Speculation: Opening Night Lines?

[Barry Amsterdam]

In all seriousness i’m all for
Raymond Larkin Zadina
Fabbri Suter Bertuzzi

to start the year

 

[Revenge of Gru]

So I take it you don't watch the Lions, lol.

I actually quit watching the NFL because of the Lions, but I've lived through one rebuild (the Caps), I can handle another. I'm more disappointed with the way Francis built the Kraken, needs a rebuild already.

I lived through the rebuild that brought us Steve Yzerman. It took 14 years after his arrival to win the cup. We have a long, long way to go. Personally I think Yzerman has already fallen behind schedule. The initial core pieces are ageing out of window viability and we haven't even acquired a top line yet.

 

[Gniwder]

I lived through the rebuild that brought us Steve Yzerman. It took 14 years after his arrival to win the cup. We have a long, long way to go. Personally I think Yzerman has already fallen behind schedule. The initial core pieces are ageing out of window viability and we haven't even acquired a top line yet.

I don't think he ever considered them a core. You don't win a Cup with first line of Bert/Larkin/Mantha and Hronek on the top pair. 1C IS the core, which means we're in for a long wait. It is what it is.

You act as if 14 years is a long time, lol. I watched the Caps for 40 before they won the Cup.

 

[DetroitRed]

The four goal comeback against Chicago, largely orchestrated by Raymond and Seider, I find impressive.

Over all, also pretty impressed by Yzerman's new crew in general, Leddy, Suter, etc..

I would say Zadina hasn't earned a spot on the top line yet based on the preseason. I mean, considering the performances of others in comparison.

You do have to take account his experience, but I think Larks likes to play with Bert. They are certainly lacking in forward depth with Vrana, Bertuzzi and Rasmussen out, but I don't assume things naturally default to Zadina.

Fabbri-Larkin-Raymond seems like a nice option. Or Bertuzzi-Larkin-Raymond. Or even Bertuzzi/Fabbri-Larkin-Suter. Right now, I feel like there are better options and Zadina is the guy who has to change that.

 

[Henkka]

Blashil said about kids have to be significantly better than older players to play in Detroit. Was he talking about Raymond or Veleno?
I didn't watch game , just after game press conference

Based on my feeliings, what I've seen as eye-testing the games, looking on some advanced stats, and how the waiver-things and roster spots typically go, I think the opening-night roster goes like this.

Doing well and locked anyways on the Roster -group:

1. Larkin, has been ok, nothing special, but seems to be ready for the new season.
2. Fabbri, maybe the best player of the pre-season, imo has solidified his spot on the 1st line with Larkin.
3. Bertuzzi, has had some injury, but seems to fine for the opener, completes the 1st line with his dirty work.
-----------------

4. Suter, great find from Yzerman, has nice IQ for the game, does more things than I never expected. There's really no competition for the 2nd line Center spot.

5. Erne, will surely find a middle6 role for either 2nd or 3rd line. Could even be 2nd line "bertuzzi" to do the dirty work and complete a line. Or is that wrecking ball at more physical 3rd line.

6. Zadina, imo, has been struggling at even strength, but really comes alive on the PP. He'll remind me a bit of young Mikael Granlund, who had some speed concerns on his early career, but after some multiple years of seasonin finally did get over of those concerns. It's nothing but speed-related. Many times he will make the greatest assist of the game for a goal. Like to send a guy on a breakaway etc. The skill flashes are there. Many times makes the greatest play of the game. But is still struggling. It's a long road. Someho I have already forgotten to hope he becomes any kind of sniper, he doesn't seem to be that guy at all. But I see the nice playmaker in him. Maybe he becomes a versatile guy like Ondrej Palat at Tampa, until he'll get that speed and skating figured out. I don't see a play driver in him, bu I see acomplimentary second piece, when we'll get more play drivers like Raymond.

7. Mitchell Stephens, what a great skating this guy has. Reminds me of young Darren Helm and he will be lock to take that 4th line center spot. The battle for a spot has been mostly against Chase Pearson, and there's nothing kind of wrong in Pearson, but Stephens has just so much more to give. Breakaways, has scored, etc. The point pontial is much higher as being a Bottom6 guy. Also advanced stats favor Stephens vs. Pearson, drastically. I could see Pearson as Stephens' winger like it was last night, if there are guys missing a lot from the roster.

