WJC: Open Letter To Canadian Hockey Fans

[Mehar]

I've never heard a Canadian say in person that they wanted fewer teams in order to avoid blowouts. You see it online sometimes but people love to complain online. If the number of teams was reduced we'd be hearing about how unfair it is that the weaker teams never have a chance to even play.

I absolutely agree with this. The majority of Canadian hockey fans never say they wanted fewer teams in order to avoid blowouts. Of course, you have a tiny minority to say these things, but you can say that about other hockey fans also. Wrong to generalize all Canadians who feel this way.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Had I not commented on this post, people would naturally assume that a majority of Canadians are dissatisfied with the tournament and want the weaker countries out.

Thank the heavens you responded, we wouldn't want all the people to think all Canadians think one way. If you didn't respond, all the people would have......

If it seems like that sentence doesn't make sense, good.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Specific to the OP. I focus on narrative in spoken word or writing. What you wrote is not just a letter. Something of this nature should probably be written as an Essay. At least inasmuch as your primary thoughts should be expressed early in the writing, and indeed they are. But if reading this as an essay, vs a letter its problematic, because I have trouble getting beyond this early paragraph;

"However, each year. it also brings out the bad side of a few people. It’s especially true for a few Canadians, who feels an entitlement towards the whole tournament. Their view on nations like Denmark, Austria, Germany, and Switzerland is that they are nations that bring nothing to the tournament and only tarnish the reputation of the Juniors since they aren’t on the level of the very best nations."

The above is harshly worded to those Canadians and from the outset of your letter it prevents it from making any impact with those alleged Canadians, rather, it targets them and makes unkind assumptions about them. Even suggesting that they are bad people. Which I suppose wasn't your cognitive intent in writing that. Perhaps you don't write naturally in English. I don't know.

Sorry, but that is an ineffective letter, or appeal, and your choice of how you conveyed that paragraph renders your letter ineffectual. An appeal to just the collective love of the game, without singling out any particular group, or nations fans, would be better received. just my feedback.

 

[Anardil]

Nothing to do with how many teams make the cut, but having the WJC in Europe more often would likely mean European countries doing better overall.

I don't know the politics or rationale of why it is in Canada so often, but at the very least countries like Slovakia, Sweden and Germany deserve to be the home team a few times every century.

The answer is simple: $$$. I have watched this tourney every year that TSN has broadcasted it. When it is held in Europe, if the host country isn't playing, the arena is mostly empty, whereas, when in Canada, most games are filled almost to capacity.

 

[Albatros]

Another look.

A lot of comparisons here between Soccer World Cup and Hockey. Again I love that the WC features a lot of teams, albeit I was fine sticking with around 24, I think the addition of more has subtracted from the tournament. 32 teams seemed like a lot and impacted the quality of matches, qualifying matches, and further influences how lucky teams could be in the draw.

Back in the day with 24 teams there were issues with the format that the expansion to 32 solved. Six groups of four needed to provide enough teams for a round of 16, which meant that four of the third-placed teams advanced as well. Often there was one weak team in the group and so top teams could expect to advance almost automatically. After the expansion to 32 that ironically hasn't been the case anymore.

 

[CherryToke]

This tourny is almost always boring for me until the medal rounds but I realize there isn't much that can be done about it. I'd prefer the focus to be on extending the playoff round somehow.

 

[GermanNuck]

Expand to 12 teams, have 4 groups with 3 teams each, first 2 advance, last one go into relegation playoffs.

Means less pre-medal round games, upsets still possible, more exposure for smaller hockey nations and also more meaningful games for smaller nations.

 

[Inf4mous0ne]

1) I am addressing the original author and anyone else that believes the entire nation of Canada needed an open letter because of something Cox said

2) There are 100s of people who post irrelevant comments about a wide range of topics online, why did this require an open letter to Canadian hockey fans?

3) I’m only responding to people who are replying to my comments, but I am more than happy to stop commenting on this thread.


This will be my last post in this thread because I can see that no meaningful discussion will come out of it. Had I not commented on this post, people would naturally assume that a majority of Canadians are dissatisfied with the tournament and want the weaker countries out. That is the potential damage of having click bait articles like this, so of course I am going to get “pissy” when I see someone trying to take advantage of casual hockey fans that don’t know better.

I love chatting with fans of the weaker teams to learn about their unique/different style of play and upcoming prospects I should look out for. This tournament is about bringing people together, yet this article is only furthering that separation. Imagine a random Slovakian fan reading this article, their first impression will be that a large majority of Canadian fans are just a bunch of bullies that want Slovakia out of the tournament.

But again, this is my last post in this thread because my only intention was to determine whether this article had any merit. That question has been answered with the Cox tweet, so I will respectfully back out of this discussion now.

