Olli Määttä

[Penguinzilla*]

Rookie of the year

 

[jmelm]

Rookie of the year

Candidate? Yes. Likely winner? No. Reilly Smith and Nathan MacKinnon are going to get the bigger votes. I see Maatta like Jonas Brodin: he'll get credit, but won't be putting up enough points to win it -- at least as it stands now.

Imagine Olli Maatta at age 23. Hell, imagine him a year from now.

The way Maatta has progressed from the beginning of last year till the end of last season, and then from the end of last season to where he is today, I expect his upward trajectory to be VERY steep. I don't envision a sophomore slump for this player.

I don't like speaking about drafts only a year or two from them. Not enough has been able to transpire. I liked Trouba more at the time of the draft, but I do believe that Pouliot was the best offensive defenseman available there, he's also stalkier than Trouba, and I think will be able to hang as much weight on his frame as Trouba will. Trouba is just a nasty individual, but I don't think Pouliot is a slouch in that area.

I think we underrate Pouliot a lot here. There are two things that are knocks on Pouliot...since (which I don't think will be when he fills out), and defensive position, which can be coached. He has elite vision and passing ability, natural offensive ability, and can feel the game at a very high level in the offensive zone. He also has the willingness to stick his nose in and be physical. He really is a complete package player, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn into one of the best defensemen in that draft.

I agree with everything you said except one thing: the biggest issue with Pouliot is his skating. I'm not saying he won't be an NHL player. I do think he will put on weight, increase his toughness and physicality, and has the hockey IQ and commitment to become great in all 3 zones. But him not being an elite skater is what I think will limit his upside potential, and make him more of like a #3/4/5 + elite PP-QB, but unless he improves it significantly, I think that will prevent him from really being a true #1/#2.

What is the potential for a monster Maatta-Pouliot pairing? I mean, do they play the right sides. I just want to see it even if not permanently.

NO. I would like to see Letang, Maatta and Pouliot all on different pairings. What these 3 players have in common is an excellent ability to jump up into the play. As a result, I firmly believe they would be best served by having solid, stay at home D partners to complement that. For example...

Dumoulin/Harrington--Letang
Maatta--Martin/Bortuzzo
Despres/Dumoulin--Pouliot

Now, that raises an interesting issue: we simply do NOT have room for all of those players, and that doesn't even factor in possible re-signings/extensions (i.e. Martin) or other young prospects that may step up (Ruopp, Samuelsson, D'Agostini, etc....). This is why I believe, no matter what, we will end up trading one of Despres or Dumoulin, or less likely but still possible, Harrington or Pouliot. So for all those thinking I'm a Despres hater because I include him in trade proposals, this is why: there's simply a log-jam. I've simply used Despres as an example, but it could be anyone of those guys, or possibly even a blockbuster built around Letang. The shoe is going to drop at some point. There's just too many guys there, and yet other needs where we can improve at the forward position.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

Candidate? Yes. Likely winner?

Yeah, there's no way he'll win unless he puts up points, even if is he is the best rookie at the end of the year. Kind of like Karlsson probably winning the Norris this year because of his point totals, even though he's just as bad as Letang defensively.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I agree with everything you said except one thing: the biggest issue with Pouliot is his skating. I'm not saying he won't be an NHL player. I do think he will put on weight, increase his toughness and physicality, and has the hockey IQ and commitment to become great in all 3 zones. But him not being an elite skater is what I think will limit his upside potential, and make him more of like a #3/4/5 + elite PP-QB, but unless he improves it significantly, I think that will prevent him from really being a true #1/#2.

Not to derail this thread, but DP is certainly an elite skater. He doesn't have top end speed like Letang, however. In terms of edge work, kick outs, transitions, lateral mobility, etc, his skating is elite.

He won't be able to cover up for his mistakes using unreal speed like Letang, but plenty of top end blue liners lacked blazing speed and became elite. Lidstrom, Murphy, and Rafalski come to mind.

