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ChiHawks10
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Lol. Yes, you were able to predict that Keuchel would fall off a cliff, and Kelly would be garbage after returning from injury? The bullpen was problematic all last season, and everyone did nothing but bitch about it, yet now that things didn't work out with what they tried to do, Reinsdorf is cheap, and the Sox FO sucks. There really is no logic to the bitching that you and a couple others in here do about the Sox on a regular basis.
The thought would be the Sox wouldn't have to spend on premium talent in FA if Moncada, Robert, Luis, etc. all developed how they're supposed to...
Reinsdorf regularly has a top payroll in baseball. Again, just because he doesn't spend how the FANS want him to spend, doesn't mean he's cheap.
If I were an owner or GM, I'd also be hesitant to spend $400 million on a single player for 15 years. One bad injury and all that money is wasted. An early decline, and 2/3 or more of that money is wasted. IDK, that's just me I guess. Baseball is a game that can be won without having a single player making $400 million on the roster.
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
I hated the Keuchel deal the moment it was signed, FYI. Go to ST for receipts on that one.
They didn't need Kelly. Graveman was fine as the bullpen addition. Foster has been better than Kelly for a fraction of the price. (not saying much, but still)
I'd still sign Grandal 10/10x. The process was correct, even though the results weren't there this year. Grandal was as advertised in 2020 and 2021.
They had plenty of players in the minors that could do what Garcia and Harrison could do. Hell, Mendick was outperforming both before he got hurt.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Hate it all you want. Keuchel pitched like a monster his first season here. There was no predicting he'd just fall off a f***ing cliff the very next season.
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
SSS. I knew it was coming, go look at my 2021 predictions for receipts.
I thought he was going to be Shields bad from the moment he signed.
Keuchel looked like ass in 2019 for Atlanta, it was more surprising that he dominated a weak ALC in 2020 than falling off a cliff in 2021-22.
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DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
The White Sox biggest contract ever is seventy three million. Ways between that and a 300-400 guy.
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
28th in baseball. Only the Pirates and A's haven't eclipsed that.
The largest re-signing in Sox history is Moncada's $70M extension.
Cleveland, for example, just signed Jose Ramirez to a $141M deal.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
He was 8-8 with a 3.75 ERA. That's not "ass". I didn't watch him or see him pitch much, and I'd guarantee you didn't either, but those stats don't indicate "ass" and they don't predict someone falling off a f***ing cliff, either.
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
The playoff start where he couldn't get out of the 4th inning and was lit up like an xmas tree was all I needed to see.
Also 4.82 xERA/4.72 FIP in 2019.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Your views on baseball are generally worse than your views on hockey, but a single start was ALL you needed to see to know Keuchel would fall off a cliff two years later, huh? Even after he came here and dominated. I see...
Got better shit to do than this. I'm done.
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
Your views on baseball are generally worse than your views on hockey, but a single start was ALL you needed to see to know Keuchel would fall off a cliff two years later, huh? Even after he came here and dominated. I see...
Got better shit to do than this. I'm done.
Dallas Keuchel - Stats - Pitching | FanGraphs Baseball
Dallas Keuchel career pitching statistics for Major League, Minor League, and postseason baseball
Look at his peripheral stats. Keuchel had a 4.27 xERA (based on batted ball data) in 2020, which indicates he was insanely lucky.
Keuchel's 2020 was literally the definition of small sample size anomalies.
Sarava
Registered User
This really is a low point getting swept by a bad NL team. To quote the Sun Times - FIRE EVERYONE
Jerry Reinsdorf is a top 5 worst owner in sports. I don't understand anyone ever defending him. The day he dies will be a great day for the White Sox and Bulls, the same way it was for the Blackhawks when Dollar Bill died.
He spends when there's no risk to it. He spends just enough to remain 100% profitable. He is never willing to open the check book for premium talent or free agents. He loves to spend big money on 2-4 year deals for guys past their prime, going back DECADES now. It pretty much always blows up in his face. Keuchel, Joe Kelly, Shields...the list is massive.
The lack of money invested in the organization outside of player payroll is evident to everyone paying attention. I'm sure you could dig up data to back it up, too. I know there's plenty of shit out there about how terrible their minor league conditions were... Strength and conditioning, analytics, minor league development, coaching.... They don't spend money where it counts. There are teams with 2-3 hitting coaches, FFS. Here the White Sox are, with a total f***ing failure as theirs. And the results speak for themselves.
f*** Jerry Reinsdorf and f*** this entire failure of an organization. They just don't deserve fans.
He spends when there's no risk to it. He spends just enough to remain 100% profitable. He is never willing to open the check book for premium talent or free agents. He loves to spend big money on 2-4 year deals for guys past their prime, going back DECADES now. It pretty much always blows up in his face. Keuchel, Joe Kelly, Shields...the list is massive.
