Proposal: OTT sends Brady Tkachuk, Shane Pinto to NYI for Matthew Barzal, Noah Dobson

[Bjornar Moxnes]

That's fine but the value....I mean, Shane Pinto? He's worth, what, the same as every other 20 goal scorer that's overpaid in the NHL?

Dobson may be one-way but he's top 10 in D-scoring the past three years....I'm sure a bunch of teams would love that ability if all they have to give up is a replaceable possible 20 goal forward.

In what way is Pinto even remotely overpaid?

Side note : rather keep Greig over Pinto, right? If it came down to it

Not even remotely. RHS C that's super smart over LHS C that's fast and a pest but not particularly high in IQ any day.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Every fan thinks they can steal Brady. Guy is a unicorn and may be as good as his brother. The intangibles are massive on him. You have to overpay, this isn't close. The only reason for Ottawa to trade him is he has only three years left on his deal and could easily bolt to Florida. Ottawa is likely to roll the dice on more years at least to see how good they are in. They could trade Brady with two years on contract and still fetch a ransom.

The value is fair, but the Sens add more of what they already have and lose of what they won't be able to adequately replace.

The value isn't obvious with Tkachuk boys. Players like that are more than their stats.

 

[doublechili]

As an Isles fan the thing that would concern me most about the proposed trade is that you're giving up 2 guys who are (or can be) under your control for years, and the biggest asset coming back could be gone after 3 years (2 years, really, if he forces a trade). Love the player, but no thanks. Not worth the gamble, or the agita.

[saw the post above after posting - not really sure a team can get a ransom for him in a year or two if everyone knows he wants to be in FLA]

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

In what way is Pinto even remotely overpaid?

True. There's just as many players above his AAV that have the same production as there are players below his AAV with the same production. He's pretty much in the middle of the middle.

 

[HuGort]

Off season trade,

Who wins this ?

Ottawa be crazy to do that. They could get the moon for Tkachuk.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Ottawa be crazy to do that. They could get the moon for Tkachuk.

Not sure about that, his NMC kicks in July 1 I think.

 

[Boud]

Not sure about that, his NMC kicks in July 1 I think.

I believe we are before July 1st.

 

[Barsky]

I'm higher on Dobson than most and lower on Tkachuk on most and this is still NYI AINEC. Do the sens really want two injury prone players taking up 17million cap space?

Since when is Brady injury prone? Pinto and Norris for sure, but not Brady, not remotely

 

[Barsky]

Until they realize they get stuck in Canada.

Based on their birth certificates Idk they would hate that as much as you seem to think

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Since when is Brady injury prone? Pinto and Norris for sure, but not Brady, not remotely

Barzal is injury prone...

 

[Barsky]

Barzal is injury prone...

Ah, gotcha, agreed, but compared to Norris, who's spot he'd take ideally, he's rock solid. In that case it's Dobson who isn't really injury prone

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Until they realize they get stuck in Canada.

...as Canadians, they probably don't mind...ever been??...or just sour for sour's sake??...

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

I believe we are before July 1st.

We are but does the NMC carry to the next team? If Yes, that's a negative for the buyer, not a positive, that's what I was getting at.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Brady's hype is getting out of hands... NYI is getting bent.

 

[Kegs]

32 ppl said Ottawa wins hahahhaah. Amazing stuff.

 

[Glorydays22]

32 ppl said Ottawa wins hahahhaah. Amazing stuff.

110 say NY wins...priceless..

 

[TkachukNorris79]

NY wins based off injury history alone, and the fact that they're getting the best player in the deal and the biggest difference maker.

As for Dobson, Ottawa already has Sanderson and Chabot who have both been much better defensively and have better or similar offensive numbers than Dobson this year. We also have Yakemchuk who's a very offensive-minded RHD who almost made our team this year.

I think Dobson bounces back next year but don't really see how this trade makes Ottawa better in any way, both short-term and long.

True. There's just as many players above his AAV that have the same production as there are players below his AAV with the same production. He's pretty much in the middle of the middle.

Don't think many of them are used to matchup and shutdown the opposition's top line at 24. I get what you're saying but Pinto is still developing. Missed so much time with the shoulder injury 3 years ago and then the silly gambling suspension, plus he started taking hockey seriously like 7-8 years ago.