Those guys were positionally sound and didn't have to cover up for bad pinches, missed NZ assignments etc like Letang constantly finds himself doing.

Decision making, ultimately, will be the only thing that holds DP back, not skating. His skating is his biggest strength after his elite passing skills.

 

[madinsomniac]

sooooo have we cast a bust for him in the Hall of Fame yet? Lol... The kid has played great and honestly he has a lot of room for growth, particularly in his offensive game... Is he an everyday NHLr at 19... sure, and that is impressive enough, but lets hold off on rookie of the year talk just yet. At least till we are through the olympic break and we havent seen him wear out any...

 

[jmelm]

Not to derail this thread, but DP is certainly an elite skater. He doesn't have top end speed like Letang, however. In terms of edge work, kick outs, transitions, lateral mobility, etc, his skating is elite.

He won't be able to cover up for his mistakes using unreal speed like Letang, but plenty of top end blue liners lacked blazing speed and became elite. Lidstrom, Murphy, and Rafalski come to mind.

Those guys were positionally sound and didn't have to cover up for bad pinches, missed NZ assignments etc like Letang constantly finds himself doing.

Decision making, ultimately, will be the only thing that holds DP back, not skating. His skating is his biggest strength after his elite passing skills.

I expanded on my details of the critique of Pouliot's skating in the other thread. I did not go into as much detail here, but I will clarify and repeat what I said:

Derrick Pouliot is a GREAT skater: edge work, pivots, lateral movement, and even quickness over short distances is pretty good (like Jussi Jokinen, for example, who is quick over small distances but looks slow over larger distances and doesn't have that extra gear). His hockey IQ is also excellent, which will help him a lot. It's his top-end speed and lack of that extra gear that are a concern.

In that previous post, I used Larry Murphy as an example of the type of player for whom these facts would NOT be a significant concern. Why? Because he had a lot of size and range that mitigated his lack of speed. I stated that if Pouliot was 6'2 like Murphy or Lidstrom (who was certainly a better skater than Murphy or Pouliot), I would not have this concern....

To me, it is the combination of his lack of ideal size, and his proclivity for pinching in, joining, and leading the rush that make me concerned, for the exact reason you said: unlike a guy like Letang or Morgan Rielly, Pouliot does not have the recovery speed. This is the thing that concerns me the most. I want Pouliot to be able to play that game, but not having the speed of guys he's been compared to the most (Campbell, Letang) is an issue.

Now, I also mentioned: what I don't know (but what the Pens do) is how much time or effort exactly that Pouliot has/has not put into power skating and/or lower body training. If Pouliot has done a lot of this already, the room for growth in this area will be very limited. If he's like a Beau Bennett or Tom Kuhnhackl, when they were drafted, and has barely trained or done work in this area, this would suggest he has much more room to improve. Only the Pens know this. But as it stands now, I see it as a significant impediment -- not enough that he won't be a player, but enough that he may only be a bottom 3 guy rather than a top-3 guy.

If, for example, you look at the way his WJC teammate Josh Morrissey can skate (or Campbell, Leddy, Letang or even Goligoski), if DP could skate like that, I think he'd have top-2 Dman written all over him. That's the way I perceive this player and will continue to do so unless he can improve significantly in this area. Ideally, that is what I'd like to see from a somewhat "undersized", offensive Dman, particularly if you're drafting him in the top-10. A top-10 Dman should project to be a top-1 or 2 Dman, IMO.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I expanded on my details of the critique of Pouliot's skating in the other thread. I did not go into as much detail here, but I will clarify and repeat what I said:

Derrick Pouliot is a GREAT skater: edge work, pivots, lateral movement, and even quickness over short distances is pretty good (like Jussi Jokinen, for example, who is quick over small distances but looks slow over larger distances and doesn't have that extra gear). His hockey IQ is also excellent, which will help him a lot. It's his top-end speed and lack of that extra gear that are a concern.

