Oshawa Generals 2024-25 Season Thread, Part 1

[OMG67]

The price suggested on the hounds thread is quite a bit steeper

It’s good to want.

A 1st round pick plus four additional picks for Gibson is a solid and reasonable return.

 

[dirty12]

It’s good to want.

A 1st round pick plus four additional picks for Gibson is a solid and reasonable return.

More reasonable than Hopkins + multiple 2nds, 3rds or ‘08-1st, 2(2,3,4) expected by hounds fans I think.

 

[OMG67]

More reasonable than Hopkins + multiple 2nds, 3rds or ‘08-1st, 2(2,3,4) expected by hounds fans I think.

That expectation is ridiculous.

 

[Fischhaber]

That’s about the right return. If I had to make a guess, that’s what I would say is the value.

I think if Gibson was going to go for less than Allen, as you suggest, then he would be a London Knight right now.

I would expect that the Hounds GM already has a better offer than that in his back pocket. If he doesn't, then he misread the market badly and London made a huge overpay for Allen. We'll find out in the coming weeks.

That expectation is ridiculous.

A consensus lesser player literally just went for a good 07 + 2,2,3,3,4,4. The market has already spoken and it doesn't matter whether you think it's ridiculous or not. People on the Hounds forum aren't just making up stuff. They are simply making reasonable expectations based on what the market is.

 

[OMG67]

I think if Gibson was going to go for less than Allen, as you suggest, then he would be a London Knight right now.

I would expect that the Hounds GM already has a better offer than that in his back pocket. If he doesn't, then he misread the market badly and London made a huge overpay for Allen. We'll find out in the coming weeks.


A consensus lesser player literally just went for a good 07 + 2,2,3,3,4,4. The market has already spoken and it doesn't matter whether you think it's ridiculous or not. People on the Hounds forum aren't just making up stuff. They are simply making reasonable expectations based on what the market is.

There’s a BIG difference between Noah Jenkin and Brady Smith. If you subbed out Brady Smith and subbed in Shawn Costello then I’d probably agree that you would get that volume of picks.

 

[dirty12]

That expectation is ridiculous.

Actually just looked again, it was ‘08-1st, 2(2,3,4,5)

 

[Fischhaber]

There’s a BIG difference between Noah Jenkin and Brady Smith. If you subbed out Brady Smith and subbed in Shawn Costello then I’d probably agree that you would get that volume of picks.

Sure there is. There's also a huge gap between Jenken and a virtually worthless Costello.

I haven't seen anyone suggest Smith and 7 picks, but a guy like Owen Griffin and 7 picks is comparable to what London gave for Allen. Griffin is a bit better than Jenken, Gibson is a bit better than Allen.

Something like Smith + 4 picks (2,3,3,3) strikes me as being pretty reasonable and in line with what we have seen in past seasons.

 

[OMG67]

Actually just looked again, it was ‘08-1st, 2(2,3,4,5)

Again, that is just crazy talk. If you look at the Rehkopf deal and massage the picks with Smith added, it is like saying Brady Smith, a 1st round pick that was highly regarded, is worth a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. That is less than the conditional picks received for defected players that also get a comp 1st.

That is some kind of dreamland vision….

Sure there is. There's also a huge gap between Jenken and a virtually worthless Costello.

I haven't seen anyone suggest Smith and 7 picks, but a guy like Owen Griffin and 7 picks is comparable to what London gave for Allen. Griffin is a bit better than Jenken, Gibson is a bit better than Allen.

Something like Smith + 4 picks (2,3,3,3) strikes me as being pretty reasonable and in line with what we have seen in past seasons.

That is NOT what was suggested in the post I replied to so don’t change the parameters.

Brady Smith and a 2nd+3rd is reasonable considering trades made at the deadline last year. McCoy would be the comparable. Gibson would garner an additional 2nd, 3rd, 7th, and 10th ABOVE what McCoy was dealt for under Donnie’s trade recommendation.

Konnor Smith AND McCue went for less last year than what you are suggesting for Gibson.

