Only game being played is the blame game(CBA Negotiation discussion thread) - Part IV

[Lomez]

The saddest thing is that the majority of the people that are replying to Barch's tweets are supporting him.

These are the same chumps to whom, ironically, Bettman refers as "the best fans in all of sports." When all is said and done, rest assured, they'll be there spending 50% of their disposable income on hockey happy as can be that forces of good have prevailed over the evil genius Gary Bettman. Sadly, however, they will do so completely oblivious to the fact that their mindless and slavish support has enabled the league to be able to take such a hard line. As the Evil One said "they'll be back." Chumps.

 

[Epsilon]

Serious question, when most unions go on strike the service is still provided to keep the business rolling, except the owner(s) of said business(es) look to scab workers.

So what's stopping the NHL from bringing in washed up or not quite there players on a temporary basis?

If they feel so strongly that the league needs significant reform (and I'm not disputing that 20 out of 30 teams are either losing money or breaking even) what other way to get the NHLPA to start thinking clearly and face that they have it good.

Among other things, because the NHLPA is not on strike, the NHL has locked them out. Using replacement workers in a lockout situation is not something that's easily accomplished (the NLRB would have to approve it, among other things), and there are potential legality issues in certain jurisdictions (Quebec, for instance). There's no way the NHL is going to get itself declare an "essential service" or anything along those lines, and they'd have to be able to claim the main purpose of using replacement workers is an economic one and not as an anti-union tactic (good luck with that considering all the talk about how they don't need their teams because they all have other primary income streams).

 

[Dado]

So what's stopping the NHL from bringing in washed up or not quite there players on a temporary basis?

The fact that the players aren't on strike, for starters.

 

[PaPaDee]

Meh, just don't care anymore. I've resigned myself to the possibility that there may not be any NHL hockey this year and I'm fine with it. Majority of the NHLers don't really have a "love" for the game anymore and are content collecting their fat cheques. I'd much rather watch junior hockey and world juniors where players haven't been ruined by the PA's culture of greed and self entitlement.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHLPA members just arrived at the NHL office in NY. Don Fehr is not here. Talks will start soon.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Friggin' scary. Like Chris Benoit scary... God I hope this just an alcohol influenced rant and nothing more.

Lord... a guy has a bit too much to drink and gets emotional and you think it's scary? Jesus. Get a grip.
Welcome to the internet.


Way to completely react to someone being melodramatic.

 

[TCsmyth]

Time for the NHL to stop screwing around here . The PA simply doesn't want to negotiate so lets play hard ball

Ok players here's our final offer. Keep your salary in the 1st yr but we are going immediately to a 50/50 split in HRR for next 7 yrs after that. We want an 8 yr contract and we will increase the owners share of RS to 220 mil .

We want the contract issues fixed. Max 8 yr term limit on contracts and 4yrs on ELC's. We want bonus money strictly controlled and to be included in the cap the year it's paid. Not Averaged over the life of the contract.There will be no more front or back loading designed to circumvent the cap. We will give you FA after 8 yrs service or age 26 which ever comes first.

Final offer ,you take this and vote on it. If its rejected then we sit till your ready to do so.

I've been through at least 10 sets of negotiations in my life and I've never seen a situation where one side basically refused to move of their 1st offer. Its time for the NHL to stop fooling around with these guys so just lay it on the line for the final time.

Burton yes...absolutely yes . This is exactly what needs to happen. Put the offer to the players, release it to the public, then wait for the call when Barch is finished his OV and Port

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Think Barch might have taken a few too many shots to the head, maybe he can sue the league over that next. "Boo hoo, I work a couple of minutes a day 50 times a year and have made millions doing it. Life is so unfair! I'm going pick up a gun and massacre the owners because they don't think I should be pulling down at least a half-mil for my contributions to society. I'm getting paid more than the best doctors in the world to skate slowly around the ice and occasionally punch people and my boss think I need a pay cut. IT'S NOT FAAAAIIIIRRR!!!!!!! How will my family survive on the millions I've made? My kid's kid's kids might have to get jobs and be a working stiff. Ugh."