In that previous post, I used Larry Murphy as an example of the type of player for whom these facts would NOT be a significant concern. Why? Because he had a lot of size and range that mitigated his lack of speed. I stated that if Pouliot was 6'2 like Murphy or Lidstrom (who was certainly a better skater than Murphy or Pouliot), I would not have this concern....

To me, it is the combination of his lack of ideal size, and his proclivity for pinching in, joining, and leading the rush that make me concerned, for the exact reason you said: unlike a guy like Letang or Morgan Rielly, Pouliot does not have the recovery speed. This is the thing that concerns me the most. I want Pouliot to be able to play that game, but not having the speed of guys he's been compared to the most (Campbell, Letang) is an issue.

Now, I also mentioned: what I don't know (but what the Pens do) is how much time or effort exactly that Pouliot has/has not put into power skating and/or lower body training. If Pouliot has done a lot of this already, the room for growth in this area will be very limited. If he's like a Beau Bennett or Tom Kuhnhackl, when they were drafted, and has barely trained or done work in this area, this would suggest he has much more room to improve. Only the Pens know this. But as it stands now, I see it as a significant impediment -- not enough that he won't be a player, but enough that he may only be a bottom 3 guy rather than a top-3 guy.

If, for example, you look at the way his WJC teammate Josh Morrissey can skate (or Campbell, Leddy, Letang or even Goligoski), if DP could skate like that, I think he'd have top-2 Dman written all over him. That's the way I perceive this player and will continue to do so unless he can improve significantly in this area. Ideally, that is what I'd like to see from a somewhat "undersized", offensive Dman, particularly if you're drafting him in the top-10. A top-10 Dman should project to be a top-1 or 2 Dman, IMO.

JJ is a decent skater, but he and DP's skating aren't really even comparable in any way. JJ kicks out like a sloth and has limited agility. I've seen DP shake forecheckers with 2 point turns that defy inertia. JJ would be picking up his ankle bone at the dot if he ever attempted some of the things DP can do.

B2B speed, I'm positive DP would be faster than Maatta and his technical skating is easily above Maatta as well. I expressed several concerns over Maatta's skating since he was drafted, but he has significantly improved every aspect that worried me. However, he is again, not in DP's league as far as skating goes. Maatta's biggest strengths are all upstairs. If you put his mind into DP's body, you would have a ridiculous blueliner.

I can't see any physical limitations with DP. He is as big as Letang, Keith, Karlsson, etc to name a few.

It is again going to come down to what's between his ears, and none of us really know where he will be in that regard, two, three years down the line.

 

[YungDankShawty]

Candidate? Yes. Likely winner? No. Reilly Smith and Nathan MacKinnon are going to get the bigger votes. I see Maatta like Jonas Brodin: he'll get credit, but won't be putting up enough points to win it -- at least as it stands now. [\QUOTE]

OT, but I don't think Reilly Smith is a rookie. Hertl, MacKinnon, and Nichushkin/Krug will be the 3 Calder candidates when it's all said and done IMO.

EDIT: Forgive me for butchering the quote box thing

 

[cygnus47]

The reports from earlier in the season were that Pouliot is great at maximising his skating when he has the puck, and he does everything without losing stride. He isn't a great power skater though. Who knows if they can fix that. Maatta has come along way from a far worse starting point, hopefully Pouliot is equally committed to improving.

 

[gordie]

Dare I say Calder???

 

[jmelm]

JJ is a decent skater, but he and DP's skating aren't really even comparable in any way. JJ kicks out like a sloth and has limited agility. I've seen DP shake forecheckers with 2 point turns that defy inertia. JJ would be picking up his ankle bone at the dot if he ever attempted some of the things DP can do.

B2B speed, I'm positive DP would be faster than Maatta and his technical skating is easily above Maatta as well. I expressed several concerns over Maatta's skating since he was drafted, but he has significantly improved every aspect that worried me. However, he is again, not in DP's league as far as skating goes. Maatta's biggest strengths are all upstairs. If you put his mind into DP's body, you would have a ridiculous blueliner.