 

[dirty12]

Again, that is just crazy talk. If you look at the Rehkopf deal and massage the picks with Smith added, it is like saying Brady Smith, a 1st round pick that was highly regarded, is worth a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. That is less than the conditional picks received for defected players that also get a comp 1st.

That is some kind of dreamland vision….



That is NOT what was suggested in the post I replied to so don’t change the parameters.

Brady Smith and a 2nd+3rd is reasonable considering trades made at the deadline last year. McCoy would be the comparable. Gibson would garner an additional 2nd, 3rd, 7th, and 10th ABOVE what McCoy was dealt for under Donnie’s trade recommendation.

Konnor Smith AND McCue went for less last year than what you are suggesting for Gibson.

Not gonna lie, I’d like to the gens give up their 1st and all remaining 2-5 picks through 2028 for one player.

 

[Fischhaber]

Again, that is just crazy talk. If you look at the Rehkopf deal and massage the picks with Smith added, it is like saying Brady Smith, a 1st round pick that was highly regarded, is worth a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. That is less than the conditional picks received for defected players that also get a comp 1st.

That is some kind of dreamland vision….



That is NOT what was suggested in the post I replied to so don’t change the parameters.

Brady Smith and a 2nd+3rd is reasonable considering trades made at the deadline last year. McCoy would be the comparable. Gibson would garner an additional 2nd, 3rd, 7th, and 10th ABOVE what McCoy was dealt for under Donnie’s trade recommendation.

Konnor Smith AND McCue went for less last year than what you are suggesting for Gibson.

In what dream world is McCoy a comp for Gibson? You can fairly accuse me of some level of bias, but he's the top defenseman on Team Canada for god sakes. He's been best defensive defenseman and shot blocker in the OHL coaches poll for 2 consecutive years.

This also isn't last year, it's this year. The Allen deal already happened. Gibson is going to get more unless something goes horribly wrong for the Hounds. If Brady Smith and 2 picks was the market then Gibson would already be in London.

 

[OMG67]

Not gonna lie, I’d like to the gens give up their 1st and all remaining 2-5 picks through 2028 for one player.

LOL. They probably can afford to when they play the role of Peterborough next year and are forced to sell off everyone not nailed down.

I am not a fan of that strategy though. I don’t think it is good for the league, nor the teams themselves.

I am fine with teams trying to align themselves with a cycle or competitive window. But, I think more needs to be done leading up to that window compiling draft picks in less negatively impactful ways. I like the strategy of using the defect rule one year but make sure you pick a player you are going to trade as a guarantee report so you can get the picks (Henry Brzustewicz or Sam Dickinson as an example). Trade for picks deeper in the future that aren’t worth as much currently so you can compile more picks. Try to nail down that extra 3rd and 4th because the 2nd you are receiving is 3 or 4 years down the road. Be disciplined and trade a player or two every deadline that you are not contending.

It doesn’t need to be a 4 year cycle. It can be a 6 or 7 year cycle by staying moderately competitive 3 years with one or two years closer to the bottom where you pick early in back to back years and acquire anchor players. Then gear up and align your assets in a way that allows for a big push without needing to decimate your franchise to do it.

But, above all, you need to be disciplined in your trading and not put yourself in a desperate position. Brantford traded way too much for Leenders. If you need to trade that high a volume of picks, just go get an OA goalie. I am not a fan of OA goalies for contenders but if your only recourse is trading 8-10 picks for a goalie then get a capable OA instead for 1/4 the cost.

 

[Nerf27]

Not gonna lie, I’d like to the gens give up their 1st and all remaining 2-5 picks through 2028 for one player.

No one here cares about what you think. All you do is troll the Gens board. Keep it classy as usual for 2025.

 

[leafs4life94]

In what dream world is McCoy a comp for Gibson? You can fairly accuse me of some level of bias, but he's the top defenseman on Team Canada for god sakes. He's been best defensive defenseman and shot blocker in the OHL coaches poll for 2 consecutive years.

This also isn't last year, it's this year. The Allen deal already happened. Gibson is going to get more unless something goes horribly wrong for the Hounds. If Brady Smith and 2 picks was the market then Gibson would already be in London.

