OT: Other Sports: Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies etc…Part VII

[famicommander]

I'm just not finding that many good QBs have a good first couple starts as a rookie. Not uncommon for them to sit for their first season.

You are conflating Bo Nix's historically, catastrophically terrible performances with normal rookie struggles. That is your first mistake. Again, nobody has sucked this badly through two starts at throwing the ball downfield since we've had the technology to track players along these lines. This is quite literally breaking new grounds of suck.

Your second mistake is not understanding that the struggles he's having are of exactly the type that people who suggested he didn't have NFL talent were saying all along. Bo Nix is doing exactly what the people who thought he wasn't going to be good enough would do in the NFL, and for the reasons those people suggested.

You don't just put all struggling quarterbacks in the same basket. Different quarterbacks are struggling for different reasons and each of them has their own individual sets of obstacles to overcome. If a guy is going out there and playing poorly because he lacks maturity or a mental understanding of the game those are things that can be corrected with teaching and experience. If a guy is going out there and showing you that he doesn't have enough talent, no amount of waiting is going to change the physical reality of that situation. Especially when he's already old for a rookie.

 

[Bonzai12]

lol I can’t believe people are writing off a first round QB after two starts……just unreal…..

Got terrible news for you - next years QB crop is the definition of suck. The grass ain’t gonna be greener.

 

[Hasbro]

You are conflating Bo Nix's historically, catastrophically terrible performances with normal rookie struggles.

I've seen worse first starts.

 

[famicommander]

I've seen worse first starts.

Not in terms of throwing the ball farther than 5 yards downfield. Because through two games nobody they've tracked has done it as poorly as Bo Nix has. Nobody. And that's not just guys making their first two starts, that's all QBs of any experience level through two regular season games in the last ten years.

Literally nobody has sucked as badly as Bo Nix has sucked at downfield passing since the metrics to measure that statistic were invented.

lol I can’t believe people are writing off a first round QB after two starts……just unreal…..

Got terrible news for you - next years QB crop is the definition of suck. The grass ain’t gonna be greener.

Guess what?

Next year's crop of quarterbacks has literally nothing in the world at all to do with how Bo Nix has played so far. Whether next season has 50 JaMarcus Russells or it has 50 John Elways is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not Bo Nix will ever have NFL talent.

He.
Does.
Not.
Have.
NFL.
Arm.
Talent.

That's why his downfield passing is poor to a degree that had previously not been statistically measured.

 

[henchman21]

lol I can’t believe people are writing off a first round QB after two starts……just unreal…..

Got terrible news for you - next years QB crop is the definition of suck. The grass ain’t gonna be greener.

I’m not a Broncos fan so I hope they keep rolling out Nix for the lolz. He’s had a really bad couple of starts. So bad that if he wasn’t a first round pick, he wouldn’t see the light of day for the rest of the season.

I do get the hope springs eternal thought though. It’s what keeps fans interested. Reminds me of the Jost debates back in the day. He’s such a harder worker and had great junior stats! ROR 2.0!

 

[lionsDen]

Brees’ first game he had a TD pass. Here to help.

And from what I remember he messed up his shoulder in a game in Denver.

 

[MonsterMack]

I'll always love the, "I know better than you kiddo, but you can keep your hopes up" type response to anyone that isn't immediately negative or has the audacity to have a shred of hope, or even a let's wait and see mindset.

 

[henchman21]

And from what I remember he messed up his shoulder in a game in Denver.

That was after his breakout and near the end of his Chargers tenure. Brees didn’t look amazing in his first year as a starter, but he never looked like this in consecutive weeks. Not even in his first starts. He took off in year 3.

Plenty of guys have hand bad starts before. Which is why you look for flashes. Nix needs to show those. Not be abysmal at anything slightly beyond the line of scrimmage. I’m sure he will have some good games if he starts long enough, nearly every QB with a good amount of starts does (even Gino Smith!). One or a few won’t do.

 

[famicommander]

I'll always love the, "I know better than you kiddo, but you can keep your hopes up" type response to anyone that isn't immediately negative or has the audacity to have a shred of hope, or even a let's wait and see mindset.

Notice how you criticized your opposition for doing the literal thing that you did in your post? You didn't come in here with examples of what Bo Nix is doing on the field that you see which leads you to believe he can or will have better results in the future. Instead you've dismissed out of hand the examples that other people brought of things Bo Nix is doing on the football field which leads them to believe he can't or won't show substantial, consistent improvement.

He is slightly below average as far as size for a starting NFL quarterback in 2024, which is certainly not a death sentence on its own. And he's older than most other rookie quarterbacks, so he has less physical development in front of him (and most guys are already close to being fully developed by the time they are drafted anyway) and he is expected to be farther along than most on the mental side. But the biggest issue is his arm talent, and we're seeing it manifest itself in his putrid downfield passing accuracy. He is either overthrowing or underthrowing guys by a lot. He is leaving throws short or missing them late because his arm is poor, then he's trying to compensate for his lack of arm talent by screwing up his footwork trying to muscle the ball downfield.

