Only game being played is the blame game(CBA Negotiation discussion thread) - Part IV

[Fishhead]

It isn't just because of the lockouts that the viewers have dropped, have several big names tested positive for steroids countless fans felt cheated by the stars of the MLB and didn't know if they were cheering for the player or the roids. The NHL does not have the same problem (yet it could happen), the lockout may piss off fans but most come back as they still love the sport.

Great point and another reason that a lot of baseball fans despise Fehr. He was perhaps the biggest voice against drug testing and anti doping policies. I remembered him likening it to someone showing up at your door and testing you. Civil liberties, privacy, and all that stuff. He completely ignored baseball's rich history and the integrity of the game.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

I was reading something about the possibility of the cap going down for all teams and that many teams would be over the cap if such a scenario would be implemented. How would these teams change to meet cap compliance? I cant imagine the NHL hitting them with a penalty but there would have to be a huge shuffling of players throughout the league.

 

[Fugu]

I was reading something about the possibility of the cap going down for all teams and that many teams would be over the cap if such a scenario would be implemented. How would these teams change to meet cap compliance? I cant imagine the NHL hitting them with a penalty but there would have to be a huge shuffling of players throughout the league.

Without a clawback and amnesty for buyouts, they'd be screwed.

 

[GoSensGo6172]

It's non-economic issues, but finalllllly a bit of progress being made!

 

[aj8000]

Point is the players would still play and negotiate and the silly statement about the MLB strike keeps coming up! And one has nothing to do with the other. MLBPA went on strike because the MLB owners didn't honor the agreement. Not because Fehr used it as leverage.

Did you miss the part that MLB did NOT honor the agreement? Not making a payment of 7.8m that they had agreed to make.

If everyone agrees they "make too much" why would they strike before the playoffs? The logic in a strike while collecting paychecks escapes me? Unless of the owners do something that doesn't honor the agreement.

"never recovered"

Now I'd like to hear an explanation on this statement?

BTW who won the 2004-2005 Stanley Cup?

And yet they have had 20 years of labor peace and during the same time frame the NHL has had 3 lockouts and lost one whole season and a 16 team playoff and a champion.

Is that you Fehr? Trying some revisionist history eh.

 

[SJeasy]

Are you suspending people for unintentional injury?

She is.

The distinction between intentional and unintentional is a very grey area. I doubt that there is a single player who will concede intent in their meeting with the disciplinarian. Intent is a bone of contention in almost every incident. In terms of legal language unintentional is often referenced as "reckless". The other issue that the offender may claim is ignorance of potential consequences of an action. In the legal arena, ignorance is not an acceptable defense against proscribed actions.

Likely the only actions where intent could not have been challenged have been the stick swinging incidents and things like the Bertuzzi incident. I would think that they would want to move the intent pointer over a bit for a situations like the Cooke/Savard and Richards/Booth incidents where they would be deemed intentional (distance traveled).

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

It's non-economic issues, but finalllllly a bit of progress being made!

Phew. Well, I for one am glad they are making progress on these issues instead of discussing the core problems. Keep up the good work guys!

 

[PaPaDee]

I suppose it is nice to get all of the details ironed out, but until they can agree on the economics, it's all really pointless. Let Daly & Steve Fehr talk through the minor issues and have Bettman & Fehr work through the economics issues.

 

[Number 9*]

It's just so illogical for the players to lose 100% of a year's pay vs 10-15% escrow.

How long do you think Toronto will like not collecting 2.4m/home game in gate fees alone?

Here are the numbers

19500 x 123.00/average ticket price

 

[Fishhead]

I suppose it is nice to get all of the details ironed out, but until they can agree on the economics, it's all really pointless. Let Daly & Steve Fehr talk through the minor issues and have Bettman & Fehr work through the economics issues.

I'm hoping agreeing on some things will give them a little push. CBA or large contract negotiations are greatly influenced by momentum. Let's hope the ball keeps rolling downhill.

 

[MaskedSonja]

This seems to be how the pattern has gone in previous NHL talks-they always seem to discuss and get the "small" issues out of the way, wait until reg season games start getting cancelled, then they disappear for a long time before coming back to talk again.


Just seems to be the same pattern.

I see A weekend of "non-core" issues, possibly a proposal from the players (which according to a suggestion in the news thread a "similar" one to previous ones), which then Bettman will say "they've given us the same proposal 4 times", the NHLPA gets ticked off, and both sides go sulk for a couple of weeks/months.

 

[MaskedSonja]

How long do you think Toronto will like not collecting 2.4m/home game in gate fees alone?

Here are the numbers

19500 x 123.00/average ticket price

I see your point, and not to be said in a trolling manner, but that didn't stop them from losing the season last time.

