OT: Other Sports: Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies etc…Part VII

[Avs_19]

There are a lot of different ways to look at the QB position and team building and everyone is going to have their own opinion on the best path forward. For me personally, you don't take the 24 year old with limited physical traits and then start building around him after the fact while wasting the benefit of the rookie QB contract. Drafting that seemingly NFL ready player and then listing off all of the holes on the roster that may take multiple offseasons to fill are in conflict with each other. I completely agree with the points about Nix being surrounded with bad players and them needing to build up the roster but that's why I wouldn't have drafted him.

He's the type of prospect you drop into a situation where you're ready to compete with the hope of him being a game manager who doesn't **** it up. At least that's how I view him. Like a discount Kirk Cousins if all goes well. If others believe his upside his higher than that then we're definitely going to disagree on the approach. Still very early so we'll see!

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Not sure how you lot can stand the NFL product: Three plays, commercial, kick, commercial, kick return, commercial, play, minor injury, and commercial. What a disaster.

Not taking this from a K-Pop fanatic.

 

[Hasbro]

Exactly how long do we have to pretend we aren't seeing what we're seeing before it becomes okay to point it out?

A year!

Elway had 0.0 passer rating in his first game, didn't complete a TD pass until his third and lined up under guard before getting benched after 5 games.

Is Stidham going to carry this team to the playoffs? Even if he is better will sinking lower in the draft help this team? You don't think Nix has a chance at being good, So you don't want him benched to shetler him.

There are a lot of different ways to look at the QB position and team building and everyone is going to have their own opinion on the best path forward. For me personally, you don't take the 24 year old with limited physical traits and then start building around him after the fact while wasting the benefit of the rookie QB contract. Drafting that seemingly NFL ready player and then listing off all of the holes on the roster that may take multiple offseasons to fill are in conflict with each other. I completely agree with the points about Nix being surrounded with bad players and them needing to build up the roster but that's why I wouldn't have drafted him.

He's the type of prospect you drop into a situation where you're ready to compete with the hope of him being a game manager who doesn't **** it up. At least that's how I view him. Like a discount Kirk Cousins if all goes well. If others believe his upside his higher than that then we're definitely going to disagree on the approach. Still very early so we'll see!

So what's your plan at QB then?

 

[willy702]

There are a lot of different ways to look at the QB position and team building and everyone is going to have their own opinion on the best path forward. For me personally, you don't take the 24 year old with limited physical traits and then start building around him after the fact while wasting the benefit of the rookie QB contract. Drafting that seemingly NFL ready player and then listing off all of the holes on the roster that may take multiple offseasons to fill are in conflict with each other. I completely agree with the points about Nix being surrounded with bad players and them needing to build up the roster but that's why I wouldn't have drafted him.

He's the type of prospect you drop into a situation where you're ready to compete with the hope of him being a game manager who doesn't **** it up. At least that's how I view him. Like a discount Kirk Cousins if all goes well. If others believe his upside his higher than that then we're definitely going to disagree on the approach. Still very early so we'll see!

I agree with all this. I think the team sees him as more than a game manager but time will tell. In this day and age with the crazy media and fans, teams feel compelled to do less than optimal moves with QBs. I'd say a majority of these extensions are not going to prove to be a good value but imagine the blowback if a team refuses to do it. So even if the cheap contract QB isn't at the right time and place, its at least better than getting stuck with an extended guy again like Wilson.

 

[Hasbro]

Not sure how you lot can stand the NFL product: Three plays, commercial, kick, commercial, kick return, commercial, play, minor injury, and commercial. What a disaster.

Yeah I can watch the constant action of guys kicking a bal and jogging for a 0-0 tie.

 

[Hasbro]

I agree with all this. I think the team sees him as more than a game manager but time will tell. In this day and age with the crazy media and fans, teams feel compelled to do less than optimal moves with QBs.

The Broncos traded 2 1st for Steve Tensi. The Raiders drafted Jawalrus #1 overall. Tampa Bay traded Steve Young to make room for Vinny Testeverde.

It was ever thus.

 

[S E P H]

Not taking this from a K-Pop fanatic.

 

[willy702]

The Broncos traded 2 1st for Steve Tensi. The Raiders drafted Jawalrus #1 overall. Tampa Bay traded Steve Young to make room for Vinny Testeverde.

It was ever thus.

Those are draft picks. None of those guys got $285m guaranteed, nor $60m per year.

 

[chet1926]

Nah - Denver just has a bunch of fairweather fans and believe the success of the offense 100% solely depends on the QB. Our fanbase has the most inflated and unrealistic expectations out of the QB position of any teams in the league.

This x1000. For some reason Denver fans expect prime Manning the second a QB hits the the field. Developing a QB is a process 99 times out of 100.

Look at Josh Allen, widely regarded as top 5 in the league. Most forget he was absolute trash for 2 years and was a few bad starts in year 3 from hitting the bench.

And before people chime in with the physical tools bullshit, it means very little. Let's ask Tom Brady about "physical tools." He was a pretty unathletic, 6th round pick with a mid arm. Success isn't fully dependant on physical tools.