I understand your sentiment, and why you would feel defensive. Just thought you were being a bit hard on the OP (and not giving any credence to his posts/perspectives).

I'm also Canadian and love the tournament, and especially enjoy seeing teams/players from various countries compete. But I think it's important to not overreact to criticisms or other perspectives about the tournament, especially from people who are obviously earnest in their love for the same tournament and wish it to be successful.

My perspective is, I'm less concerned about how a casual fan will view Canadian hockey fans because of this article. I'm more concerned that fans from smaller hockey nations are worried that this is a pervasive thought among us, and that feel they need to defend their place in the tournament. Like most discussions, better to understand and respond to someone's perspective than to dismiss and criticize it.

Enjoy the rest of the tournament!

Expand to 12 teams, have 4 groups with 3 teams each, first 2 advance, last one go into relegation playoffs.

Means less pre-medal round games, upsets still possible, more exposure for smaller hockey nations and also more meaningful games for smaller nations.

I'd honestly be open to that I think. Be interesting to try it out at least.

 

[Czechboy]

Another look.

A lot of comparisons here between Soccer World Cup and Hockey. Again I love that the WC features a lot of teams, albeit I was fine sticking with around 24, I think the addition of more has subtracted from the tournament. 32 teams seemed like a lot and impacted the quality of matches, qualifying matches, and further influences how lucky teams could be in the draw. Expanding it to 48 teams I think we're bound to hear a lot of "too many teams" argument.

But the sports and scorelines are innately different. You rarely see a team scoring 16 or 18 goals in a game in Soccer, or in the World Cup. Because of the amount of goals scored and that Scoring 7 or more (blowouts) are so much more common in hockey, and the scorelines so blown up, its natural to get disengaged from some games.

I mean as a Canadian fan I love to See Canada in the World Cup, and have Cherished those games. But there is a profound difference between losing a match 2-0, where hypothetically a game could still be thought to be in contention, vs losing a game 12-0 in hockey. just saying.

Soccer is very different animal.. I just googled the nations in bottom 40

Those are all good teams. None of them would get blown out 20-0 by

Those top 7 would be favorites but I doubt you'd even see a 5-0 score.

Now hockey has their top 5 which are the only nations with any hope of Gold.

Here is the bottom 40 in hockey:

I can't even picture what those Canada vs Thailand games would look like.

 

[majormajor]

I am well aware of who they are, and their opinions do not reflect Canada whatsoever. You took the displeasure from a few disgruntled individuals to create some fake vendetta that Canadians are displeased with the talent level in the tournament.



No, we do not have a legitimate issue here. You are just trying to create one to generate more clicks. I’m sure you had a lot of great content in your article, but you felt that trying to get an entire nation’s sympathy was more important.

The only issue here is that you seem to be part of the problem. Why are you displeased about the blowouts? Forget about the score and enjoy the game and how important it is to every kid on the ice.

I didn't write an article.

I actually can't tell who you are referring to.

And if you don't think many people were displeased with the blowouts, do a little more digging. There's plenty on the boards, on twitter, etc... (how about read this thread!)

There is a problem with blowouts and at the same time we have to make sure that aspirational clubs have a chance to go all the way. Both are legit. That's why I worked on the proposal I put on the first page of this thread. I think it fixes the issue.

 

[golfortennis]

Soccer is very different animal.. I just googled the nations in bottom 40

View attachment 381770

Those are all good teams. None of them would get blown out 20-0 by

View attachment 381771

Those top 7 would be favorites but I doubt you'd even see a 5-0 score.

Now hockey has their top 5 which are the only nations with any hope of Gold.

Here is the bottom 40 in hockey:

View attachment 381774

I can't even picture what those Canada vs Thailand games would look like.

Canada's women were criticized for beating Slovakia's women 18-0 at the 2010 Olympics. Running up the score or some such other.

What few people were aware of was that in qualifying, Slovakia had defeated Bulgaria by the very sportswomanlike score of 82-0.

Thinking Canada vs Thailand would be similar.

 

[kaiser matias]

Soccer is very different animal.. I just googled the nations in bottom 40

View attachment 381770

Those are all good teams. None of them would get blown out 20-0 by

View attachment 381771

Those top 7 would be favorites but I doubt you'd even see a 5-0 score.

Now hockey has their top 5 which are the only nations with any hope of Gold.

Here is the bottom 40 in hockey:

View attachment 381774

I can't even picture what those Canada vs Thailand games would look like.

The problem there is that there are only 50 countries that play hockey (52 played in the 2019 World Championships; 42 at the 2019 World Juniors), while some 200 play football. So to get a more reasonable comparison one should scale it down, in this case by a factor of 4 (as that is how many more multiples play football). This would mean looking at the those roughly in 10th place, which would be teams like Austria, Belarus, Latvia, Kazakhstan, Norway, and Denmark.