Not even getting to the trade stuff, if you're going to hype up your guy, at least make your claims accurate or somewhat subjective and not something easily disproven by a Google search.

He was tied for best shot blocker last year, but he was third best defensive defenseman behing Andonovski and Dickinson.

Two years ago he wasn't anywhere to be seen on the coaches poll.

Gibson is obviously good and will net a solid return but we have to be realistic about it.

 

[OMG67]

In what dream world is McCoy a comp for Gibson? You can fairly accuse me of some level of bias, but he's the top defenseman on Team Canada for god sakes. He's been best defensive defenseman and shot blocker in the OHL coaches poll for 2 consecutive years.

This also isn't last year, it's this year. The Allen deal already happened. Gibson is going to get more unless something goes horribly wrong for the Hounds. If Brady Smith and 2 picks was the market then Gibson would already be in London.

I just said that in a BETTER DRAFT YEAR where Brady Smith is better than any of the 1st rounders traded last year is used in a deal PLUS an extra FOUR picks including a 2nd and a 3rd is a reasonable upgrade in an effort to bridge the gap between McCoy and Gibson. And don’t play that off. McCoy played the exact same role last year for Peterborough/Sudbury as Gibson is playing this year. The gap between Gibson and McCoy isn’t nearly as big as you suggest. Considering the considerable upgrade in the deal proposed vs McCoy last year, it is more than generous.

I agree that trade values are increasing but you cannot compare Jenken to Smith in value. They aren’t on the same level at all. Brady Smith may be the best “potentially available” 1st round pick at this deadline. There are many that would put Smith ahead of Parker Vaughn who was picked 5th overall. The value of Brady Smith is crazy high. I think you are not familiar with how good Brady Smith actually is.

 

[Leviathan899]

Sure there is. There's also a huge gap between Jenken and a virtually worthless Costello.

I haven't seen anyone suggest Smith and 7 picks, but a guy like Owen Griffin and 7 picks is comparable to what London gave for Allen. Griffin is a bit better than Jenken, Gibson is a bit better than Allen.

Something like Smith + 4 picks (2,3,3,3) strikes me as being pretty reasonable and in line with what we have seen in past seasons.

If griffin is apart of the deal, expect a package deal. Something like D’Amato and griffin and picks for Allard/Gibson. Or Mignosa.

 

[Noddy]

No matter who the Generals are going to trade for it's going to a lot ie: picks + players, and I'm fine with that as this is the last kick in the can, do what you got to as next season we have some assets we can recoop.

 

[Fischhaber]

I just said that in a BETTER DRAFT YEAR where Brady Smith is better than any of the 1st rounders traded last year is used in a deal PLUS an extra FOUR picks including a 2nd and a 3rd is a reasonable upgrade in an effort to bridge the gap between McCoy and Gibson. And don’t play that off. McCoy played the exact same role last year for Peterborough/Sudbury as Gibson is playing this year. The gap between Gibson and McCoy isn’t nearly as big as you suggest. Considering the considerable upgrade in the deal proposed vs McCoy last year, it is more than generous.

I agree that trade values are increasing but you cannot compare Jenken to Smith in value. They aren’t on the same level at all. Brady Smith may be the best “potentially available” 1st round pick at this deadline. There are many that would put Smith ahead of Parker Vaughn who was picked 5th overall. The value of Brady Smith is crazy high. I think you are not familiar with how good Brady Smith actually is.

You're getting upset when you see a perceived misinterpretation of what you said (which is to be expected in text form) and then somehow accuse me of thinking Smith and Jenken are the same, when I never said that and already agreed with you that they weren't.

You're leaning on these strawman arguments to make your point instead of actually debating me. You're also accusing me of ignorance about a player (valid for any fan, in some cases), while continuing to say that a second pairing guy in McCoy (who can't even be a plus player on a good Sudbury team) is comparable to a guy who is the top defenseman on Team Canada. I see McCoy a ton and he's not great defensively, not as physical as he should be, and very poor offensively. Most Sudbury fans want to deal him.