The lack of money invested in the organization outside of player payroll is evident to everyone paying attention. I'm sure you could dig up data to back it up, too. I know there's plenty of shit out there about how terrible their minor league conditions were... Strength and conditioning, analytics, minor league development, coaching.... They don't spend money where it counts. There are teams with 2-3 hitting coaches, FFS. Here the White Sox are, with a total f***ing failure as theirs. And the results speak for themselves.
f*** Jerry Reinsdorf and f*** this entire failure of an organization. They just don't deserve fans.
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Yup
The $$ that’s spent is wasted on 2nd tier/borderline all-star caliber talent. Never on superstars. Or real game changers/elite level talent. Never on the important positions of need. Always settling. Never going over the top. Never making a splash.
It’s lame and so is the on field product. I really don’t like this team much anymore and won’t again until they the owner and front office staff are replaced. They’ve managed to completely lose my respect as a supporter of this team, why should I follow along if the FO and owner aren’t truly putting 100% effort and focus into winning a WS? Why continue to commit my time to this cause if the leaders/people at the top running the show don’t care/aren’t giving the team it’s best chance to win?!?
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
Go talk some sense into your younger brother.
This post rules.
RE the bolded, they not only don't deserve fans, but the ones they do have, they hold in contempt.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
ChiHawks10
Registered User
I don't think I was defending him. Just pointing out that he spends money. He just doesn't ever spend it how the fans want him to spend it. Or he doesn't give his GMs the freedom to spend how they know they need to.
I get that he doesn't go after the massive deals for long term. As I've said, I, personally, would be hard-pressed to give guys the contracts for $400 million over 12-15 years if I were an owner. Not sure how anyone wouldn't be, honestly. That's not defending him not doing it, because as a fan, I would love for him to do it, but I get the reasoning behind it, honestly. That's huge risk. Baseball probably needs a salary cap. Just my opinion.
As far as the money invested in the organization outside of player payroll, there would need to be data dug up, like you said, because I've never really read much of anything on the things you're talking about.
southsideIrish
Registered User
He pitched barely 60 innings for the Sox that first year. Obviously since Houston & Atlanta, both legit contenders that know what they're doing, let him go, they understood more about his limitations than the Sox did. He also had clubhouse issues, whining when certain moves weren't made at the deadline, etc.
Sadly Keuchel was only one of many awful decisions this train wreck of an organization has made lately.
Sarava
Registered User
Regarding Keuchel. That he lasted until June unsigned because nobody considered him worth a draft pick. That kind of tells you what MLB as a whole thought of him.
It is what it is. We all wanted Wheeler, but his wife steered him to Philly. There wasn't much left after Wheeler was missed.
It is what it is. We all wanted Wheeler, but his wife steered him to Philly. There wasn't much left after Wheeler was missed.
It was just a general statement.
The Blackhawks wanted to win, and wanted to show everyone they were serious about it. They went out and got the premier defenseman on the market the first day of free agency. The next season they signed the premier forward and a hall of famer on the first day of free agency. A season later, they are hoisting the cup.
Jerry Reinsdorf would f***ing never.... He has no interest in winning a championship. He is a greedy piece of shit who feels entitled to blind loyalty from his fanbase.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
If someone said to me "Yeah, I knew Keuchel would fall off a cliff in 2021 after pitching great in 2020 for the Sox." I'd flat-out call them a liar. I can tell you right now, you, KBS, or anyone else, had no idea he would literally fall off a cliff after 2020, sixty innings or not. Even seeing how he pitched his last couple seasons before the Sox signed him, he should have been a decent 4 or 5 for a few years. He literally went from pitching great to not being MLB caliber.
IIRC, that whole offseason saw a bunch of players lasting a long time unsigned, no? I remember at least a few pitchers that people expected to sign, but hadn't. Don't know if that really proves anything, honestly.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the current play of those players. I'm simply pointing out to KBS that some of these signings weren't terrible when they were signed, like he seems to think. It's revisionist history.
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Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
Keuchel was a terrible signing the moment it was made. I would have rather them gone into 2020 adding nobody to the rotation than signing him.
Literally go to ST. I know you post there. the receipts exist.
2021 BOLD predictions thread
www.soxtalk.com
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There's a lot of speculation that Keuchel was a big sticky stuff guy. Basically, a huge cheater. His demise to being a AAA pitcher more or less coincided with the crackdown, didn't it?
clydesdale line
Connor BeJesus
- Jan 10, 2012
- 25,692
- 24,659
Yep. Once they banned that stuff he was a completely different guy. But I'm not surprised he was doctoring the ball. He is a finesse pitcher and never had elite stuff. But alot of pitchers used it so can't completely call him out only. Hell, Giolito hasn't been the same either (remember thay POS Josh Donaldson called him out after he homered against him).
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