 

[famicommander]

A year!

Elway had 0.0 passer rating in his first game, didn't complete a TD pass until his third and lined up under guard before getting benched after 5 games.

Is Stidham going to carry this team to the playoffs? Even if he is better will sinking lower in the draft help this team? You don't think Nix has a chance at being good, So you don't want him benched to shetler him.


So what's your plan at QB then?

1. It's not 1983
2. Nobody, anywhere on planet earth, had a single question about John Elway's physical talent.

It's the most disingenuous comparison you could possibly make. John Elway was the slam dunk, consensus, generational all time talent. Everyone knew what his strengths and weaknesses were and there was every reason in the world to think that time, experience, and maturity would appreciably improve his level of play. After his first two games, when he hadn't thrown a TD pass yet? He was still the most coveted player in the league. Any coach in the NFL not named Dan Reeves would mail you the still-beating heart of his first born child to have "early Elway" kinds of problems to solve. Because in the face of any weaknesses, his strengths were obvious to even the dumbest observer and impossible to ignore.

Conversely, everyone knew coming in what Bo Nix was. That's why he was the sixth quarterback taken this year. He is much older and more experienced than not just Elway was for his time, but compared the overwhelming majority of all rookie quarterbacks ever. His physical talents are comparatively much more limited, which accounts for why he was drafted so late (both in terms of draft position and his chronological age). He has a considerably smaller margin for error than more talented guys.

Flat out, straight up, Nix doesn't have the physical tools and they don't come with more time. Especially not for a guy who is already older and more developed than your average rookie. More time is not going to make Nix more talented.

I don't need "a plan". I'm not telling you anything other than what should be obvious: Bo Nix ain't it. That's all. What I think Stidham or Wilson could or could not, or would or would not, do is completely irrelevant to the evaluation of Nix as a player.

 

[ABasin]

What he's shown is that his downsides may keep him from ever being a capable starter (Bryce. Young as the #1 pick in 23 looks like his downsides will keep him from being that too.

Young is beyond lost. He just got benched by Carolina.

That Carolina draft trade in 2023 is going to go down as one of history’s worst.

 

[sethro109]

1. It's not 1983
2. Nobody, anywhere on planet earth, had a single question about John Elway's physical talent.

It's the most disingenuous comparison you could possibly make. John Elway was the slam dunk, consensus, generational all time talent. Everyone knew what his strengths and weaknesses were and there was every reason in the world to think that time, experience, and maturity would appreciably improve his level of play. After his first two games, when he hadn't thrown a TD pass yet? He was still the most coveted player in the league. Any coach in the NFL not named Dan Reeves would mail you the still-beating heart of his first born child to have "early Elway" kinds of problems to solve. Because in the face of any weaknesses, his strengths were obvious to even the dumbest observer and impossible to ignore.

Conversely, everyone knew coming in what Bo Nix was. That's why he was the sixth quarterback taken this year. He is much older and more experienced than not just Elway was for his time, but compared the overwhelming majority of all rookie quarterbacks ever. His physical talents are comparatively much more limited, which accounts for why he was drafted so late (both in terms of draft position and his chronological age). He has a considerably smaller margin for error than more talented guys.

Flat out, straight up, Nix doesn't have the physical tools and they don't come with more time. Especially not for a guy who is already older and more developed than your average rookie. More time is not going to make Nix more talented.

I don't need "a plan". I'm not telling you anything other than what should be obvious: Bo Nix ain't it. That's all. What I think Stidham or Wilson could or could not, or would or would not, do is completely irrelevant to the evaluation of Nix as a player.

I'm sick of hearing that "more developed" narrative. Players don't truly develop until they get to the NFL. Bo Nix might not be it, hell most QBs, even "for sure slam dunks" don't end up being NFL level QBs. But there's no way in hell I'm giving up on a rookie QB after only 2 NFL games. You keep bringing up his scouting reports, but also ignore the fact those same scouts still had him going in the first two rounds.

 

[henchman21]

Young is beyond lost. He just got benched by Carolina.

That Carolina draft trade in 2023 is going to go down as one of history’s worst.

Yeah he looks pretty hopeless right now and that trade is pretty rough.

I'm sick of hearing that "more developed" narrative. Players don't truly develop until they get to the NFL. Bo Nix might not be it, hell most QBs, even "for sure slam dunks" don't end up being NFL level QBs. But there's no way in hell I'm giving up on a rookie QB after only 2 NFL games. You keep bringing up his scouting reports, but also ignore the fact those same scouts still had him going in the first two rounds.

QB is probably the area where players get over drafted the most and scouts are wrong about the most. Most of the time the scouts are wrong, they are wrong in the direction of overhyping the player. Hell, look at Zach Wilson... way more hyped than Nix and he's behind Nix after a very short time in the league.

The crux with Nix is that he clearly doesn't have the decision making to be a game manager type (this goes back to his Auburn days), but he also doesn't have the supreme physical gifts to be a top end guy. Where does that really leave him in today's NFL?

Surely it is early on Nix and things can turn around, but kinda like Kaut here... if a guy doesn't have it, no amount of wanting it to work matters.