I can't see any physical limitations with DP. He is as big as Letang, Keith, Karlsson, etc to name a few.

It is again going to come down to what's between his ears, and none of us really know where he will be in that regard, two, three years down the line.

I am not at all concerned with DP's hockey IQ. It is, in fact, unlike a guy like Joe Morrow (amazing natural skater/strength/shot/etc), DP has an elite hockey mind & vision. He doesn't get his points because he can shoot a puck through people or blaze by them like Morrow. He does it with his heads up play, skilled passing (more of a playmaker than a shooter) and transition play. I have commented on his incredible ability to read plays and pick off passes, which is a sign of great, great intelligence and anticipation. DP absolutely needs to improve his consistency in his own end, and the balance of defense and offense, which he has stated; but the common denominator in terms of why he is great in either of those areas is because he is so smart, reads the play so well, and has tremendous vision (along with other skills).

So I actually think he and Olli are VERY, VERY close in terms of quantifying their respective hockey IQ. What I think is different (besides Olli's physical size) is that he plays such a mature game. DP LOOKS like a 19 year old junior Dman. Olli looks like a guy who's played in the NHL for 4 or 5 years. But these traits that Olli has, I believe are largely due to 2 factors: playing a significant international role for his country at a young age; and playing for (IMO) the best Dmen developmental coaches in the Hunters. There are A LOT of similarities between Olli and Harry, for example.

But i agree with cygnus' last comment here about the skating. Even in his draft year, I thought Olli was an awkward skater, but at the same time a very effective skater. Olli has the type of stride that we know he can still add even more explosiveness to.

What we don't know about DP is: can he add that extra gear or level of explosiveness, ESPECIALLY considering he is going to only add another 15 lbs or so of muscle. Not knowing his developmental and training history (the way the Pens would know when they did their due-diligence), it is hard to say exactly how much better of a skater he can become. But at his size, and with his penchant (and skill) for jumping into the play, and against the MUCH faster, bigger & better competition at the NHL level, I frankly am concerned about exactly how high his ceiling can be. But I truly believe the truth will be in his legs, not between his ears AT ALL. That is arguably his best attribute.

The reports from earlier in the season were that Pouliot is great at maximising his stkating when he has the puck, and he does everything without losing stride. He isn't a great power skater though. Who knows if they can fix that. Maatta has come along way from a far worse starting point, hopefully Pouliot is equally committed to improving.

 

[Master Shake*]

Best young dman I have seen in awhile. I am stunned by how good he has been. Already at an allstar level.

 

[#66]

Not to derail this thread, but DP is certainly an elite skater. He doesn't have top end speed like Letang, however. In terms of edge work, kick outs, transitions, lateral mobility, etc, his skating is elite.

He won't be able to cover up for his mistakes using unreal speed like Letang, but plenty of top end blue liners lacked blazing speed and became elite. Lidstrom, Murphy, and Rafalski come to mind.

Those guys were positionally sound and didn't have to cover up for bad pinches, missed NZ assignments etc like Letang constantly finds himself doing.

Decision making, ultimately, will be the only thing that holds DP back, not skating. His skating is his biggest strength after his elite passing skills.

That's what reminds me of Zubov. DP almost plays at a different pace than some other skaters. I think he makes the puck do the work rather than skate all over the ice. It almost looks like he's not trying but his game is more headsy than Letang.

I always compare him to Kaberle and its strange because I think he should be more well rounded. He looks strong and I've seen him play with an edge but its just not there all the time.

 

[tinkezione]

The way Maatta has progressed from the beginning of last year till the end of last season, and then from the end of last season to where he is today, I expect his upward trajectory to be VERY steep. I don't envision a sophomore slump for this player.

Agree, and the sole reason for this is that he seems to be really good in learning from the mistakes he makes. Does not let them to drag him down, but manages himself to take a heed instead, and all that within a single game. His poise with the puck is something I don't see from many ten-year veterans.