Those are the guys who I see locks on the opening night roster

Fabbri - Larkin - Bertuzzi
Zadina - Suter - X
Erne - X - X
X - Stephens - X

Then for the special cases.

8. Lucas Raymond, seems to be a real deal. Plays like a matured man thanks to seasoning at Frölunda. No real reason to go AHL, has overtaken so many NHL-forwards at this pre-season. Runs the PP very dangerously and thriwes also ES on advanced stats. He hasn't been yet scored against at pre-season. Is a clear add on this team and it's old weaknesses. Still there's a possibility to send him as waiver-free ELC guy, but I'm veru spectical now to see that happen. Thanks to Vrana injury, he'll get the spot on 2nd line. Even if Vrana would be heatlhy, there would be strong case still for Raymond to be at 2nd line, pushing Zadina lower in the charts. He is that good.

 

[Henkka]

9. Joe Veleno. I think he is on the team, thanks to injuries for other players. He is mostly the replacement for Rasmussen, who has been sidelined and will be some time. Fills a Center need. Also if Rasmussen is returning soon, those BErtuzzi missing Canada games will open more spots and I think think Rasmussen comes in that time, and Veleno stays there. Veleno's effort has been very borderline, and with 100% heatlhy roster he would see time at Griffins roster. But NHL is never 100% healthy and there you go. Raymond overlapped him already as prospect, but is the 2nd guy of that promising Raymond, Veleno, Berggren -group to be planned on the roster, in that order.

And when trying to find that last guy to fill our Top9 offence, I can really take look on Bobby Ryan, who has looked pretty good. But, this slot goes to Sam Gagner. He has been even better.

10. Sam Gagner. I think many hasn't noticed how great he has played. One of the best in advanced stats, but also has some usage defensively, on PK. Bobby Ryan doesn't offer this, when we are bit short of PK players. But they both give equally effective offensive play, and I don't think we need to sign Ryan for a contract. It would nee bigger injury mess. Vrana out, Rasmussen out and Bertuzzi temporarily off from Canada games, that's not enough need to sign Ryan, imo. We'll see

So here we are with the Top10 offence:

Fabbri - Larkin - Bertuzzi
Zadina - Suter - Raymond
Erne - Veleno - Gagner
X - Stephens - X

Still, nothing against Zadina, but just would like to see more compele lines with roles, as swapping Zarina end Eene.
That 2nd line doesn't have a physical player, and 3rd line would be more skilled with Zadina. But either ways, I would go with those guys, not matter how they are mixed up.

11. Namestnikov, he hasn't impressed at pre-season, but still, when comparing to other options available, he will bring a best option to fill the 4th line. Also is a PK guy. Could maybe be the 1st PK pairing with Stephens.

12. This looks like a coin flip between Rowney and Smith. Both have been pretty bad. I could see maybe Pearson making a case to fill the 4th line, but we can't carry more than 13 forwards. If Rowney is send to AHL, then I could see Pearson in here, before Smith. He has been least bad of these three options. But it will be some of those three guys. I'll make a hot take for Pearson and send Rowney to AHL. Smith stays up, because there's the bigger risk to lose a young guy on waivers. Rowney should pass easier.

Fabbri - Larkin - Bertuzzi
Zadina - Suter - Raymond
Erne - Veleno - Gagner
Pearson - Stephens - Namestnikov
(Smith)
(Rowney, waived)
Vrana - injured
Rasmussen - injured

When Rasmussen will come back, Pearson goes back to AHL (if no more other injuries) and some tweak will happen at the Bottom6. Also, when Bertuzzi is sidelined, Givani Smith jumps in to 4th line, and somebody, why not Rasmussen, will get promoted to top line, who knows? But it kind of has to be same kind of grinder guy. Maybe Erne is an option too.

***

Defence was kind of set in stone already before the pre-season. There has been no injuries which would change the mix. Also the guys have contributed, almost all, like expected.

DeKeyser - Hronek
Leddy - Seider
Staal - Stecher

That should be the starting Top6. Osterle and Lindström stay sidelined as extra guys, giving nice options. Oesterle is a puckmoving skill guy and Lindström more defensive replacement for rotation/injuries.

Only change in defence I would like to see, would be put Seider play with some other guy than Leddy. To let him play more with the puck and have one good puckmiving defencemen is eash pair (Hronek, Leddy, Seider). Let all those carry their own pair with their skill, with more defensive guy.

