OT: Other Sports 80

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This post didn't age very well :laugh:

Nah it's three games. Talk to me when AT LEAST a quarter of the season has passed is my point. LaVine just got back last game and Ball (who in my opinion is their most important player) is still out a while.
 
Nah it's three games. Talk to me when AT LEAST a quarter of the season has passed is my point. LaVine just got back last game and Ball (who in my opinion is their most important player) is still out a while.
I'm not an NBA guy. But hopefully you're right, because the rest of this town's professional teams are awful. This is a low point for Chicago sports.
 
I'm not an NBA guy. But hopefully you're right, because the rest of this town's professional teams are awful. This is a low point for Chicago sports.

The Bulls aren't title contenders even with Ball back. Certain teams are just too strong and they'll need alot of luck (injuries, off years, etc) for them to beat the top teams in the playoffs, but they are definitely a playoff team as constructed. And the only playoff team Chicago has not named the Chicago Sky.
 
Counting on ball at all is a massive mistake. Hes played a little more than half his possible games since he entered the league.
 
The Bulls aren't title contenders even with Ball back. Certain teams are just too strong and they'll need alot of luck (injuries, off years, etc) for them to beat the top teams in the playoffs, but they are definitely a playoff team as constructed. And the only playoff team Chicago has not named the Chicago Sky.
Not going to pretend to be an NBA expert. But being a playoff contender, but nowhere near a title contender, is generally a really bad spot to be in in professional sports.
 
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Not going to pretend to be an NBA expert. But being a playoff contender, but nowhere near a title contender, is generally a really bad spot to be in in professional sports.
Half to 2/3 of any league's teams can fall into that category. The whole argument for losing every game if you aren't the odds-on favorite sounds so casual fan. Might as well say "I'll be back when my team is in the conference finals". Upsets, freak injuries, and favorable matchups happen in the playoffs every year in every sport. Sport seasons are way too long for me to ignore entire years when my teams aren't championship level. I would've missed some really entertaining seasons had I ignored the years where the teams I follow weren't expected to win it all.
 
Half to 2/3 of any league's teams can fall into that category. The whole argument for losing every game if you aren't the odds-on favorite sounds so casual fan. Might as well say "I'll be back when my team is in the conference finals". Upsets, freak injuries, and favorable matchups happen in the playoffs every year in every sport. Sport seasons are way too long for me to ignore entire years when my teams aren't championship level. I would've missed some really entertaining seasons had I ignored the years where the teams I follow weren't expected to win it all.
I'm not sure where you got ignoring entire years out of what I said in my post. If a team I root for is rebuilding, I'm still a fan, and still watch the games on tv and attend games and all that.

The real problem IMO is - professional sports leagues tend to penalize teams that are stuck in the middle. You don't get the top rookies or young players from the drafts and its usually hard to take that next step without serious impact players. That's where Rick Hahn's now famous 'mired in mediocrity' phrase came from. Yes you can still find young stars without a top 2 or 3 pick - it's just a lot less likely.

Oh and the Phillies are in the World Series and the Astros probably will be shortly as well. Both tanked hard to get to where they are. Kudos to the Astros for sustaining their competitive window better than most have, but hardcore tanking did kick this all off. The systems in place push teams to do that.
 
Half to 2/3 of any league's teams can fall into that category. The whole argument for losing every game if you aren't the odds-on favorite sounds so casual fan. Might as well say "I'll be back when my team is in the conference finals". Upsets, freak injuries, and favorable matchups happen in the playoffs every year in every sport. Sport seasons are way too long for me to ignore entire years when my teams aren't championship level. I would've missed some really entertaining seasons had I ignored the years where the teams I follow weren't expected to win it all.
Nobody's saying not to watch, but the previous poster is right. If you're not a title contender you should tank, and being in the middle is just dumb and wastes everyone's time. There's a reason it's called sports hell.

I completely disagree with the way that AK/Eversley have run the Bulls. It's very reminiscent of how Hahn and Kenny ran the Sox from 2014-16.

They're looking for shortcuts instead of being patient and building.
 
I'm not sure where you got ignoring entire years out of what I said in my post. If a team I root for is rebuilding, I'm still a fan, and still watch the games on tv and attend games and all that.

The real problem IMO is - professional sports leagues tend to penalize teams that are stuck in the middle. You don't get the top rookies or young players from the drafts and its usually hard to take that next step without serious impact players. That's where Rick Hahn's now famous 'mired in mediocrity' phrase came from. Yes you can still find young stars without a top 2 or 3 pick - it's just a lot less likely.

