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Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LXII: The Bulls are technically an NBA team

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ColdSteel2

ColdSteel2

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piteus said:
I have no issues with either Baines and Smith. I get it, both were compliers. That said, Harold Baines saved baseball on the Southside. He means a lot to ChiSox fans. Smith was one of the top relievers for over a decade.

Martinez, Whitaker, Mussina, Murphy, etc. should also make it too.

As for the steroid users, let them in too. Just put a notation on their plaque of positive tests or suspcision of use.

HOFs should be a celebration of the sport. Some people use it as a sort of validity of their careers.
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My problem with putting them in is the damage they caused to their fellow players’ careers. The starting pitcher who got called up and served up 2 bombs to one of these guys and lost his confidence, never to return. The slick fielding position players with a good enough bat that never got a chance. Not to mention all of the extra money they made that would have been more spread out to other players. And these guys were already stars and probable hall of famers, they just wanted even more than that and didn’t care who had to pay for it.
 
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piteus

piteus

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ColdSteel2 said:
My problem with putting them in is the damage they caused to their fellow players’ careers. The starting pitcher who got called up and served up 2 bombs to one of these guys and lost his confidence, never to return. The slick fielding position players with a good enough bat that never got a chance. Not to mention all of the extra money they made that would have been more spread out to other players. And these guys were already stars and probable hall of famers, they just wanted even more than that and didn’t care who had to pay for it.
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I understand your point of view too. There's no easy solution.
 

hawksrule

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I don’t worked up about the hall of fame, but I find it misguided to water down the needed accomplishments to make entry less and less special. It’s what happens every time we play ‘if abc is in then we can make a case for xyz’.
 
piteus

piteus

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hawksrule said:
I don’t worked up about the hall of fame, but I find it misguided to water down the needed accomplishments to make entry less and less special. It’s what happens every time we play ‘if abc is in then we can make a case for xyz’.
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It's not like Baines, Smith, Martinez, Murphy, Mussina, Whitaker, etc. are not deserving. Those careers were great. Longevity is a talent too.

The Hall already accepted Bill Mazeroski. Pandora's Box is already open.
 

hawksrule

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piteus said:
It's not like Baines, Smith, Martinez, Murphy, Mussina, Whitaker, etc. are not deserving. Those careers were great. Longevity is a talent too.

The Hall already accepted Bill Mazeroski. Pandora's Box is already open.
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You’re erroneously lumping those guys together. Mussina should be in no question. The issue with Edgar is dh. The issue with Murphy is short career that fell off a cliff. Baines is absolutely undeserving. And I hate putting in relievers, except of course Mo, so I would never put in Smith. It doesn’t help that in Smith’s one big moment - game 4 vs Garvey - he failed as much as one can fail.
 
piteus

piteus

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hawksrule said:
You’re erroneously lumping those guys together. Mussina should be in no question. The issue with Edgar is dh. The issue with Murphy is short career that fell off a cliff. Baines is absolutely undeserving. And I hate putting in relievers, except of course Mo, so I would never put in Smith. It doesn’t help that in Smith’s one big moment - game 4 vs Garvey - he failed as much as one can fail.
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It's subjective. My thing is that they are all in the conversation. Is Baines a reach? Sure. However, he's not undeserving.

For example, Dale Murphy was the equivalent of Mike Trout in the early 80s. For about 5 years, he was the best player in baseball. You can't talk about 80s baseball without mentioning Dale Murphy.

It's all subjective. As long as they are in the conversation, it's not a big deal to let the guys in who are on the fence. Is Fred McGriff a stretch? Maybe. However, his career wasn't anything to sneeze at. As long as they're close, I don't think it's a big issue.
 

hawksrule

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piteus said:
It's subjective. My thing is that they are all in the conversation. Is Baines a reach? Sure. However, he's not undeserving.

For example, Dale Murphy was the equivalent of Mike Trout in the early 80s. For about 5 years, he was the best player in baseball. You can't talk about 80s baseball without mentioning Dale Murphy.

It's all subjective. As long as they are in the conversation, it's not a big deal to let the guys in who are on the fence. Is Fred McGriff a stretch? Maybe. However, his career wasn't anything to sneeze at. As long as they're close, I don't think it's a big issue.
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We can agree to disagree. Every time someone is elected because he’s close to the previously worst person elected, it’s a race to the bottom.
 
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piteus

piteus

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hawksrule said:
We can agree to disagree. Every time someone is elected because he’s close to the previously worst person elected, it’s a race to the bottom.
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You have a good point to. I'm just sick and tired of the MLB writers/voters becoming so snooty about their criterias. There is no rhyme and reason.
 
piteus

piteus

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hawksrule said:
No they shouldn’t. Gambling on the sport is the worst thing a player/manager can possibly do.
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Yeah ... Rose really did gamble on his games. That's so harmful, it's beyond repair. Shoeless Joe ... who knows what story is true.
 

HawksBeerFan

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piteus said:
I have no issues with either Baines and Smith. I get it, both were compliers. That said, Harold Baines saved baseball on the Southside. He means a lot to ChiSox fans. Smith was one of the top relievers for over a decade.

Martinez, Whitaker, Mussina, Murphy, etc. should also make it too.

As for the steroid users, let them in too. Just put a notation on their plaque of positive tests or suspcision of use.

HOFs should be a celebration of the sport. Some people use it as a sort of validity of their careers.
Click to expand...
Baines getting in is a joke, he has no statistical case at all.
 
No Fun Shogun

No Fun Shogun

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All we know is this about Rose.... he bet on baseball, the literally one universal rule in baseball with a clear permanent ban attached to it, and then lied about it for decades. So, while he can claim he never bet on his team to lose, he's already an admitted liar so we can't take his word at any value. Finally, even if he didn't, can anyone honestly say that the fact that he knew he was going to bet on other games had zero impact on his roster decisions on other days? That uncertainty is why the ban needs to be upheld. f*** him.

And Jackson, too. He agreed to get paid as part of the agreement to throw the games, and even if you adhere to the notion that he still played his butt off, he still screwed over his non-involved teammates and manager by not bringing the bullshit to their attention.
 
piteus

piteus

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HawksBeerFan said:
Baines getting in is a joke, he has no statistical case at all.
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It's defintely a stretch. However, he's close enough to the fence where it isn't farce. However, I see why people say there are more deserving players before him.
 
TorMenT

TorMenT

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All I know is if I ever made a new sport, the hall of fans would be only for the very best of the best of the best. Basically NOBODY would question any of the VERY few people in there because they would truly be elite. If nobody got in for like 5 years in a row, no big deal.
 
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