Essentially, you're mad that critics have noticed things happening which reinforce their viewpoint. And because you can't identify anything happening which reinforces your own viewpoint, you choose to simply attack the people who contend the opposite. Whether or not you agree with my contention that a combination of his relative lack of arm talent and size and his relatively advanced age and maturity are reasons that he is unilkely to show substantial improvement over time, those are contentions that exist. Critics including but not limited to myself have observed these things then tried to grapple with what they mean.

The best that his supporters have been able to muster is that some percentage of other players who had played poorly at other points in time eventually became better than they were. But the obvious thing you're overlooking is that most of the people who played that poorly just sucked, and they never at any point stopped sucking. They just sucked until they stopped being put into games.

So if your contention is that Nix will or can become one of those rare few who turn it around, you have to have some kind of reasoning as to why that will be the case. Something about Bo which indicates to you that he has the positive attributes that he will require to eventually improve. I don't want to hear that Drew Brees became better in his prime than he was prior to that point in time. I want to know what it is about Drew Brees that allowed him to do that, and what qualities you see in Nix which he shares in common and lends credibility to your contention that he can do the same.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Just for shits and giggles...would anyone take a prime Tebow back?

 

[Bender]

This thread is kinda funny. You have a few people who just couldn't wait to dump all over Bo Nix even after his first NFL game just so they can get on their horse to say "see, I was right all along".

It's almost as if that IF Nix isn't a generational talent - he needs to get the f*** out of here??

Speaking of 'generational talent' - Caleb Williams is finding out playing in the NFL isn't easy. He's on a crap team too albeit with WAYYYYYY better weapons (Odunze, Moore, Cmet)... what's his excuse? Bad arm? Bad feet? Bad Brain?

Not sure why it's apparently a slam-dunk that Nix is going to bust after 2 games when there are specific examples throughout the league of QBs that were given up on by their original teams only to find success playing with GOOD teams. Baker Mayfield got the hell out of Cleveland and now seems to be doing very well. He may not a generational player but he's giving his team a chance to win. Sam Darnold was a big, big shithead apparently and now he's 2-0 playing on a GOOD TEAM. (hmmm maybe that's not a coincidence)

This whole discussion about who played well in their first few games vs who didn't is ridiculous. Way too many other questions need to be answered before you can just say 'yeah - see THIS guy was way better and able to do it'. What kind of run game was that team able to put on the field to give their rookie QB a better chance at success? How was the offensive line - good or terrible? What kind of weapons did that QB have to be able to move the ball down the field? Those are all actual factors that play a part in having a rookie QB be able to be successful. Some of it is certainly on the QB but NOT ALL OF IT as some people here would love to be able to make it seem.

@famicommander - it's very apparent to EVERYONE here that you had your torch and pitchfork ready the very second after the Broncos made the draft pick - and since you're absolutely unwilling to listen to anything anyone has to say - future discussion with you is pointless.

Personally, I'm more disappointed with the head coach than I am Bo Nix.

 

[HartKinnon]

How the f*** one can judge Bo’s arm because right now he hasn’t been able to settle down on that all around shitty offence? Playcalling takes way too much of a time right now which leaves Bo a little chance to get understanding of coverage and on top off that there isn’t any separation from the wr corp.

 

[Bonzai12]

2 games in and you’re not Ring of Fame quality yet? Do you even play QB bro?

 

[henchman21]

Just for shits and giggles...would anyone take a prime Tebow back?

Tebow had a prime?

 

[chet1926]

This thread is kinda funny. You have a few people who just couldn't wait to dump all over Bo Nix even after his first NFL game just so they can get on their horse to say "see, I was right all along".

It's almost as if that IF Nix isn't a generational talent - he needs to get the f*** out of here??

Speaking of 'generational talent' - Caleb Williams is finding out playing in the NFL isn't easy. He's on a crap team too albeit with WAYYYYYY better weapons (Odunze, Moore, Cmet)... what's his excuse? Bad arm? Bad feet? Bad Brain?

Not sure why it's apparently a slam-dunk that Nix is going to bust after 2 games when there are specific examples throughout the league of QBs that were given up on by their original teams only to find success playing with GOOD teams. Baker Mayfield got the hell out of Cleveland and now seems to be doing very well. He may not a generational player but he's giving his team a chance to win. Sam Darnold was a big, big shithead apparently and now he's 2-0 playing on a GOOD TEAM. (hmmm maybe that's not a coincidence)

This whole discussion about who played well in their first few games vs who didn't is ridiculous. Way too many other questions need to be answered before you can just say 'yeah - see THIS guy was way better and able to do it'. What kind of run game was that team able to put on the field to give their rookie QB a better chance at success? How was the offensive line - good or terrible? What kind of weapons did that QB have to be able to move the ball down the field? Those are all actual factors that play a part in having a rookie QB be able to be successful. Some of it is certainly on the QB but NOT ALL OF IT as some people here would love to be able to make it seem.

@famicommander - it's very apparent to EVERYONE here that you had your torch and pitchfork ready the very second after the Broncos made the draft pick - and since you're absolutely unwilling to listen to anything anyone has to say - future discussion with you is pointless.

Personally, I'm more disappointed with the head coach than I am Bo Nix.

