Organizational Moves (Front Office & Scouting)

[Gniwder]

I was completely mocked during the draft for pointing out that the lack of Canadian picks was an indication of lack of confidence in the scouts and that changes were likely. Their only pick from Canadian juniors was their last pick.

Also, it's interesting that they chose to leave Mr Ilitch as the owner, given they listed the year of his death it looks like a tribute.

 

[Inspiration]

Could think Verbeek will be the scouting Director.

And won't cry after anybody as long as Håkan Andersson stays.

He is a miracle man.

Serious question: is he? Look at the Red Wings' European drafting the last 15 years. Is it better than [insert average NHL team]?

 

[Run the Jewels]

Long overdue IMO. Our drafting and development have been mediocre for nearly 20 years. I wish all those guys well but I'm looking forward to Yzerman building this the right way.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Serious question: is he? Look at the Red Wings' European drafting the last 15 years. Is it better than [insert average NHL team]?

He's our best scout and it's not close. I think he gets mythologized a bit too much but it was refreshing to see him finally given picks at the top of the draft. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this class develops.

 

[Frk It]

Serious question: is he? Look at the Red Wings' European drafting the last 15 years. Is it better than [insert average NHL team]?

Neglect to give [insert any scout] top 50 picks for a prolonged period of time and that’s what you are going to get.

We have 2 very good Swedish goalie prospects right now folks, FWIW. But prior to the 2017 and 2019 drafts, I think it was Kronwall in 2000 that was the last top 50 selection that was a Hakan pick.

 

[Gniwder]

Serious question: is he? Look at the Red Wings' European drafting the last 15 years. Is it better than [insert average NHL team]?

To be fair, the majority of the picks were later round. The 2nd round picks weren't so bad (Hronek, Tats, Jarnkrok) and there's Jamark and Franzen in 3rd round, Nyquist in 4th round. His only second round miss was Dick Axelsson. That's pretty good considering anything past the first round is hit or miss.

The reason why he's not finding many late round gems is because the other teams are scouting better and using earlier picks on Euro's. If we're going to judge him on what he can do in earlier rounds, we'll have to wait to see how this year's crop turns out.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Again, you guys don't think our scouting staff establishes a rank-order draft list that extends at least to 60 or 70? I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but I have a hard time imaging that Kenny sat at the table and spontaneously asked Hakan to make the 69th overall pick or the 44th overall pick or the 122nd overall pick. I can guarantee you that there are players that Hakan and the organization loved but that we did not draft simply because someone took them before we could get them. 5th, 6th or 7th round? Sure, I will give you those.

Hakan probably has a huge impact on the draft. That influence, however, most likely manifests itself in our draft list, not individual "Hakan Picks."

 

[The Zermanator]

Neglect to give [insert any scout] top 50 picks for a prolonged period of time and that’s what you are going to get.

We have 2 very good Swedish goalie prospects right now folks, FWIW. But prior to the 2017 and 2019 drafts, I think it was Kronwall in 2000 that was the last top 50 selection that was a Hakan pick.

Yes exactly. And just to expand on this a little, you have to look at how many stars were chosen in Europe after the top 50 picks in the last 20 years. Whatever the number, safe to say it's not a long list. And he doesn't even make the final call. Say he tells them Player A (who will become a star) is the one they should pick with their 3rd rounder and they go with someone else, and use their 4th rounder on a Hakan pick but Player A is no longer on the board. Can't pick what isn't there. He's found several very important players for us over the years. Very much hoping he stays, which I think he will.

 

[deca guard]

personally ive been unimpressed with hakan for years . but once 19 came in and gave him the hammer this draft that changed as i guarantee 19 asked guys like draper / clears /malts / etc whats been going on with the drafts ? they no doubt told him hakans been hammering them big time but kenny keeps over riding his pix .

 

[Run the Jewels]

Again, you guys don't think our scouting staff establishes a rank-order draft list that extends at least to 60 or 70? I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but I have a hard time imaging that Kenny sat at the table and spontaneously asked Hakan to make the 69th overall pick or the 44th overall pick or the 122nd overall pick. I can guarantee you that there are players that Hakan and the organization loved but that we did not draft simply because someone took them before we could get them. 5th, 6th or 7th round? Sure, I will give you those.

Hakan probably has a huge impact on the draft. That influence, however, most likely manifests itself in our draft list, not individual "Hakan Picks."

One example that has been mentioned is Alexander Edler. Hakan liked him and it sounds like we were prepared to pick him but Vancouver drafted him before we picked.

For whatever reason Hakan was very rarely given top 50 picks. I think Holland leaned very heavily on his NA scouts plus they likely got to see those guys much more given the geographical proximity and that made Holland comfortable.

For me it became clear about halfway through the draft that Yzerman was giving Hakan more input this time around. It made a lot of sense, more sense than suggesting Detroit didn't rate a single European skater in the top 50 players most years.

So it's not a surprise many of those NA scouts are on their way out the door.

 

[Gniwder]

Again, you guys don't think our scouting staff establishes a rank-order draft list that extends at least to 60 or 70? I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but I have a hard time imaging that Kenny sat at the table and spontaneously asked Hakan to make the 69th overall pick or the 44th overall pick or the 122nd overall pick. I can guarantee you that there are players that Hakan and the organization loved but that we did not draft simply because someone took them before we could get them. 5th, 6th or 7th round? Sure, I will give you those.

Hakan probably has a huge impact on the draft. That influence, however, most likely manifests itself in our draft list, not individual "Hakan Picks."

I'm sure they have a long list every year, more than likely even larger than your number. They're scouts, it's their full time job to make that list.