Oh and the Phillies are in the World Series and the Astros probably will be shortly as well. Both tanked hard to get to where they are. Kudos to the Astros for sustaining their competitive window better than most have, but hardcore tanking did kick this all off. The systems in place push teams to do that.
Phillies and to a lesser extent astros also spent big in FA to get elite players. White sox tanked, then nibbled at the edges and are now exactly where Hahn didnt want to be. Its comical to me how willing the Sox are to blow money on guys past their prime, but then refuse to risk having to overpay a guy for 3ish years at the end of a longterm deal. Yup, kuechel for 20 and grandal for 18 is how you win!
 
I'm not sure where you got ignoring entire years out of what I said in my post. If a team I root for is rebuilding, I'm still a fan, and still watch the games on tv and attend games and all that.

The real problem IMO is - professional sports leagues tend to penalize teams that are stuck in the middle. You don't get the top rookies or young players from the drafts and its usually hard to take that next step without serious impact players. That's where Rick Hahn's now famous 'mired in mediocrity' phrase came from. Yes you can still find young stars without a top 2 or 3 pick - it's just a lot less likely.

Oh and the Phillies are in the World Series and the Astros probably will be shortly as well. Both tanked hard to get to where they are. Kudos to the Astros for sustaining their competitive window better than most have, but hardcore tanking did kick this all off. The systems in place push teams to do that.
The solution to that problem is the old Bill Simmons idea of having a playoff between all lottery teams for the #1 pick. Sure there's always going to be a few teams where injuries make it impossible for them to compete, like the year the Spurs got Duncan due to David Robinson being out for the year. Too bad for a team in that situation. If anything, that solution would kill the trade deadline buzz and do away with the selling frenzy. I'm surprised this idea isn't seriously considered because then every team gets those coveted playoff revenues for at least one round.
 
The solution to that problem is the old Bill Simmons idea of having a playoff between all lottery teams for the #1 pick. Sure there's always going to be a few teams where injuries make it impossible for them to compete, like the year the Spurs got Duncan due to David Robinson being out for the year. Too bad for a team in that situation. If anything, that solution would kill the trade deadline buzz and do away with the selling frenzy. I'm surprised this idea isn't seriously considered because then every team gets those coveted playoff revenues for at least one round.
I'm not familiar with his specific idea. But I've long advocated giving all non playoff teams the exact same chance at draft position. Not just the top pick - but all picks for non playoff teams. If you only do it for the #1 pick, or even just the top 3 or 5 picks, teams will still tank with the idea that they will still draft top 3 or top 6 even if luck goes against them.

I'd like to see the worst team in the draft have the same chance at the #1 or #13 picks as the 10th worst team has, etc. In a case like this, there is zero reason not to try to win every game.

I think leagues are slowly heading in the right direction with this, but they need to go about 50x farther with it.

Take the Sox for example. They had a tough year and finished 15th from the bottom. It's nice that they have a chance at the #1 pick, but it's .6% or a 1 in 167 chance. You might see odds like that hit about once every 10 or 15 years, but that's about it. They need to go farther with this IMO.

And for you - don't blame fans for this crap. This is on the professional leagues. Fans shouldn't be faulted for wanting their team to win a championship someday.
 
Phillies and to a lesser extent astros also spent big in FA to get elite players. White sox tanked, then nibbled at the edges and are now exactly where Hahn didnt want to be. Its comical to me how willing the Sox are to blow money on guys past their prime, but then refuse to risk having to overpay a guy for 3ish years at the end of a longterm deal. Yup, kuechel for 20 and grandal for 18 is how you win!
The Astros didn't do much at all with FAs. Almost all of their roster now is home grown. In fact they've let a lot of high priced talent walk and replaced them internally.
 
The Astros didn't do much at all with FAs. Almost all of their roster now is home grown. In fact they've let a lot of high priced talent walk and replaced them internally.
They signed their cy young pitcher, though good point that theu havent handed out the huge fa deals.
 
I'm not familiar with his specific idea. But I've long advocated giving all non playoff teams the exact same chance at draft position. Not just the top pick - but all picks for non playoff teams. If you only do it for the #1 pick, or even just the top 3 or 5 picks, teams will still tank with the idea that they will still draft top 3 or top 6 even if luck goes against them.

I'd like to see the worst team in the draft have the same chance at the #1 or #13 picks as the 10th worst team has, etc. In a case like this, there is zero reason not to try to win every game.

I think leagues are slowly heading in the right direction with this, but they need to go about 50x farther with it.

Take the Sox for example. They had a tough year and finished 15th from the bottom. It's nice that they have a chance at the #1 pick, but it's .6% or a 1 in 167 chance. You might see odds like that hit about once every 10 or 15 years, but that's about it. They need to go farther with this IMO.

And for you - don't blame fans for this crap. This is on the professional leagues. Fans shouldn't be faulted for wanting their team to win a championship someday.
I'm of the opinion that every pick for non-playoff teams should be subject to the lottery. I think weighting the odds based on record is fine, as in a year like this one you don't want teams in the playoff hunt missing on purpose to get a crack at Bedard et al.