 

[GoSensGo6172]

Phew. Well, I for one am glad they are making progress on these issues instead of discussing the core problems. Keep up the good work guys!

Are you freaking kidding me? Man, save your sarcastic BS. Do you not understand how a negotiation works? If they can't get any middle ground on the main issues, settle the other smaller things first, get some positive vibes going, get on the same page on SOMETHING and than once that has been accomplished you can get back to the core issues and try to keep the progress going. It's common knowledge that a deal will be thrown together very quickly, you're not going to hear little updates on it or twitter crap from sources. They will come out and say progress is being made, than BAM three-five days later a deal will be struck out of nowhere.

These things are a process. Be happy they're meeting at all right now and stop making it so easy to look at the negative. We all know the negative stuff without your lame comment.

 

[Number 9*]

I see your point, and not to be said in a trolling manner, but that didn't stop them from losing the season last time.

The monies weren't close to what they today!

 

[CerebralGenesis]

It's Toronto, it's not they don't get hit with inflation either or something...

We have to be getting trolled right now, I'm trying to stay in the middle but I'm going pro-owner reading reading some of this nonsense.

 

[Pepper]

The monies weren't close to what they today!

Toronto is just one of the teams in the NHL.

NHL teams collectively made ~100-200M in profits last season. Players made 1.89B in salaries.

Who do you think will blink first?

 

[Number 9*]

Toronto is just one of the teams in the NHL.

NHL teams collectively made ~100-200M in profits last season. Players made 1.89B in salaries.

Who do you think will blink first?

The NHL made 1.3b and players made 1.89b

So simple math:

1.3b/30 owners = 43m/owner after all players costs are paid.
1.89b/700 players = 2.7m/player

I know that's not how it works but the money is available on the owners side for all to be profitable with a better RS program and a 50/50 split.

The real problem Mr. Bettman finds it much easier to claw money from the players than he would attempting to get the owners to agree to a meaningful RS program.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Not only build momentum, but try to cross some things off the list. The task will seem a lot less daunting if it doesn't feel like they still have to work out everything.

 

[CBJ goalie]

Progress! (hey, we'll take what we can get....)

NHL, NHLPA MAKE PROGRESS ON DRUG TESTING, HEALTH ISSUES
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406296

 

[Huis Clos*]

The real problem Mr. Bettman finds it much easier to claw money from the players than he would attempting to get the owners to agree to a meaningful RS program.

Ultimately I think there will be some form of both in the new CBA.

 

[Suxnet]

This may be a stupid question but what is going on with realignment? I remember reading before (when it was still a hot topic) that it would somehow play a factor in the upcoming cba. The BoG approved it but I have not heard anything about it since, so has it been totally thrown out the window or could it still happen in the future?

 

[Ice-Tray]

The NHL made 1.3b and players made 1.89b

So simple math:

1.3b/30 owners = 43m/owner after all players costs are paid.
1.89b/700 players = 2.7m/player

I know that's not how it works but the money is available on the owners side for all to be profitable with a better RS program and a 50/50 split.

The real problem Mr. Bettman finds it much easier to claw money from the players than he would attempting to get the owners to agree to a meaningful RS program.

Except that most team owners didn't make any money last year. You knowing that that's not how it works makes the point moot.

You're too funny... The owner's are the one's moving to 50/50 (48% last offer?) and have agreed to continue with the same HRR agreed upon last CBA.... They have also made concessions on the RS and are not far apart on that issue. The owners have made concessions towards a fair deal, the players refuse to negotiate. We all know what the final deal will look like approximately, but it won't get done until the players actually negotiate towards it.

The real issue is that the players haven't negotiated within this framework. Your proposed solution of 50/50 split with higher RS is not even a possibility until your beloved players start negotiating for it.

 

[Number 9*]

Ultimately I think there will be some form of both in the new CBA.

I think the PA wants the RS established before they agree to any rollback.

In other words they want to be sure not only rollback money goes to RS but the owners concess some of their money not just player rollback.

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

Are you freaking kidding me? Man, save your sarcastic BS. Do you not understand how a negotiation works? If they can't get any middle ground on the main issues, settle the other smaller things first, get some positive vibes going, get on the same page on SOMETHING and than once that has been accomplished you can get back to the core issues and try to keep the progress going. It's common knowledge that a deal will be thrown together very quickly, you're not going to hear little updates on it or twitter crap from sources. They will come out and say progress is being made, than BAM three-five days later a deal will be struck out of nowhere.

These things are a process. Be happy they're meeting at all right now and stop making it so easy to look at the negative. We all know the negative stuff without your lame comment.

I know they are a process. I don't give two-***** about it. They could have started this process way earlier instead of waiting for the last month or so. **** them both.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
As reported,morning topics included player health/safety.Source described meetings as 'having good' tone,agreements on 'many' issues. #TSN

They agree on several things!