Makes me wonder how most NHL players could handle working everyday for 40+ years and make a pittance compared to their "slashed" salaries.

Oh wait, owners are the mean, bad guys. Khys Barch is just like you and me, just a working guy fighting with his union brothers against big money for their fair share.

Do you really think anyone in the NHL works a few minutes a night?

Do you think TIME ON ICE = Hours Worked?

Is this what you think? Or are you just dishonest?

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Expect CBA talks on HRR Monday. Should be announced later today.

 

[ManByng]

Yeah, it's a bit odd to be honest.

Has any "average Joe" seen their paycheck be doubled within 7 years?

For all of the talk about the owners wanting to "take" from the players, if an office workplace paid everyone 100K instead of 50K within a couple of years for the same work they always did, then wanted to reduce it to 90K but keep room for further growth, would anyone honestly complain to the point of risking their jobs? Specially when the other employers can only afford to say, only absorb a fraction of the employees at the current wages and everyone else has to fend for 25K-30K positions?

The problem is that a lot of people - and for the looks, many players themselves - think that the previous CBA was "forced" upon them and the owners stole everything from them or something like that. The matter of fact was that it was meant to cut short-term costs, but it was incredibly favorable for the players in the long term thanks to the cap floor and favorable HRR distribution.

Another thing is that the CBA in 2005 was negotiated in the context of that time. It's an entirely new situation now. The old deal has expired. Given some big losses some franchises are experiencing, it clearly shouldn't be the standard bearer for a new CBA. And if costs can't be kept in check then people simply won't want to own teams in the league.

Here's something that hasn't sunk into the heads of the players AND the public: a difference of say, 10% in costs for owners might be the difference between making a healthy profit and being quite deep in the red - it's the margin that matters. Essentially, it's the gap between being a viable business and NOT being a viable business. Say all you want about greed this and greed that but if you don't have the economic incentives for billionaires to own teams then no one will buy them be interested. Whereas a grinder earning 1M instead of 1.1M will surely keep playing hockey.

i have worked at my job for over 30 years now and i have taken a pay cut TWICE over the years in order to keep my job and i make a HELL of a lot less than the players do! if i can do it, the millionaires can do it!

 

[Diatidialga]

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Expect CBA talks on HRR Monday. Should be announced later today.

Well, atleast they haven't ran off for 4 months yet

 

[Krishna]

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Expect CBA talks on HRR Monday. Should be announced later today.

Good news

 

[BLONG7]

i have worked at my job for over 30 years now and i have taken a pay cut TWICE over the years in order to keep my job and i make a HELL of a lot less than the players do! if i can do it, the millionaires can do it!

There are alot of corelations in real life, and pro sports, and then of course there is some major differences...mostly about money...The PA seem to have a real sense of entitlement since Fehr has come along, and have lost some touch with the real world where people make 50K a year, and actually use some of that money to support millionaire's and billionaire's....go figure.

Both sides need each other, and have to strike a balanced deal...just can't believe all of the posturing, and hardly no time actually working, to get a deal...

 

[JAX]

There are alot of corelations in real life, and pro sports, and then of course there is some major differences...mostly about money...The PA seem to have a real sense of entitlement since Fehr has come along, and have lost some touch with the real world where people make 50K a year, and actually use some of that money to support millionaire's and billionaire's....go figure.

Both sides need each other, and have to strike a balanced deal...just can't believe all of the posturing, and hardly no time actually working, to get a deal...

That's what's been bugging me the most also, the PA has that sense of entitlement no matter how many teams are in the red. I didn't think the posturing would be this bad on the PA's side I thought the players would try to push for a deal and bargain aggresivly against the league to get the best deal possible. but no....they are going to play chicken instead and playing a foolish game they will not win in the short term or the long term. The players have been hypnotized by Fehr and don't seem to know any different.

 

[Number 9*]

i have worked at my job for over 30 years now and i have taken a pay cut TWICE over the years in order to keep my job and i make a HELL of a lot less than the players do! if i can do it, the millionaires can do it!