All of those teams have played at the top level of the World Juniors in the past decade, and while they were clearly not equal to the top teams, some of them did manage to stay there for more than one year. At the same time it would not be unexpected to see them all put up a 10 goal loss against Canada, and indeed some of them did that, too.

But there is definitely a wide discrepancy in the talent in hockey, but at least in the Division IA level (where these teams would have played this year), it is getting very competitive, and anyone of them can be expected to move up. They are all slowly getting better, too, and are clearly above the Division IB level (which had Estonia, France, Japan, Poland, Slovenia, and Ukraine scheduled this year), and are showing that they can at least put up against the lower-ranked top level teams (like Switzerland, Slovakia, Germany). It takes time, but hopefully they keep moving in this direction, as it will make the tournament better.

 

[El Travo]

I hardly watch the world juniors until the medal games or if it's two of the big countries playing. It's boring watching Canada spank their way through the round-robin. I hate watching games where the shot total is 40-2 after the 2nd period. I'd love to see a Team Europe in the tournament. If just being part of the tournament is enough for these kids then fine, but it's boring as f*** watching 7-0 blowouts being the norm in a tournament which is supposed to showcase the best u20's.

 

[Auston Marlander]

I wrote an open letter to all Canadian hockey fans. Just like you, Europeans from smaller hockey nations love the World Juniors. It's an amazing tournament to watch and in its current structure, it helps the entire hockey world. Even if it comes at the price of a blowout from time to time. So to those wanting to stop the blowouts by removing teams from the juniors or recreate Team Europe. Please take a second to read the perspective of someone from a nation that isn't fighting for gold, but something completely different and let me know what you think of it. Dear Canadian Hockey Fans

Most of the people saying The want less teams are not Canadian, and only come out of the woodwork after Canada blows a team out of the water.

I would love this to be a 12 or 16 team tournament if there was the competition for the 2nd tier teams. Unfortunately the teams that Germany would blow out of the water wouldnt be able to even compete with the big 5. So what we have now works.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Nothing to do with how many teams make the cut, but having the WJC in Europe more often would likely mean European countries doing better overall.

I don't know the politics or rationale of why it is in Canada so often, but at the very least countries like Slovakia, Sweden and Germany deserve to be the home team a few times every century.

Because Canada actually sells out the games (obviously during non-Covid tournaments). If European hosts sold as many tickets as Canada does to all the tournament games, it would be held in Europe way more often.

 

[1OApick]

Germany and Switzerland and Denmark have got so much better over the past 15 years. Even the best player on world is German. Growing the game comes from international tournaments not necessarily from NHL hockey.

Commercial hockey cannot ever surpass the Olympics and national tournaments in my mind eventhough I love NHL hockey too.

We had pretty good night at 2016 WJC semis at Helsinki. All canadians I’ve met been so fun but these guys we met at Helsinki had true swagger. They were so sure about the team that they booked trip only for the semis and finals.

 

[golfortennis]

Because Canada actually sells out the games (obviously during non-Covid tournaments). If European hosts sold as many tickets as Canada does to all the tournament games, it would be held in Europe way more often.

I notice how TSN never publicizes what they pay for the TV rights, but I think it is not just tickets sold. I doubt the broadcasters in Europe pony up anywhere near the same amount of money.

 

[ScaredStreit]

You know what's worse than being blown out 15-2? Not being able to play the game.

 

[Zegras Zebra]

Us Canadians do have the tendency to be rather arrogant when it comes to our national hockey teams. We do expect our teams to win every tournament they compete in, and it may be a bit harsh to put so much pressure on a group of teenagers but it's what they signed up for. I can't speak for other countries but I imagine Russia, the U.S.A., Sweden and Finland have high expectations as well, but probably not to the same extent. Our expectations for hockey are probably similar to the United States in basketball, New Zealand in rugby, and about a dozen countries for football (soccer).

When it comes to the mid-tier and lower countries I think most Canadians realize they are happy to be there. They don't have massive expectations, or a country that is going to be disappointed in them if they lose to Canada 16-0. The opportunity to represent their country on the highest level against the best players at that age group is an honor that most players will never have the chance to accomplish. It is the highlight of many of their hockey careers. Many won't play in the NHL or professionally. In the future they will tell their grandchildren about how they played against Player X, Y, Z from Canada, Player A, B, C from the U.S.A, etc. The fact that some people feel the need to take this experience away from these players in the name of entertainment is just flat out wrong. A couple of 10+ goal wins is not enough to change the number of teams from 10 to 8 or 6. Making the tournament more exclusive prevents the smaller hockey nations from gaining traction and becoming a better hockey nation. If it were a 8 team tournament we wouldn't have had seen Tim Stutzle and Germany make the quarterfinals, and other great moments where the smaller nations topple a larger one.