Basically it would randomize the draft order for non-playoff teams and I'd bet there'd be a team every year that would jump from 13 to 6 or something like that.
 
I believe it was reported that Ozzie said no interviews have happened or are scheduled. Honestly - I don't think anyone knows what the hell is going on. There's a lot of people that pretend to be insiders (particularly on Soxtalk) and none of them seem to be right more often than an average fan guessing would be. I think we just need to sit back and see what happens.

I do wonder what's up with Soxfest being cancelled without reason. Is this an indication that they expect an irate fanbase at that time and just don't want to deal with it? We may be in for a long winter if they are going to spend it protecting Jerry's bank account instead of making the team better.
Ok. I would recommend the WS to hire an actually good manager, not a mascot like Ozzie.
 
I'm not familiar with his specific idea. But I've long advocated giving all non playoff teams the exact same chance at draft position. Not just the top pick - but all picks for non playoff teams. If you only do it for the #1 pick, or even just the top 3 or 5 picks, teams will still tank with the idea that they will still draft top 3 or top 6 even if luck goes against them.

I'd like to see the worst team in the draft have the same chance at the #1 or #13 picks as the 10th worst team has, etc. In a case like this, there is zero reason not to try to win every game.

I think leagues are slowly heading in the right direction with this, but they need to go about 50x farther with it.

Take the Sox for example. They had a tough year and finished 15th from the bottom. It's nice that they have a chance at the #1 pick, but it's .6% or a 1 in 167 chance. You might see odds like that hit about once every 10 or 15 years, but that's about it. They need to go farther with this IMO.

And for you - don't blame fans for this crap. This is on the professional leagues. Fans shouldn't be faulted for wanting their team to win a championship someday.
I blame fans for thinking sports success is as easy as "lose every game if we aren't winning every game". Most CITIES, not just teams, are lucky to experience one championship season in a generation. Being fan is about sticking with a team when it isn't the best of times. Sure, there are plenty of poorly run franchises, but this tank all the time idiocy is found on every team's fan sites. It's beyond being a meme; it's baby's first word in the world of sports now.
 
I blame fans for thinking sports success is as easy as "lose every game if we aren't winning every game". Most CITIES, not just teams, are lucky to experience one championship season in a generation. Being fan is about sticking with a team when it isn't the best of times. Sure, there are plenty of poorly run franchises, but this tank all the time idiocy is found on every team's fan sites. It's beyond being a meme; it's baby's first word in the world of sports now.
You're going off the rails from what we are talking about again. Nobody here said it's easy. Nobody said they arent sticking with their teams. If you have an argument, I'm not sure who it's with. This stuff doesn't relate to my posts.
 
They signed their cy young pitcher, though good point that theu havent handed out the huge fa deals.
That was five years ago. The only other one I can remember off the top of my head was Michael Brantley, who's been injured most of this season. Everyone else they've had during this run has been home grown or some savvy trades have been made (fleecing the Dodgers for Alvarez for example).

I think only the Braves produced more runs from their young talent than Houston did this year.
 
They signed their cy young pitcher, though good point that theu havent handed out the huge fa deals.
Good point. Cheating or not, the Astros are the model for how to run a baseball franchise over the last 5-10 years.

And I'll add that Alex Bregman has probably been their MVP over the last 6 years. Alex Bregman was drafted #2 overall in 2015, after the Astros selected Brady Aiken 1st in 2014, but didn't sign him. This pick came from tanking hard. If people don't see why fans of teams that are mired in mediocrity want to follow suit, I don't know what to say. And in the end, it's up to the leagues to change the system.
 
(To me) Lotteries are bullshit. I’m against reducing it all to a game of chance.

I’d consider making the draft order based on how many points a team accumulated after they were eliminated from the playoffs.
The worst teams would be eliminated much earlier in the season and would have many more games to get points. Though since they suck many would be losses. The last 1 to 4-5 teams to be eliminated would only have a few games to get points. A team eliminated on the season’s last day picks 16. Overall points is the tie breaker. I’m just not sure if it should be more or less points breaking the ties.
It keeps managements honest, tanking would be punished. It also makes for better hockey as both the playoff and non playoff teams have something to gain by winning.

A constant fear is 2 teams meeting on the last day and the loser gets the best lottery odds
How about if the 2 bad teams played on the last day and the winner gets the better draft position?
 
That was five years ago. The only other one I can remember off the top of my head was Michael Brantley, who's been injured most of this season. Everyone else they've had during this run has been home grown or some savvy trades have been made (fleecing the Dodgers for Alvarez for example).

I think only the Braves produced more runs from their young talent than Houston did this year.
Edit: nvm, misunderstood
 
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Bulls look like they will have beaten the heat and celtics and lost to the wizards and cavs. Talk about an enigma.
 
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