 

[Pokecheque]

McGlinchey out for at least 4 weeks with an MCL strain.

I haven't cared much for that guy since his arrival, but this obviously doesn't help matters.

Meinerz is about the only blocker I'd keep from this group.

 

[JWK]

Realistically, Broncos need Tez Johnson to save Nix’s career again

 

[ABasin]

Only 23 days until Avs opening night!

 

[5280]

Not sure how you lot can stand the NFL product: Three plays, commercial, kick, commercial, kick return, commercial, play, minor injury, and commercial. What a disaster.

Even though I wish there weren’t so many commercials I still love it when football season comes back around. There’s something about the upcoming fall season and football for me. It’s even better when the Broncos are good.

 

[Hasbro]

1. It's not 1983
2. Nobody, anywhere on planet earth, had a single question about John Elway's physical talent.

It's the most disingenuous comparison you could possibly make. John Elway was the slam dunk, consensus, generational all time talent. Everyone knew what his strengths and weaknesses were and there was every reason in the world to think that time, experience, and maturity would appreciably improve his level of play. After his first two games, when he hadn't thrown a TD pass yet? He was still the most coveted player in the league. Any coach in the NFL not named Dan Reeves would mail you the still-beating heart of his first born child to have "early Elway" kinds of problems to solve. Because in the face of any weaknesses, his strengths were obvious to even the dumbest observer and impossible to ignore.

Conversely, everyone knew coming in what Bo Nix was. That's why he was the sixth quarterback taken this year. He is much older and more experienced than not just Elway was for his time, but compared the overwhelming majority of all rookie quarterbacks ever. His physical talents are comparatively much more limited, which accounts for why he was drafted so late (both in terms of draft position and his chronological age). He has a considerably smaller margin for error than more talented guys.

Flat out, straight up, Nix doesn't have the physical tools and they don't come with more time. Especially not for a guy who is already older and more developed than your average rookie. More time is not going to make Nix more talented.

I don't need "a plan". I'm not telling you anything other than what should be obvious: Bo Nix ain't it. That's all. What I think Stidham or Wilson could or could not, or would or would not, do is completely irrelevant to the evaluation of Nix as a player.

How about Drew Brees apprenticeship then? Shotenheimer and the Chargers gave up on him twice.

 

[famicommander]

How about Drew Brees apprenticeship then? Shotenheimer and the Chargers gave up on him twice.

Do you understand how stark raving insane it is to just call out random guys who had rough starts (Bo Nix is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE WORSE)?

Do you understand that the overwhelming majority of quarterbacks who look this horrible for their first two starts are simply that horrible?

Do you understand that Bo Nix had the worst two game start in terms of efficiency on passes 10 or more yards downfield in the last ten years (since people started tracking that particular stat)?

What are you seeing from Bo Nix that gives you hope? What are you seeing about what he's doing on a football field that causes you to invoke the name of Drew Brees as some kind of analogy for what we're seeing with Bo?

 

[henchman21]

How about Drew Brees apprenticeship then? Shotenheimer and the Chargers gave up on him twice.

Brees’ first game he had a TD pass. Here to help.

 

[Hasbro]

Brees’ first game he had a TD pass. Here to help.

Aaaannnnnddddd two years later they drafted Phil Rivers.

It was also his only game of the season where he came in as relief to Doug Flutie.

 

[Hasbro]

Do you understand how stark raving insane it is to just call out random guys who had rough starts (Bo Nix is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE WORSE)?

Do you understand that the overwhelming majority of quarterbacks who look this horrible for their first two starts are simply that horrible?

Do you understand that Bo Nix had the worst two game start in terms of efficiency on passes 10 or more yards downfield in the last ten years (since people started tracking that particular stat)?

What are you seeing from Bo Nix that gives you hope? What are you seeing about what he's doing on a football field that causes you to invoke the name of Drew Brees as some kind of analogy for what we're seeing with Bo?

I'm just not finding that many good QBs have a good first couple starts as a rookie. Not uncommon for them to sit for their first season.

 

[henchman21]

Aaaannnnnddddd two years later they drafted Phil Rivers.

And he was also a Pro Bowler with San Diego. Brees has his struggles, but let’s be honest, it never reached the lows Nix has already shown… before tape is out on him. Apples and oranges between those two.

I'm just not finding that many good QBs have a good first couple starts as a rookie. Not uncommon for them to sit for their first season.

Not looking very hard… CJ Stroud.

 

[Hasbro]

And he was also a Pro Bowler with San Diego. Brees has his struggles, but let’s be honest, it never reached the lows Nix has already shown… before tape is out on him. Apples and oranges between those two.


Not looking very hard… CJ Stroud.

As did Sam Bradford, RG3 and Rick Mirer.

 

[henchman21]

As did Sam Bradford, RG3 and Rick Mirer.

As did Marino, Big Ben, and Luck. Plenty of good first starts out there amongst good and bad QBs.

RG3 was injury recklessness more than anything else.

Nix isn’t sunk right now, but there is no real positive to take out of it.