While taking your pay cuts was your Owner bragging for 7 years how great everything was?

 

[Epsilon]

It's pretty funny to hear people on here using terms like "sense of entitlement" when you guys are the ones opining over how much money other people are making or asking to make.

 

[Jason Lewis]

God who knew a sport of such physical nature is being played by such entitled little *****es.


Stop crying about everything on twitter and pandering for public support you whiney babies. Sign your 6 and 7 figure salaries and "Just play."

Just like your fun little catch phrase has been. That was a touching story Mr. Barch, but look around. Is 650K a year you make now not enough? You'd probably say no it's not. Greed runs wild in these parts.

 

[Mike Jones]

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Expect CBA talks on HRR Monday. Should be announced later today.

For the amount of pessimism that's been swirling around these past 24 hours the two parties have been talking and they've been dealing with some of the stuff that's been needing dealt with. Maybe we all (Players included) need to stay sober, avoid Tweeting like the plague, and just plain relax.

 

[The Note]

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Expect CBA talks on HRR Monday. Should be announced later today.

Hopefully they don't last 30 minutes and they don't meet for another week

 

[Jason Lewis]

For the amount of pessimism that's been swirling around these past 24 hours the two parties have been talking and they've been dealing with some of the stuff that's been needing dealt with. Maybe we all (Players included) need to stay sober, avoid Tweeting like the plague, and just plain relax.

Dude seriously, someone from the PA needs to step in and say "Hey guys, shut the **** up on twitter."

Because seriously, some guy getting slammed on wine and then complaining that he isn't sure how he is going to support his family of a wife and three kids on 6 figures....well that's not scoring any points with me.

I'm sure their are idiots out there that will tear up and say, "OMG how touching, oh those ****ing greedy owners let them play."

But in reality it really makes their problems seem like first world problems. Oh no Mr. Barch you can't afford the wine? Oh man you're going to have to take your kids out of private school. Such a sad sad world.

 

[Butch 19]

Dude seriously, someone from the PA needs to step in and say "Hey guys, shut the **** up on twitter."

Because seriously, some guy getting slammed on wine and then complaining that he isn't sure how he is going to support his family of a wife and three kids on 6 figures....well that's not scoring any points with me.

I'm sure their are idiots out there that will tear up and say, "OMG how touching, oh those ****ing greedy owners let them play."

But in reality it really makes their problems seem like first world problems. Oh no Mr. Barch you can't afford the wine? Oh man you're going to have to take your kids out of private school. Such a sad sad world.

and the first number on his 6-figure salary is an 8.

For a player I"ve never even heard of till last night. Geez!

Here's hoping that he and his family can pull through these "tough times."

Think of the children!! someone, PLEASE!

 

[Jason Lewis]

and the first number on his 6-figure salary is an 8.

For a player I"ve never even heard of till last night. Geez!

Here's hoping that he and his family can pull through these "tough times."

Think of the children!! someone, PLEASE!

Someone think of his poor children!

I mean let's not down play the physical toll this game takes on the guy, but to say he is no different then a truck driver or something is absolutely asinine.

 

[pepty]

It's pretty funny to hear people on here using terms like "sense of entitlement" when you guys are the ones opining over how much money other people are making or asking to make.

Maybe because the people here are fans and it is the fans money that is affording the lavish salaries of these players.

 

[Epsilon]

Maybe because the people here are fans and it is the fans money that is affording the lavish salaries of these players.

Do you also comment on the lavish salaries of the highest-paid executives, project managers, and engineers at Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Google, Dell, Samsung, and whatever other companies were involved in designing and selling the computer or phone you (presumably) spent your money on and that you are now using to comment on NHL player salaries?

 

[Jason Lewis]

Do you also comment on the lavish salaries of the highest-paid executives, project managers, and engineers at Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Google, Dell, Samsung, and whatever other companies were involved in designing and selling the computer or phone you (presumably) spent your money on and that you are now using to comment on NHL player salaries?

Difference: They don't come out in the media and on twitter and complain about how little they are making. NHL players are doing that.