DeKeyser will fit with either Hronek or Seider.
Staal will fit with either Hronek or Seider.
Leddy will fit mostly with Stecher (or Lindström)

Think it would go:
DeKeyser - Hronek
Leddy - Stecher
Staal - Seider
or
Staal - Hronek
DeKeyser - Seider
Leddy - Stecher


Either way, we finally have some options. There's also no 1st or 3rd pair, all can used quite equally. There's no weak pair.

***

Greiss
Nedeljkovic

Goalies are set.1A and 1B is the plan, and real games will show which one will steal the starter spot.

13+8+2 roster will stay up.

What comes to Jonatan Berggren, he has kind of impressed, but there's no spots for him at Top9 offence. His injury happened at bad time, but he could have nice role at Grand Rapids to shine. He is also one of the reasons, why we don't need to sign Bobby Ryan. If we need depth guys for Top3 lines, Berggren is ready waiting in AHL.

Hirose, Barber, Witkowski, Elson, Criscuolo - all are Griffins guys and don't see them in NHL long-term. Could have special case games here and there.

 

[Mister Ed]

Veleno has made a strong case to start in the NHL with his solid play.

At this point, Hirose, Barber, Witkowski, Elson, Criscuolo are going to GR, as should Rowney.

Brattstrom has impressed me, too - he's going to be a great callup in case of emergencies.

 

[Bench]

Brattstrom has impressed me, too - he's going to be a great callup in case of emergencies.

I'm excited to see how he does in GR this year. It's nice to see the goalie pool start to look decent again.

 

[RedWingzz]

I'd love to somehow see Raymond, Ryan and JV on the opening night roster, but I think this is wishful thinking.

 

[redwings8831]

Gagner does not deserve a top 9 spot over Ryan.

 

[Henkka]

Gagner does not deserve a top 9 spot over Ryan.

Yes he does, because we don't have guys on the penalty kill, if you just go offense-first. Last season Gagner scored 7+8 and -4, when Ryan was 7+7 and -14.

This Ryan overhype and overbelief is just non-sense.

When our guys like Rasmussen and Vrana come back, somebody has to go to 4th line. Gagner can do that, Ryan can't do that. He is useless there + when we need guys for special teams.

 

[GMR]

How long is Rasmussen injured?

 

[Bench]

How long is Rasmussen injured?

Early this week Blashill said it was "a little tweak" and it wasn't expected to be a long-term injury.

 

[deca guard]

Yes he does, because we don't have guys on the penalty kill, if you just go offense-first. Last season Gagner scored 7+8 and -4, when Ryan was 7+7 and -14.

This Ryan overhype and overbelief is just non-sense.

When our guys like Rasmussen and Vrana come back, somebody has to go to 4th line. Gagner can do that, Ryan can't do that. He is useless there + when we need guys for special teams.

vrana a long way away plus injuries will happen . mean while ryans around to teach young guys how to generate offense at the nhl level .
there to teach razz - veleno - raymond - zadina - etc . the guys an absolute o zone ace , and the way he thinks / functions on the pp is important
lessons for the young guys that blash n crew cant teach in practice . who else on this roster are the young guys going to feed off of and learn from gagne ? be serious . its like that way back habs great once said '' hockey is leadership , leadership , leadership'' . and thats what ryan does on the rink which is waaaaaaaay more effective than coaches barking from the bench . you notice ryan clicking with raymond , and others . that mode of high iq play making is being seen by seider , hronek , raymond , zadina , etc . its like theyre all in the same classroom of a proffesor learning the same philosophy which theyll carry forward with them in their redwing careers . i want ryan here teaching just like yzerman , lirionov , robataille , hull , lidstrom , hull , shannahan , etc taught the twins back in 2002

 

[19 for president]

I'm leaning towards:

Bert-Larkin-Raymond
Fabbri-Suter-Zadina
Erne-Ras-Ryan
Smith-Stephens-Gagner
Namestikov

*if Ras is still hurt Veleno slides in.
*Could see Namestikov get waived and Smith used as the 13th
*Gagner makes the team as a PKer

Alt if Namestikov is waived

Bert-Larkin- Raymond
Fabbri-Suter-Zadina
Veleno-Ras-Ryan
Erne-Stephens- Gagner
Smith

D & goalie pretty much set:

