been a rebuild year without question for me. I can understand why some others wouldn’t agree but I think things are starting to fall into place now. Other teams are starting to ramp up and Ottawa is lagging behind. The separation is starting to show in the standings. The lack of experience is also showing. It is now more a matter of what Boyd will do.
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Nope I started following the 67's in 99. Kind of glad I missed those years although the two years in Kanata were not rosy.
OMG67
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Sorry, FP, but I disagree. This isn’t about laying blame. It is about providing post game review. Nelson played his worst game of the season IMO. The first three goals were horrid. If you were to ask him, he’d tell you the exact same thing. He played relatively well when he got back into the net so there is a bit of a silver lining there. Overall he’s been a really good 17 year old goalie. So, this is likely just part of the learning process. He’ll bounce back.
The one thing I can say for certain is, these kids aren’t fragile. If they were fragile, they would never have made it to this level. They can take criticism. In fact, criticism is a really important part of growth and development. Being about to handle criticism in the face of adversity builds character. I am not suggesting that any criticism on here qualifies because I highly doubt many of the players are on here taking anything to heart. If they are then they will likely hear a lot of the same things here that they hear at home and from the team. I imagine there is a consistent thread in that regard.
With respect to who is to blame, well, there is enough of that to go around yesterday. There is a common thread running though this team and the lack of discipline and poor penalty killing has destroyed this team. Now, I point to lack of discipline as lack of maintaining position on the opposition. We see a lot of stick fouls because the players lose position. That is because they are a relatively young team.
Ottawa is running with a 61% PK. That is awful. An average team in the OHL runs around 80%. Brantford and Ottawa are similar with respect to the number of PK chances and the BullDogs are right on that 80% mark. That translates into a 16 goal against differential. Over 24 games, that is a lot. From my perspective, that has been the difference between being about average and fighting for a playoff spot.
IMO, the PK has a lot to do with overall experience, especially on defence. Mews has played a lot on the PK. He isn’t really strong at net front coverage. That hurts. But, a lot of that has to do with the fact he was a converted forward that isn’t used to the difference in separation required net front. I’m not blaming Mews, just an example.
This team, in general, needs to gain more experience. It will come. They are young and rebuilding now. It is part of the gig.
Well you cannot tell me the goaltending was adequate in this game. At one point in the game London had 14 shots and 8 of them were goals. I do not recall ever seeing something like that prior to yesterday.
The whole team has to take some of the responsibility but you cannot expect to do much when over half of the shots end up in your net.
They get rid of Mack we better find an experienced backup to fill in when needed and provide advice as required.
As for JB, he will add, subtract or do whatever to the team regardless of what we think.
It may not comply with our personal choice, agree with everyone's opinion but he is what he is.
Need to do a complete turnaround on Wednesday.
The whole team has to take some of the responsibility but you cannot expect to do much when over half of the shots end up in your net.
They get rid of Mack we better find an experienced backup to fill in when needed and provide advice as required.
As for JB, he will add, subtract or do whatever to the team regardless of what we think.
It may not comply with our personal choice, agree with everyone's opinion but he is what he is.
Need to do a complete turnaround on Wednesday.
Fastpace
The Devil's Advocate in Person
If I or you were to ask the team, they'd all say they were awful, leaving Nelson out in the cold, not saying he had a great game, just that he played on par with the team in front of him.
OMG67
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Sorry but I disagree. The team may have played poorly in certain situations. However, if we simply look at 5 on 5 play overall, the game wasn’t out of hand to match the score. Five PP Goals and a Penalty Shot goal. You take those away and it is a 4-3 game which likely is about how the game played out 5 on 5. The first period was even except on the scoreboard.
The reality is sometimes you get a stinker game fromt he goalie. Sometimes we benefit from it the other way where the opposition goaltending is weak. It happens both ways. The reality is if you get a very bad goaltending performance, you aren’t going to win games. It happens.
I think this is fair and accurate. At even strength I thought we played pretty well, and it was positive to see that against a squad as strong as London’s. We didn’t deserve to win but 4-3 is a reasonable/expected outcome given the play at 5 on 5.
Fastpace
The Devil's Advocate in Person
Okay, to agree to disagree! With stinkers and all, he is still a member of the Ottawa 67's hockey club, I am watching the replay of the full game right now, presently in the 6th minute of the second. It's hard to watch how Ottawa allowed London players to come in the zone without being challenged, and other times you see them sitting on their goalie's laps. Within the first period alone, review London goals, at the moment of each goal going in, freeze all shots, count and check all Ottawa defenders positions, then see if they have done their jobs properly. Yes, Nelson could have stopped the first goal, but see how two Ds were skating alongside without challenging Nurmi.
OMG67
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To me, it was the first three goals. IMO, all were weak. The first goal was terrible. A wrister from the top of the circle without any traffic should never go in. The job of the defender is to keep the player to the outside and either force them behind the net or to make the easy save shot. I think the defence played that properly.
The 2nd goal was a 2 on 1 where the D-Man neglected to cut off the pass. Nelson way overcommitted early. Dickenson was so far away from the net when he made his first move. Nelson pulled himself out of the play. You could see that when Dickenson pounded him into the corner because he was so far out of his crease. Had he stayed calm in place, it is unlikely Dickenson would have had the space to cut into the net. It would likely have been an easy shot/save.
The 3rd goal was a weak backhand from 15 feet. No real traffic.
I’m not going to fault him on the penalty shot or the two PK goals. I can ignore those ones.
It really was the first three goals. If he saves those first three as he normally would, it is likely 1-0 to end the 1st. Conway isn’t in the net giving up four more. Maybe the game goes a little different. Maybe not. but the reality remains that the first three goals are goals that every OHL goalie would want back 100% of the time.
That 2nd goal showed he was unsettled. In his first few starts we saw him float out of the crease a lot. His movement was scattered and he moved way too much. As the season has progressed, his movement has gotten much more calm. He hasn’t been floating out of position or making forced and jerky movements. Yesterday? He did. I think he was nervous. He wasn’t’ the same goalie we’ve seen over the last month or so.
He is 17 years old. He will be prone to nerves in the bigger games. Overcoming that is part of his development. He will learn from it and gain experience. He will be better from it. This is why it is tough having a 17 year old starter. This is why I’ve suggested it is better for his development if MacK were to remain an OA. Arguably, it may be better for the team to have the extra forward and give Nelson the tet but I don’t think that is best for Nelson. I think having the experienced goalie for Nelson to lean on when necessary is important for him. If we were to move MacK, I think it would be important to bring in a solid 19 year old to back him up. He needs someone to lean on where he doesn’t feel like he’s the guy with no one there to bail him out when he needs it.
