Toggle sidebar

Proposal: OTT-TOR (Blockbuster)

Halla

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
while karlsson is more valuable than Matthews (right now), the difference isnt even close to being Rielly.

also in this scenario we lose methot/carrick to vegas . terrible
 
Leafs87

Leafs87

Mr. Steal Your Job
Aug 10, 2010
15,200
5,333
Toronto
Karlsson is great. But when he's your number one you have a massive problem. You need to pair him with a really good defensive or two way guy to cover his defensive limitations
 
Halla

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
Sureves said:
80 points as a center will not result in Matthews being "top of his position" so your question is loaded.

McDavid is going to be getting 100 points, and 80 points as a forward would have him surrounded by a bunch of guys (10) with around that many points. I'm not even convinced Matthews is going to be an 80 point player anyways, but just in this hypothetical scenario I'm accepting of that.

Matthews is not going to be close to a good as Karlsson is. Obviously it COULD happen, but the chances are remote.

I think that's the point that is being glossed over/implicitly refuted in this thread.

Even if Matthews is an 80 point player with elite defensive play (which I think Leaf fan should be ecstatic about if he gets there) he's still not going to be close to as good as Karlsson. He'll be like Kopitar: a fantastic hockey player in every way but not Karlsson.

Now, if you're trying to tell me he's going to be a 90+ point player with elite defensive play, then my position changes because that WOULD put him at Karlsson's level.But I think there's a remote possibility of that happening, and I think THAT is the issue in this thread: not contract status or how many replacement centers the Leafs have.

And this isn't just me being a blind or biased homer here. Here is a thread from 4 months ago discussing this very subject of who has the most value league-wide, considering everything:



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2107013&highlight=the+top+most+valuable+nhl+assets
Click to expand...

you are trying way too hard to defend your terrible offer.

also 80pt 2 way center still isnt close to Karlsson?
know how many C did that last year? 2. Crosby and Thornton

Matthews is on pace for 66 pts as a rookie C. last rookie C to top that? Malkin.

time to lock this one up
 
MR4

MR4

Registered User
Oct 20, 2014
6,270
2,253
Let's try to put it into baseball terms using WAR (added wins from the player compared to a replacement level player)

Under the OP's belief that Matthews will only ever reach the tier below Karlsson, lets say that prime Karlsson gives 8 WAR, while prime Matthews will give 7 WAR.

So then in the next 3 seasons, Karlsson provides
2016-2017: 8 WAR
2017-2018: 8 WAR
2018-2019: 8 WAR

For a net sum of 24 wins added over the length of his contract

Now lets say Matthews is currently a 3 WAR player with low estimate for progression

2016-2017: 3 WAR
2017-2018: 3 WAR
2018-2019: 4 WAR
2019-2020: 5 WAR
2020-2021: 6 WAR
2021-2022: 6 WAR
2022-2023: 7 WAR

For a net sum of 34 WAR.

Because the Leafs definitely won't be strong Cup contenders in the next 2 years even with Karlsson added, that essentially nullifies WAR from the 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 seasons, so during contending years we would receive a guaranteed 8 WAR total from Karlsson and a guaranteed 28 WAR from Matthews. Shows you it makes no sense for us to make this swap at this point of our rebuild.

And then to add in Rielly for Methot as well?

Leafs87 said:
Karlsson is great. But when he's your number one you have a massive problem. You need to pair him with a really good defensive or two way guy to cover his defensive limitations
Click to expand...

Please delete this. :laugh:
 
Mats13

Mats13

Registered User
Apr 22, 2015
6,429
5,639
giphy.gif


Why don't you just ask for Marner for Stone while you're at it? Ridiculously stupid.
 
Kudo Shinichi

Kudo Shinichi

Registered User
Apr 20, 2012
21,227
28,188
drDT said:
Matthews should have more value than Karlsson and Reilly has way more value than Methot.
Click to expand...

In what world does Matthews have more value than Karlsson?
There's only a few players worth more than Karlsson, and Matthews certainly is not among them.
 

BurgoShark

Registered User
Jul 1, 2004
3,640
692
Gold Coast
OP isn't far off. If Ottawa were serious about trading Karlsson 1 year before UFA and the target team were re-signing him for 8 years, he is one of few players for whom it would be worth trading the first overall pick. This is regardless of whether it's Toronto/Matthews or anyone else.

I guess is comes down to whether you would prefer a 27 year old established top 10 player in the NHL, or an 18/19 year old player with the potential to do the same... and that will come down to where your team is in its own win/compete/build/rebuild cycle.
 