DDK- Hronek
Leddy- Seider
Stetcher-Staal
Lindstrom
Oesterle

Greiss
Ned

 

[deca guard]

I'm leaning towards:

Bert-Larkin-Raymond
Fabbri-Suter-Zadina
Erne-Ras-Ryan
Smith-Stephens-Gagner
Namestikov

*if Ras is still hurt Veleno slides in.
*Could see Namestikov get waived and Smith used as the 13th
*Gagner makes the team as a PKer

Alt if Namestikov is waived

Bert-Larkin- Raymond
Fabbri-Suter-Zadina
Veleno-Ras-Ryan
Erne-Stephens- Gagner
Smith

D & goalie pretty much set:

DDK- Hronek
Leddy- Seider
Stetcher-Staal
Lindstrom
Oesterle

Greiss
Ned

like that 3 line with ryan teaching razz n ernie

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I'm leaning towards:

Bert-Larkin-Raymond
Fabbri-Suter-Zadina
Erne-Ras-Ryan
Smith-Stephens-Gagner
Namestikov

*if Ras is still hurt Veleno slides in.
*Could see Namestikov get waived and Smith used as the 13th
*Gagner makes the team as a PKer

Alt if Namestikov is waived

Bert-Larkin- Raymond
Fabbri-Suter-Zadina
Veleno-Ras-Ryan
Erne-Stephens- Gagner
Smith

D & goalie pretty much set:

DDK- Hronek
Leddy- Seider
Stetcher-Staal
Lindstrom
Oesterle

Greiss
Ned

Gagner should be 13th forward over smith. Smith is young and will at least bring physicality to the fourth line.

 

[Henkka]

vrana a long way away plus injuries will happen . mean while ryans around to teach young guys how to generate offense at the nhl level .

Quite sure we won't need any BobbyRyan's to teach guys like Lucas Raymond how to create offense.

More of, it looked like Raymond just came in and is currently teaching all our former veteran forwards how to create offence.

And there's already Gagner who can teach how to be a pro. that's different thing. Don't know has Ryan ever been a good pro. An alcoholic, yes.

There's no need to teach offence. Only need is for pro habits. Ryan is just plugging a pre-season hole, when you need deep rosters.

 

[deca guard]

Quite sure we won't need any BobbyRyan's to teach guys like Lucas Raymond how to create offense.

More of, it looked like Raymond just came in and is currently teaching all our former veteran forwards how to create offence.

And there's already Gagner who can teach how to be a pro. that's different thing. Don't know has Ryan ever been a good pro. An alcoholic, yes.

There's no need to teach offence. Only need is for pro habits. Ryan is just plugging a pre-season hole, when you need deep rosters.

were in disagreement and we shall let yzerman be the judge

 

[ricky0034]

it amazes me how Bobby Ryan scoring a couple goals at the start of the season last year has some people still thinking he's a good player a year later

talk about first impressions setting opinions in stone

 

[MBH]

My lines to start:

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Zadina
Fabbri-Suter-Raymond
Rasmussen-Veleno-Erne
Namestnikov-Stephens-Gagner
(Smith/Rowney)
-
EDIT
doubled bertuzzi up.

If Zadina isn't scoring, switch him and Raymond.

 

[ridilon]

In all seriousness i’m all for
Raymond Larkin Zadina
Fabbri Suter Bertuzzi

to start the year

Sadly I fear the DRW will play fewer than 20 games with all 6.

 

[ridilon]

My lines to start:

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Zadina
Bertuzzi-Suter-Raymond
Fabbri-Veleno-Erne
Namestnikov-Stephens-Rasmussen
(Smith/Gagner)
*Rowney waivered

This won't happen.

Barring injury - Veleno will be sent to GR.
Rasmussen back to C. Rowney will play instead of Smith. Gagner might play over someone, too, for PK duties.

Did they clone Bert?

 

[MBH]

it amazes me how Bobby Ryan scoring a couple goals at the start of the season last year has some people still thinking he's a good player a year later

talk about first impressions setting opinions in stone

Jimmy Howard did this.
Started strong every year.
By December he was toast, whether it was conditioning or injuries or whatever.
Yet all year, people talked about him like he was that guy with a .935 sv percentage in October.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

it amazes me how Bobby Ryan scoring a couple goals at the start of the season last year has some people still thinking he's a good player a year later

talk about first impressions setting opinions in stone

He is still a good player