I just looked it up…the Panthers this year are spending more than $30 million on players than the Miami Marlins. The teams at the bottom of MLB are criminal.
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I have no problem with not doing a thing about the state taxes.
I think people are trying too hard to discredit these teams for the moves they make and they also forget how bad they were at times which helped lay the foundation for the teams that came later.
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yeah as long as different teams win over the years I'm fine with it too, but if we start seeing Florida's vs Texas in the finals every year, then who knows??? I'm hoping the Oil win this year just to change things up...
devilsblood
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Panarin wanted to play in NYC, but then signed a huge deal. Similar to Tavares in Toronto, sure he wanted to play there but there is no hometown discount going on.
Tkachuk wanted to play in Florida and signed a relatively cheap deal. $2mil less a year then Panarin. $1mil less then Huberdeau.
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Panarin was a UFA, of course he’s probably not going to take a discount by then (Thachuk and Rantanen - among others - signed before they were technically UFA) but they do get more than their share of guys who force their way there - Fox and JT Miller among them.
devilsblood
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Did any of those teams offer Soto $700 mil and all sorts of other perks?
Texas did sign A-Rod all those years ago but had to trade him cause they couldn't afford a team around him.
devilsblood
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Rantanen's deal that he just signed is only slightly more then Panarin's deal signed 6 years ago. We can act like the $1mil+ in taxes is not a thing, but it probably played into it.
guitarguyvic
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This is incredibly reductionist. There’s a litany of other factors likely playing into these decisions. Dallas is a legit contender and has a lower cost of living than New York, and generally warmer weather. You can’t just distill this down to an income tax decision.
Tennessee also has no income tax AND a lower cost of living than both Texas and Florida, why aren’t players flocking there at discounted rates? North Carolina has a lower cost of living than Florida despite having an income tax. During the Sharks’ best years, their top players were regularly signing at discounted rates despite California having one of the highest tax rates AND cost of living in the country.
There is no reliably quantifiable difference between the income tax advantage or any other advantage any given place might have, financial or otherwise. This is a narrative that’s being pushed by people with an interest to push it.
devilsblood
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So warmer weather matters, but $1mil in tax savings doesn't?
Also note the bold.
guitarguyvic
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You can’t just say $1 million in tax savings, its highly unlikely the difference is that much and even it is it’s not something that can be accurately estimated beforehand. We have multiple examples in the last couple of pages of this thread and even a link someone posted explaining the complexities of taxes and why the math is not at all straightforward like that.
It’s something for the player to consider, of course, but the point is it’s no more quantifiable than cost of living, warm weather, quality of the team, nightlife, or any other number of “advantages” one place might have over another.
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I think the point is both everything matters and nothing matters. You could play this game over and over again. Some players would rather make more money in a low tax state, some players would like to play for a winner, some players would like to play close to home.
Was income tax why Nieds went to Anaheim? Clarkson went to Toronto? Parise went to Minnesota? Gaudreau went to Columbus? Are we to assume that everyone who signs anywhere is because of income tax? Players are banging down the doors in Seattle to get in on that sweet, Washington State, free ride!
This is a made up, Canadian media, non-issue.
devilsblood
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5 of the top 10 highest AAV contracts are on Canadian teams. 2 more are from NYC. Karlsson's deal was signed when he was in California.
Zero are from Florida. One is from Texas.
devilsblood
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Again. How much?
What's the number? What amount of income tax makes a person chose another team? What about a different guy? What stage in a career? What stage in overall earnings? What if you're 37 and chasing a Cup? What if you're 28 and already won 3 and have 2 MVPs? What if you're coming off your entry level deal? What if you're a 10x All-Star? What if your mother is in declining health and lives in Winnipeg? What if your daughter has some health issues and you want to be near great hospitals? What if you're wife is from Sweden? What if your wife has a medical internship in a certain city? What if your brother plays in Arizona? I could go on and on and on.
EVERYTHING plays into it. Income tax is one piece of a complicated puzzle. I just don't believe it warrants enough discussion to do anything about.
devilsblood
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I agree a bunch of factors play into it, and every guy weighs those factors differently.
But when you look at the list of highest paid players and 80% of the top 10 list is a high tax team, I have to believe it's a pretty significant factor overall.
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Not sure I understand. 8 of the top 10 highest paid players are on teams with no income tax?
I saw one. Rantanen, and that happened a few weeks ago. Actually makes me think this is even less of a problem.
devilsblood
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Like someone else said the 'original six' and big markets had - and still have - other built in advantages long before tax was an advantage to sunbelt teams. If no taxes (which is also a relatively new phenomenon) gives 'other' teams an edge to counter that, so be it I guess.
devilsblood
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I agree on this too. I'm not arguing for a change in the CBA to balance this out.
But it pretty clearly seems to be a factor.
guitarguyvic
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You are still ignoring multiple factors. This isn’t proof that income tax is a major factor. Texas and Florida also have amazing weather and cup contending teams and lower cost of living than up north. How are you determining that those factors aren’t more important than taxes? In fact, all of them are more tangible than taxes, because (and you keep ignoring this) there is no way to accurately estimate the exact financial impact of taxes ahead of time. It’s too complex. And it’s certainly not a million dollars as you keep trotting out. You also conveniently ignored past examples of “discount” contracts like during San Jose’s best years. During that time no one was signing in Florida for cheap. They happened to stink and the sharks were a good team in a high tax high cost state. That sure seems to indicate that actually, there are a bunch of things that seem to be a bigger X factor than taxes.
guitarguyvic
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Also those teams up north handing out big contracts also just happen to be huge hockey markets that are willing to pay for big names. And Florida signed Bobrovsky to an expensive deal, certainly not any kind of apparent discount there, guess it’s just a coincidence that this was before Florida established itself as a legit contender.
devilsblood
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I'm not ignoring factors at all. I'm saying taxes are a factor, a significant one, among many other factors.
Why would pocketing more money not be a significant factor, when we all know damn well the driving force money is?
I also find the tax discussion funny because it is mainly coming from Canada and Canadian teams this year have been more successful overall than they have been for more than a decade. Edmonton is going to its second straight Final. Winnipeg won the Presidents trophy. Leafs finished in first for the first time since Covid. All three Canadian eastern teams made the playoffs.
I don't know how much Fitz and our other local gms push it as an advertisement to sign here but us, Rangers, Islanders and Flyers have a huge benefit of having super close travel for a lot of road games. Now that won't matter as much to the younger guys but for the guys that have a wife and kids and actually want to be home with them it's a huge benefit to be able to play local road games and be home the same night.