 

[Get To Our Game]

His offensive game is starting to come around too, with 5 points in his last 9 games. Sooner or later his point shots will start going in as well.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Candidate? Yes. Likely winner? No. Reilly Smith and Nathan MacKinnon are going to get the bigger votes. I see Maatta like Jonas Brodin: he'll get credit, but won't be putting up enough points to win it -- at least as it stands now. [\QUOTE]

OT, but I don't think Reilly Smith is a rookie. Hertl, MacKinnon, and Nichushkin/Krug will be the 3 Calder candidates when it's all said and done IMO.

EDIT: Forgive me for butchering the quote box thing

Correct. Reilly Smith played 37 games for Dallas last season, so he's not eligible.

The Calder race is going to get very interesting in the second half, imo. Lots of rookies are playing important roles now. Aside from Hertl, MacKinnon, Nichushkin, Krug and Maatta, I could see the likes of Chiasson, Ondrej Palat, Michael Raffl, Seth Jones, Tyler Toffoli and others getting consideration if they step up.

Anybody's race really at this point. Maatta has the advantage of playing for a 'glamor' team, always in the spotlight. If he continues to play well, more people will notice him than, say, Seth Jones in Nashville. I use Jones as an example because while he has been seeing less and less ice time recently, I don't expect that to last. He's too good, he'll figure it out.

If Maatta goes to the Olympics, that's another feather in his cap. If he does well there, more people will notice, etc.

 

[mikko1995]

Määttä's rookie season reminds me of Jonas Brodin's rookie season. Consistent defensively, good first pass, always calm, good with his stick; doesn't produce much, but still pretty good offensively (although Olli has been scoring at a nice pace the past 10 games or so).

EDIT: Just saw jmelm's post, agree with him completely.

 

[mirasane]

Candidate? Yes. Likely winner? No. Reilly Smith and Nathan MacKinnon are going to get the bigger votes. I see Maatta like Jonas Brodin: he'll get credit, but won't be putting up enough points to win it -- at least as it stands now.

Maatta obviously has read your post. Tonight's game agains Wild isn't even over yet and Maatta has already one goal and two assists.

 

[Phil68]

Does Having Maatta make Letang expandable?

 

[JTG]

Ya, that **** was funny. Now a few of those guys love him and pound their chests about how he's developed.

With DP, he has a chance to be the most dynamic offensive blueliner from his draft. You really have no idea where he will be in a year, just look at Maatta.

I wasn't happy with the Maatta pick, because of who was still on the board. He was a Jekyll and Hyde player in London and played like a bonehead at times. He wasn't as consistent as some people have claimed he was in London.

I felt he was expendable last spring, but he played extremely well this Summer and impressed the hell out of me, and carried that momentum right into camp.

The Maatta we are seeing now, wasn't nearly this consistent in London last season.

IHWR was really the only poster I recall saying Maatta was going to be this good.

IHWR nailed the **** out of his projections for that draft. I hope he's wrong about Pouliot, but he called Maatta. No doubt about it.

And that's why I just laugh when people start knocking picks immediately after these guys are picked, and they rag on them for years afterwards, really not knowing the half of any prospect. As I've said with Pouliot...he's raw...sure. I would tend to believe with how this team has drafted defensemen, they know what they are looking for, and they have had enough experience (and success as we are seeing) developing these guys that they believe Pouliot has the mental aptitude and willingness to learn to be able to clean up his defense deficiencies.

As I've said, he has size. The kid is 6'0 and will probably fill out to be around 210-215. He is quite stalky for his size. He has unreal passing and vision, which I cannot wait to see here. I simply can't. Having a true PPQB with the ability to think the game on the same level as our star players will be a sight to be seen. I know he has a little **** stirrer streak in him, and he's not putting guys through the boards, but I think he's a lot like Letang. If he gets a chance to pop someone, he's going to do it.