There are NA scouts with one list and Euro scouts with another. So the big question is how do you merge the 2 lists? Obviously Hakan's list wasn't highly prioritized until now. Considering how many picks he got this draft, I expect him to stay. You don't leave a job where your boss respects your opinion.

 

[Henkka]

What was the hate against Jeff Finley few years ago on this board?

I remember somebody did know something more about him?

 

[Henkka]

Serious question: is he? Look at the Red Wings' European drafting the last 15 years. Is it better than [insert average NHL team]?

I just want him to educate other scouts how to scout. One guy doesn't make miracles in the future like he did on the past, but his thinking process will do.

 

[obey86]

Overall, I have liked the drafts since Tyler Wright came on board.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Honestly I'm more conflicted seeing Wright go than I'd have expected. Every time he spoke about draft philosophy and what he saw in the players he liked, I disagreed with most of what he prioritized. I frequently disliked the picks he seemed most excited about and we just have very different priorities in a prospect. But I'm conflicted because besides 2017 we've drafted pretty well under Wright. Let's see who replaces him

 

[Hen Kolland]

Honestly I'm more conflicted seeing Wright go than I'd have expected. Every time he spoke about draft philosophy and what he saw in the players he liked, I disagreed with most of what he prioritized. I frequently disliked the picks he seemed most excited about and we just have very different priorities in a prospect. But I'm conflicted because besides 2017 we've drafted pretty well under Wright. Let's see who replaces him

2018 and 2019 players in the top 2 rounds I have liked quite a bit. Zadina, Seider, Veleno, Berggren, McIsaac, Mastrosimone, Johansson. The only one I am lukewarm on was Tuomisto because he seems like such a massive project to take on with other players I liked available on the board. He and his staff have done well to get players that seem to have NHL futures.

 

[HisNoodliness]

2018 and 2019 players in the top 2 rounds I have liked quite a bit. Zadina, Seider, Veleno, Berggren, McIsaac, Mastrosimone, Johansson. The only one I am lukewarm on was Tuomisto because he seems like such a massive project to take on with other players I liked available on the board. He and his staff have done well to get players that seem to have NHL futures.

Agreed, I've liked his picks lately. But even with picks I like, hearing Wright talk about them would almost make me like them less. I'd be thinking "wow this guy has this great skill and the production is good and I like his skating etc" then Wright would talk about how good his size and character is, being hard to play against etc. We just have very different visions, even of players we both like.

 

[Ricelund]

One example that has been mentioned is Alexander Edler. Hakan liked him and it sounds like we were prepared to pick him but Vancouver drafted him before we picked.

For whatever reason Hakan was very rarely given top 50 picks. I think Holland leaned very heavily on his NA scouts plus they likely got to see those guys much more given the geographical proximity and that made Holland comfortable.

I'm pretty sure the story is Vancouver somehow caught wind that Detroit wanted Edler and they took him on that basis. The Wings ended up taking Franzen (also a Hakan find) six picks later at #97.

 

[Henkka]

I'm pretty sure the story is Vancouver somehow caught wind that Detroit wanted Edler and they took him on that basis. The Wings ended up taking Franzen (also a Hakan find) six picks later at #97.

That's still quite a nice story, because only player taken after #91 overall Alex Edler, who became better NHLr, was pretty much Johan Franzen.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Agreed, I've liked his picks lately. But even with picks I like, hearing Wright talk about them would almost make me like them less. I'd be thinking "wow this guy has this great skill and the production is good and I like his skating etc" then Wright would talk about how good his size and character is, being hard to play against etc. We just have very different visions, even of players we both like.

The size is a tiresome conversation point, but I don't think you can undervalue the importance of character and plays a difficult game. Look at two of the fan favorites right now. Larkin and Bertuzzi have always been character and compete level guys. In fact, I think the reason they've developed their skills the way they have is largely tied to their character.

I think the physical abilities tend to speak for themselves, but it would definitely be appreciated if he would have highlighted a skill and say "we really wanted to address X, and we think that this player can do that because Y."

 

[Frk It]

The size is a tiresome conversation point, but I don't think you can undervalue the importance of character and plays a difficult game. Look at two of the fan favorites right now. Larkin and Bertuzzi have always been character and compete level guys. In fact, I think the reason they've developed their skills the way they have is largely tied to their character.

I think the physical abilities tend to speak for themselves, but it would definitely be appreciated if he would have highlighted a skill and say "we really wanted to address X, and we think that this player can do that because Y."

I think it was a Bill Belichick quote that says “talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling” or something to that effect.

Interesting way to look at things.

Agreed, I've liked his picks lately. But even with picks I like, hearing Wright talk about them would almost make me like them less. I'd be thinking "wow this guy has this great skill and the production is good and I like his skating etc" then Wright would talk about how good his size and character is, being hard to play against etc. We just have very different visions, even of players we both like.

That’s always been where I struggle with him too. I guess he just might be better at evaluating players than articulating himself. Draper seems to be pretty good at both.

 

[lhsgolf19]

There it is... Draper takes his place... Love it!

 

[Hen Kolland]

There it is... Draper takes his place... Love it!

This is a good move. I've liked the comments Draper has had over the years about the young players; he seems to be very forward thinking. I think Draper and Horcoff directing the ship, we could have a pretty dynamic amateur talent program from recognition to acquisition to development.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

This is a good move. I've liked the comments Draper has had over the years about the young players; he seems to be very forward thinking. I think Draper and Horcoff directing the ship, we could have a pretty dynamic amateur talent program from recognition to acquisition to development.

This. Draper seems to have a sharp eye in scouting amateurs from what I've seen him talk in interviews. I like the things he looks for in players.

 

[lhsgolf19]