Ottawa's numbers with Pinto in vs out of the lineup are crazy, he's so underrated by people who don't watch Ottawa much, and I'm fine with that.

People will laugh but he's gonna be Bergeron-lite in this league for the next 10-15 years, whether in Ottawa or elsewhere.

 

[impaaaaaact]

This trade doesn't make any sense, nor is the value close. Ottawa stays far away from 2 injury prone players.

I'm higher on Dobson than most and lower on Tkachuk on most and this is still NYI AINEC. Do the sens really want two injury prone players taking up 17million cap space?

Not factoring injury concerns, Tkachuk >> Barzal. Dobson is better than Pinto for sure, but Pinto is more of a need for Ottawa at the moment.

Calling Barzal injury prone is a stretch. By the end of this season he'll have missed about 1 season's worth of time in 8 seasons, and half of those games will be from fracturing his leg blocking a shot. I think that's called being a professional hockey player.

Calling Dobson injury prone is insanity. He's missed like maybe 15-20 games due to injury in 6 seasons. He was healthy scratched a few times his first two seasons - those were also covid seasons so the GP might look low if you ignore the context.

Fun fact, Shane Pinto missed more games due to suspension last season alone than Barzal had missed due to injury in his entire career up to this season. Is Pinto "suspension prone"? All of this is a big non factor.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Tkachuk=Barzal or maybe Tkachuk>Barzal but not by much.
Dobson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pinto

I am obviously going by value as I admit to not knowing Ottawa's needs.

This. I would add a bit to Barzal for Tkachuk, probably, although one team is getting a player under control for 7 years and the other is getting one for 3 who may want to leave at the end.

But I mean we just saw the Seth Jones trade. Dobson is the same size, same handedness, 5 years younger, will be in the same AAV range, and his average point totals are about Jones' career highs. What do we think his value is in a trade to Ottawa with Pinto as part of the deal (agnostic of team needs)? Something like Pinto, 2 firsts and another small add sound about right?

So basically at that point if you're saying NYI wins this trade you're saying Tkachuk is worth more than Barzal + 2 firsts +. That just seems blatantly wrong to me. From a pure trade value standpoint, the Isles are getting hosed here.

 

[GCK]

Considering age and positional needs going forward, Dobson is the only player I’d want in Ottawa but he’s about to get paid. I’d let someone else give him the 9M extension.

 

[Kegs]

People out here doing algerbra trying to prove this is a good deal for ott.

 

[impaaaaaact]

People out here doing algerbra trying to prove this is a good deal for ott.

I mean it's completely conceivable that Noah Dobson (big RHD who is an RFA and one year removed from a 70 point season) gets more on the open market than Tkachuk (winger who averages 65 per 82 for his career whose contract is up in 3 seasons). Probably should be comparing Barzal and Pinto's value to be completely honest (which is also in NYI's favor).

 

[LeapOnOver]

Hopefully that means we can stop hearing from Islanders fans wanting Pinto.

Pretty sure you've already stopped hearing that....you are just living in the past.

 

[islesfan3913]

Am I going crazy? Where is this “Dobson and Barzal are injury prone” narrative coming from? This season was the first time Dobson has missed any extended period in his career and it’s only the second time Barzal has been hurt for an extended period in his eight year career. That’s a far cry from being “injury prone.” I have to imagine those making that claim are looking at the limited games in the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons and forgetting those were shorted seasons.

As for the value, I think people are letting Brady’s 4 Nations performance give them rose tinted glasses. I personally love him and think he’s a great player who I would love to have on my team, but him and Barzal, while different players, are extremely close in terms of production and value and their numbers over their careers show that. Brady being the better scorer and playing a physical game does carry weight and I do agree he’s probably a bit more valuable, but the difference between him and Barzal is nowhere close to the difference between Dobson and Pinto. That gap puts this in favor of Ottawa IMO, although I do understand Sens fans not wanting to trade Brady.

 

[Coffee]

Am I going crazy? Where is this “Dobson and Barzal are injury prone” narrative coming from? This season was the first time Dobson has missed any extended period in his career and it’s only the second time Barzal has been hurt for an extended period in his eight year career. That’s a far cry from being “injury prone.” I have to imagine those making that claim are looking at the limited games in the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons and forgetting those were shorted seasons.

It’s a little bit of both