Well said pretty much my thoughts on the topic. The hot takes coming from some of the posters is completely irrational and shows exactly what you pointed out which some people just hate player and wanted to shit on him day 1, to say I told you so.

Nix could have set all time positive rookie records in his first two games and some people would find ways to say he sucks.

Like your mentioned there are tons of factors going on with the Broncos some are Bo Nix related and good portion are not.

When shitting on Nix, people are ignoring the fact he has the worst o-line in football statistically speaking, his WR core is bottom 5 talent wise, the TEs are beyond bad can't catch or block, and RB room is a mess. Throw on top of it extremely bad coaching through 2 weeks and you get what has taken place. Couple that with having to play 2 teams that will more than likely end the season with top 10 defenses (Pittsburgh might end up number 1, their defense is loaded) and it's rough.

But at the end of the day it's 2 games. Writing off a player after 2 games is completely ridiculous and those who are simply don't like the player and just want to shit on him. Should the Bears give up on Williams? Based on expectations he's doing far worse than Nix with much more talent around him. No that would be insane.

 

[henchman21]

Here's what I don't get... evaluations are (or should be) just evaluations. They should not be viewed as a negative or positive view, framing in one light or another does a disservice to what something actually is. Evaluations shouldn't be spun, they should be a viewpoint based on the data available. Full stop.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert in football evaluations. I've watched plenty and seen what translates to success, but my opinion is not based on scouting, coaching or even playing at a high level. I got to JV and then focused on hockey. I see Nix and I don't see enough skills to be a good NFL QB. Maybe a backup or low end starter, but that'll likely be where he lands and probably on the next franchise. That is my pure amateur evaluation. Grain of salt that.

I see see this all over here though, and because we are a hockey forum, it clearly focuses on hockey. People will spin an evaluation on a player and frame it to being a hater or overly negative (or as a homer)... when it should just be. It should just exist. Evaluations shouldn't be a hype train or a hit piece it should simply be. If you are putting a positive or negative spin on it, then you're interjecting something that will keep from an accurate evaluation. I get as fans, we will interject those things, and that is totally fine... just don't expect it to be a neutral evaluation.

 

[The Moops]

I can't evaluate hockey player talent let alone a sport I don't watch, but Nix seems like he sucks based on watching all the posts in here

 

[Pokecheque]

Personally I don't see a franchise QB in Nix and if I'm wrong I'll be thrilled to admit as much. But I don't think I will be, unfortunately. Blast me if you want, I don't care.

What really irks me is that, right now, there just doesn't seem to be ANYTHING progressing. Nothing at all. This team actually looks worse to me than last year's apart from an improved pass rush and really good punt coverage. The coaching has actually gotten worse and might actually be the very worst thing about this team at present. For all they gave up to bring Payton in, it's very disappointing.

 

[5280]

Tebow had a prime?

Speaking of quarterbacks that couldn’t throw 10 yards

 

[henchman21]

Speaking of quarterbacks that couldn’t throw 10 yards

I feel like all of Tebow's completions were just deep throws where he actually Hailed Mary to complete them.

 

[avalanche_country]

McCarthy still tied for TDs with the rookie QBs at zero. None of them so far have been impressive.

Writing off a rookie QB after two games is insane. If he doesn’t continue to progress throughout the season then you can worry.

 

[5280]

I feel like all of Tebow's completions were just deep throws where he actually Hailed Mary to complete them.

I just remember him throwing complete ducks out there. I’ll give him that one pass he threw to DT to beat the Steelers in the playoffs, though. That was a thing of beauty

 

[henchman21]

I just remember him throwing complete ducks out there. I’ll give him that one pass he threw to DT to beat the Steelers in the playoffs, though. That was a thing of beauty

His mechanics were just terrible and showed how much of a talent gap there is from college to the pros at the position.

McCarthy still tied for TDs with the rookie QBs at zero. None of them so far have been impressive.

Writing off a rookie QB after two games is insane. If he doesn’t continue to progress throughout the season then you can worry.

Jayden Daniels, if he survives the physical toll, looks like he's going to be a very good QB. I would say he's been impressive and flashed a lot. He's just got to learn to pick his spots so he doesn't get annihilated.

 

[5280]

His mechanics were just terrible and showed how much of a talent gap there is from college to the pros at the position.


Jayden Daniels, if he survives the physical toll, looks like he's going to be a very good QB. I would say he's been impressive and flashed a lot. He's just got to learn to pick his spots so he doesn't get annihilated.

Also shows what works in college doesn’t always transfer to the NFL. Johnny Football is another good example.

I actually think Caleb Williams is going to be good eventually, too

 

[henchman21]

Also shows what works in college doesn’t always transfer to the NFL. Johnny Football is another good example.

I actually think Caleb Williams is going to be good eventually, too

Manziel was way too concerned with being a celebrity too and put in next to zero work at being a pro. In college he got by off pure talent, that doesn't work in the pros.

IMO if Williams fails, it will be the mental/off the field side of the equation. He has all the tools. Yeah you'd wish he was 6'3" instead of 6'1"... but that's really the only physical knock on him.