I don't really participate in discussions where people are unwilling or unable to refute my points and rely on these kinds of methods. Good luck to your 67's going forward. Good luck to the Generals too.

 

[OMG67]

You're getting upset when you see a perceived misinterpretation of what you said (which is to be expected in text form) and then somehow accuse me of thinking Smith and Jenken are the same, when I never said that and already agreed with you that they weren't.

You're leaning on these strawman arguments to make your point instead of actually debating me. You're also accusing me of ignorance about a player (valid for any fan, in some cases), while continuing to say that a second pairing guy in McCoy (who can't even be a plus player on a good Sudbury team) is comparable to a guy who is the top defenseman on Team Canada. I see McCoy a ton and he's not great defensively, not as physical as he should be, and very poor offensively. Most Sudbury fans want to deal him.

I don't really participate in discussions where people are unwilling or unable to refute my points and rely on these kinds of methods. Good luck to your 67's going forward. Good luck to the Generals too.

That’s fair. We disagree on the gap between McCoy and Gibson. Fine. But, the reality exists that I stated Smith plus a 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 10th is a valuable return for Gibson. I stand by that claim.

Smith is an elite prospect. Smith’s value in comparison to Jenken isn’t even comparable in any way which is why I suggested the Allen trade is not a comparable. It quite simply is not. You cannot expect similar pick assets to accompany Smith as was Jenken.

And, I agreed that McCoy and Gibson creates a gap which is why I suggested the deal Donnie proposed which included a 2nd, 3rd, and two deeper picks (presumably a 7th and 10th) would be the adequate return for Gibson.

Brady Smith, by many scouts, was a top 5 rated player for the OHL draft. He slipped to Oshawa with some difficulty pertaining to signability. Connor Williams kicked him at #4 in the Brock Otten Mock draft. The kid is crazy good offensively. There may be issues with him reporting to SSM considering his signability issues entering the draft so this may all be a moot point.

But, regardless, the original reply that you replied to was a ridiculous expected return (not posted by you) where it would be Smith plus multiple 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths.

Your expected return is too high IMO. Four high picks plus Smith is what Peterborough traded for two years of Owen Beck. No offence but Owen Beck was a more impactful player than Gibson. The added year of service aside, you still cannot draw comparisons even considering inflationary pressure on trade values.

The reality is, Oshawa is likely the only team (now maybe Erie withthe Schaefer injury) that would be serious about adding Gibson. Barrie will not. Brampton doesn’t have an ‘08 to move, neither does Kingston. Windsor won’t move Belchetz. Brantford is less likely to add a d-Man considering they had Hamara and Jiricek added. London already added Allen.

The best possible player SSM could acquire is Smith. The next best is Challenger. Kingston is not going to move Hopkins. Brady Smith is better than Griffin as a prospect but Griffin is a more important player for Oshawa this year so less likely to part with that player.

SSM needs to decide if they are prioritizing the high ceiling player or the picks. They cannot get both. It is one or the other.

 

[leafs4life94]

You're getting upset when you see a perceived misinterpretation of what you said (which is to be expected in text form) and then somehow accuse me of thinking Smith and Jenken are the same, when I never said that and already agreed with you that they weren't.

You're leaning on these strawman arguments to make your point instead of actually debating me. You're also accusing me of ignorance about a player (valid for any fan, in some cases), while continuing to say that a second pairing guy in McCoy (who can't even be a plus player on a good Sudbury team) is comparable to a guy who is the top defenseman on Team Canada. I see McCoy a ton and he's not great defensively, not as physical as he should be, and very poor offensively. Most Sudbury fans want to deal him.

I don't really participate in discussions where people are unwilling or unable to refute my points and rely on these kinds of methods. Good luck to your 67's going forward. Good luck to the Generals too.

Sudbury is a +3 in goal differential. -7 if you remove PP goals where +/- isn't a factor. Using the fact he's a -1 isn't the gotcha you think it is.

Can you tell me where the coaches voted Gibson as the best shot blocker and defensive defenseman for the last two years?