So that really leaves us with his defensive positioning and size. Size he will gain, and I have a belief that the organization will be able to coach him up enough to be at least average defensively, which is fine with me if he fully develops offensively.

I have always thought of Pouliot's skating much like Skinner. Skinner had a knock on him coming out as lacking that true passing gear in his skating. I think Pouliot also lacks that gear, but his mobility is fine. I mean, I don't believe Maatta is an overly fast skating. He is a great skater though. Same thing. And honestly, with some work with Maryann, I think Pouliot may find that gear. Some of the work she has done with some of our guys, mainly Dustin Jeffrey has been awesome.

 

[tinkezione]

I'm at loss for words. This kid has just been answering the call night after night and if he continues playing like this, I can't see him being far off from the Calder Trophy when all is said and done.

Then again, when our injured d-men return, his visibility will somewhat drop, but I'm glad right now he's able to be reap full benefit of the situation. It's a ****ed up world if he does not land in the Sochi team. Earlier I wished I could see him play here in my current hometown next week in JWC, but not any more. Off with such egoistic thoughts.

 

[UnrealMachine]

His offensive game is starting to come around too, with 5 points in his last 9 games. Sooner or later his point shots will start going in as well.

I've been very impressed with how many shots he is getting on net. Even if they don't go in, the rebounds are eventually going to get to the sticks of Neal, Kunitz, etc. for some nice rebound opportunities.

Letang should be taking notes here. Instead of triple-clutching in place while the shooting lanes fill themselves, Maatta is actually willing to reposition himself to find the open shooting lane.

 

[Get To Our Game]

I've been very impressed with how many shots he is getting on net. Even if they don't go in, the rebounds are eventually going to get to the sticks of Neal, Kunitz, etc. for some nice rebound opportunities.

Letang should be taking notes here. Instead of triple-clutching in place while the shooting lanes fill themselves, Maatta is actually willing to reposition himself to find the open shooting lane.

Yep, he is getting better at setting himself up for shots. And how about that blast that just missed the net the other night (I think against NYR)? He has a good shot selection and a hard, accurate pass. He will put up pretty good point totals, I think.

 

[Gurglesons]

Can't wait until this kid has played more than 30 games and teams start throwing hits into him like they do Letang every single night.

Maatta's looked great, but the collective orgasm over this kid is ridiculous. Let us list rookie 1st round pick d-men that have looked this great 30 games in..

Tyler Myers
Cam Fowler
Victor Hedman
Adam Larsson
Erik Johnson
Dion Phaneuf
etc.

I hope he can pan out to replace Orpik / Scuds, but lets hold our horses before he even plays half a season, let alone two. It is easy to play in this league when you haven't been scouted by 29 teams. Eventually teams will start playing off Maatta's flaws and taking advantage of them. We have seen it happen already in this young season. Love the kid and want him to be the next success story in terms of d-man drafting by the Pens, but yeah. Look how long it took Fowler to get back to form after his rookie year. Let alone how most of the guys on the above list dropped in potential immensely.

 

[gordie]

Can't wait until this kid has played more than 30 games and teams start throwing hits into him like they do Letang every single night.

Maatta's looked great, but the collective orgasm over this kid is ridiculous. Let us list rookie 1st round pick d-men that have looked this great 30 games in..

Tyler Myers
Cam Fowler
Victor Hedman
Adam Larsson
Erik Johnson
Dion Phaneuf
etc.

I hope he can pan out to replace Orpik / Scuds, but lets hold our horses before he even plays half a season, let alone two. It is easy to play in this league when you haven't been scouted by 29 teams. Eventually teams will start playing off Maatta's flaws and taking advantage of them. We have seen it happen already in this young season. Love the kid and want him to be the next success story in terms of d-man drafting by the Pens, but yeah. Look how long it took Fowler to get back to form after his rookie year. Let alone how most of the guys on the above list dropped in potential immensely.

I wouldn't put Phaneuf and the younger Hedman in the "They aren't as good as expected" list.