Most importantly if we reduced the number of teams it hurts the of growth of the game. The more exclusive we make the World Juniors, the less opportunities countries have of being exposed to the game and it will never become more popular. Hopefully one day Canadians will think "Oh F! We have to play Denmark! We can lose that game!" That never happens if we reduce the number of teams in the World Junior. Honestly I would be in more favour of expanding the tournament to 12 teams than reducing the number of teams. Its the best way to improve international hockey in the long run, despite the occasional blowout.

 

[Three On Zero]

I wrote an open letter to all Canadian hockey fans. Just like you, Europeans from smaller hockey nations love the World Juniors. It's an amazing tournament to watch and in its current structure, it helps the entire hockey world. Even if it comes at the price of a blowout from time to time. So to those wanting to stop the blowouts by removing teams from the juniors or recreate Team Europe. Please take a second to read the perspective of someone from a nation that isn't fighting for gold, but something completely different and let me know what you think of it. Dear Canadian Hockey Fans

When I was younger I was lucky enough to make it onto the U16 summer Olympics basketball team. The passion and drive that I had as well as the sense of accomplishment just from knowing I was good enough to make that team was a high I will probably never experience again. These kids may not be the best, These kids may get completely blown out when facing the top tier teams. But that fact they get to represent their country means a hell of a lot to them. Whether they win or lose these kids deserve to be in this tournament. These kids representing their country is exactly how you build the sport in those countries.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Seems misguided. I don't know anyone that doesn't want Germany, Denmark, Austria and Switzerland in the tournament. In fact, I wish there were even more teams. How much fun would this tournament be if it was just Canada, the US, Russia, Czech Rep, Sweden and Finland? Wouldn't be worth watching. The author of that open letter is completely right except for one thing: no one is looking down their nose at you. It makes Canadians super happy to think other nations love the sport we love. Can't wait for the day we look up to Denmark and wish we were as good as them at hockey.

 

[Frederik95]

I've been waiting for this since The Mighty Ducks 2.

Great article OP. From what i've understood, Danish league is getting better which is great. Quite a few Finnish players there and they all are saying that infrastructure is good and there are passionate fans.

Many times it's a chain reaction. For example Finland had Kurri, who was idolized by Selänne and pretty much every young hockey player since had him as their idol. And now we have new idols in Barkov/Heiskanen/Aho etc. whom these young kids look up to.

Young Danish players needs more heroes, Ehlers is great but couple more would help. Also i'm sure that Ehlers looked up to Nielsen and thought that he can do it aswell, make it to the NHL.

Ehlers absolutely looked up to Frans Nielsen, but also his dad Heinz Ehlers who was Denmarks best player before Nielsen, and was close to making the NHL but just didnt make it.
About the league, its getting better and hopefully once Covid is over, then we can see it stay strong and with some good players from Finland and so on helping the danish players and talents grow.

 

[Frederik95]

the linked article has a section labelled " winning isnt everything"
What's the purpose, the raison detre, of sporting competitions ?

if the idea is that the more people who play the better, then let's go with that. let's get israel and botswana and new zeland in there against traditional hockey powers, because nothing grows the game like getting repeatedly and assuredly plastered where losing 16-1 would look like an accomplishment.

The IIHF ALREADY excludes nations from competing, nations that have no reasonable chance of winning. Arguing where that line should be isnt arrogance. Hey if we got some of those countries into to the tournament, the current weak sisters could beat up on THEM as well to help grow the game!

" hey we don't stand a chance against canada but we sure put the boots to el salvador!"

Im not saying winning isnt important. It is. However for the smaller nations something else is important as well and if you ask me more important. Its growing the game, so that eventually nations that currently has no chance of beating Canada, might have a shot in 30 years. Building for the future is more important than the now imo, and that was the meaning of that headline. Not to say that winning isnt important since it helps grow the game as well. Heck a win over Canada would send the Danish program into overdrive, so winning matters. Its just second to growing the game

 

[Frederik95]

Yea... not many people in North Europe watch the kid hockey. Not sure which countries are you referring to?

Denmark and Norway as the nothern nations. More centeal european its Austria, Switzerland, Slovakia, Lativa and Germany.
While not all is watching kids hockey, the first televised game in 25 years in Denmark was the from the Juniors so clearly there is some following and demand for it in those countries

 

[WaW]

Did you watch other than team Canada's matches?

The system we have for groups right now is the most fair we can have. Teams have earned their spot in either group.

The system is there to keep tournament fair and competitive, not to give "better matches to watch".

Imagine seeing what I suggested and not thinking the goal is to make it "fair and competitive." Wow.

Pretty classic strawman, tbh.