CHaracter79

CHaracter79

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
2,443
136
IF you want somethign more fair it would be

Karlsson for matthews+ small plus (gardiner ?)

or

Karlson for Nylander + Riley

you having the idea out there that EK may not sign or ott have the ability to sign.. lowers his value a tad.


and this trade would have to happen now or next few months.

in 2 years....

Matthews maybe >>>>>>> EK
 
Randy Randerson

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,446
Hamilton
CHaracter79 said:
IF you want somethign more fair it would be

Karlsson for matthews+ small plus (gardiner ?)

or

Karlson for Nylander + Riley

you having the idea out there that EK may not sign or ott have the ability to sign.. lowers his value a tad.


and this trade would have to happen now or next few months.

in 2 years....

Matthews maybe >>>>>>> EK
Click to expand...

Doesn't make any sense for the leafs at all even if it was 1 for 1. Getting Karlsson at 26 with a $7m cap hit and 3 more years of controllability vs. Matthews at $925k cap hit with 7 more years of controllability is a step in the wrong direction.

We don't have another franchise centreman in waiting, Nylander might be #1 worthy but there's a chance that he ends up as a winger, we do have another guy who could be (is currently playing like) a #1 dman in Rielly.

This creates more problems than it solves, and adding another good roster piece, especially if it's Rielly just compounds the problem

We'll stick with our drafted face of the franchise, Ottawa should do the same
 
Atomos2

Atomos2

Registered User
Jun 28, 2012
16,536
2,777
Toronto, Ontario
KawaYui said:
In what world does Matthews have more value than Karlsson?
There's only a few players worth more than Karlsson, and Matthews certainly is not among them.
Click to expand...

A big elite franchise centre #1 overall prospect on the start of an entry level contract to a rebuilding team is worth more to them than 3 years of a generational 1-dimensional offensive defenceman with cup aspirations in the near future. You'd have to be extremely short-sided to see any type of profit for the Leafs in this scenario.
 
Willy Stylez

Willy Stylez

Wiff
Mar 14, 2015
3,721
653
Atomos2 said:
A big elite franchise centre #1 overall prospect on the start of an entry level contract to a rebuilding team is worth more to them than 3 years of a generational 1-dimensional offensive defenceman with cup aspirations in the near future. You'd have to be extremely short-sided to see any type of profit for the Leafs in this scenario.
Click to expand...

Edit
 
Willy Stylez

Willy Stylez

Wiff
Mar 14, 2015
3,721
653
Atomos2 said:
A big elite franchise centre #1 overall prospect on the start of an entry level contract to a rebuilding team is worth more to them than 3 years of a generational 1-dimensional offensive defenceman with cup aspirations in the near future. You'd have to be extremely short-sided to see any type of profit for the Leafs in this scenario.
Click to expand...

Karlsson >>>> * 2 Matthews.
Missing.. AINEC?

And yes, Matthews is awesome and has sick potential. But Karlsson, so easily.
 

Rhaegar Targaryen

Registered User
Jun 25, 2016
6,375
4,204
I wouldn't do this from a Sens POV

Karlsson is a generational talent, something I think Matthews will never reach (he'll be great, but not generational, IMO)

I'm not sold at all on Rielly. Never saw great things in him.
 
rhinoshawarma

rhinoshawarma

Registered User
Nov 15, 2014
2,622
314
drDT said:
Matthews should have more value than Karlsson and Reilly has way more value than Methot.
Click to expand...

Not even close however Leafs have no reason to do this. Let them rebuild and progress, this makes no sense for the Leafs.

Sens also don't touch this
 

loyaltotheend

Registered User
May 5, 2016
1,254
411
St. John's
Rhaegar Targaryen said:
I wouldn't do this from a Sens POV

Karlsson is a generational talent, something I think Matthews will never reach (he'll be great, but not generational, IMO)

I'm not sold at all on Rielly. Never saw great things in him.
Click to expand...

Curious if you still feel that way given the condition in the OP that EK doesn't resign?
I wouldn't do it as a leafs fan, but do you value 2 more years with your 1D higher than a 1C on ELC?
(Before anyone jumps on me for saying Matthews is 1C, I'm just going with the assessment I quoted of a step down from generational)
 
BAM

BAM

Registered User
Nov 21, 2016
4,048
2,299
If Karlsson wants to come to the Leafs he can wait till FA...No chance in hell that Toronto moves Matthews and Rielly for him...I wouldn't move those two for any single player in the NHL.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom
X