Post-Game Talk: Oilers win by the Skin of their teeth

[CupofOil]

1 great playoff series in his life. Even with that he still has historically bad playoffs numbers.

Considering how good our team is… yes I think a lot of goalies would be able to match that. Pickard was in the AHL for half a decade + and performs just as well… if not better than Skinner.

He gave up more than 3 goals twice against Dallas and Florida (keeping in mind too that the league is higher scoring now).

These were his goals against in those two series...

2
2
4
2
1
1
2
3
4
1
3
1
2

Lots of 1s and 2s so, again, more hyperbole to how bad Skinner has been.
His first playoffs were bad, he was a rookie, 2nd playoffs got much stronger as the playoffs wore on and was key in both the Dallas and Florida series.
Goalies are voodoo, there's lots of fluctuations in play generally. Oettinger was terrible 2 years ago in the playoffs, got outdueled last playoffs against Skinner, Saros wasn't great against Vancouver, Helleybuck got lit up in two straight playoffs despite being a god in the regular season.
I'm not saying Skinner is on the level of those guys obviously, just saying that goalies are fickle and that using small sample sizes to judge a goalie (in this case, all the folks calling him an AHL goalie, NHL backup) isn't a proper way to evaluate a goalie.

Long story short. Yes Skinner has flaws, yes Skinner is slow laterally, yes Skinner is having a poor season (I called him out in the GDT last night) yes Skinner had a poor playoffs showing in his first season but, no, Skinner is not an NHL backup, no Skinner is not an AHL goalie, no there aren't 50+ goalies that are upgrades on Skinner.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Sometimes the puck hits him and sits in the crease and he just stares at it. It’s bizarre.

I’d be shocked too if the puck didn’t go in

 

[bone]

That’s one of his biggest problems.

Most NHL goalies have reflexes good enough to direct rebounds to safe areas. They’ll often kick out the pad even if the puck would’ve hit it anyways just to propel the puck to a safer area.

With Stu he just sits there hoping the puck hits him and wherever it goes after that is left up to chance.

For sure, I hate that rebound, but the visualizer was interesting as well showing how almost everyone f***ed up on that play.

Hyman, slow change.
JSkinner abandons his side to chase puck carrier,
Perry doesn't recognizing Skinner abandoned the left side to cover Perry's side of the ice leaving him arriving too late to an area that already had 4 Oilers in it.
Emberson just kind of standing around covering nothing but a lane, and not doing it effectively.
Kulak getting sucked over to the right when there was already 4 Oilers there and missed picking up that a forward was coming in uncovered on the left.
McDavid kind of caught in no man's land not knowing where to go with his linemates all over the place
Stuart not recognizing that there was only really one spot on the ice where a rebound was deadly and sends the rebound right down that lane.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Say what now?

sure he could if the shot didn't leave the ice. Short of a circus performer, I've never seen a large human makes themselveds look smaller than Koskinen did when facing down a shooter. The guy was 6'7' and got beat up high almost for fun by other teams.

A lot of revisionist history going in here right now regarding Koskinen

You’re aware that most goals that go in are in the top part of the net right?

 

[guymez]

Check out this visulizer capture of the goal. Total timbits hockey with everyone becoming too puck focussed with the kill shot of StuSkin rebounding the medium-low danger shot to literally the only spot on the ice that was dangerous.



View attachment 930165

Stu Skinner was the least of the issues on that play.

 

[iCanada]

You’re aware that most goals that go in are in the top part of the net right?

Tell that to Schwartz-y.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

reading some GDTs from last year at this time it was the same old gripes...Skinner sucks and Schwartz needs to be fired lol

fast forward a year and here we are

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

About the first goal as it's been discussed here and quite many say it was just impossible to catch that. I think that even with a good shot these are savable and Skinner didn't give himself a chance with how he first positioned himself (like not realising at all there might be a pass coming) and then kicking himself strangely towards the other goal and turning himself to opposite direction, which left the whole goal open. I don't know what the kicking move was but those have to be removed quickly from his game. I'm attaching a photo that shows the position and angle he had just before the shot.

Not meaning to be all negative, but positioning and moving sideways still seem clear weaknesses.

This capture is abit deceptive. Go back slightly and one can see a clear quality shooting lane for the puck carrier with gap separation from Bouchard. Skinner is set for the shot. Islander instead feeds the open winger who rifles a one-timer to score.

Not absolving Skinner of largely mediocre goaltending but that’s a solid play leveraging coverage gaps to rip a Bang Bang one-timer on net.

Skinner’s puck handling is poor. He too often creates chaos pushing pucks out into danger areas and is challeged with lateral movement. Oil need consistent read and react in the crease.

 

[brentashton]

I’d be shocked too if the puck didn’t go in

Ok. There’s been a lot of action on here today.

That might be the winner!

 

[soothsayer]

About the first goal as it's been discussed here and quite many say it was just impossible to catch that. I think that even with a good shot these are savable and Skinner didn't give himself a chance with how he first positioned himself (like not realising at all there might be a pass coming) and then kicking himself strangely towards the other goal and turning himself to opposite direction, which left the whole goal open. I don't know what the kicking move was but those have to be removed quickly from his game. I'm attaching a photo that shows the position and angle he had just before the shot.

Not meaning to be all negative, but positioning and moving sideways still seem clear weaknesses.

He was really far out of his net here. You see a goalie challenge the shooter like this if there's no pass option, but Palmieri (who is a really underrated shooter) was obviously a threat for a one-timer. The exception are goalies like Quick and Vasilvesky, who can cover an absurd amount of lateral space in no time with a single push.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

He gave up more than 3 goals twice against Dallas and Florida (keeping in mind too that the league is higher scoring now).

These were his goals against in those two series...

2
2
4
2
1
1
2
3
4
1
3
1
2

Lots of 1s and 2s so, again, more hyperbole to how bad Skinner has been.
His first playoffs were bad, he was a rookie, 2nd playoffs got much stronger as the playoffs wore on and was key in both the Dallas and Florida series.
Goalies are voodoo, there's lots of fluctuations in play generally. Oettinger was terrible 2 years ago in the playoffs, got outdueled last playoffs against Skinner, Saros wasn't great against Vancouver, Helleybuck got lit up in two straight playoffs despite being a god in the regular season.
I'm not saying Skinner is on the level of those guys obviously, just saying that goalies are fickle and that using small sample sizes to judge a goalie (in this case, all the folks calling him an AHL goalie, NHL backup) isn't a proper way to evaluate a goalie.

Long story short. Yes Skinner has flaws, yes Skinner is slow laterally, yes Skinner is having a poor season (I called him out in the GDT last night) yes Skinner had a poor playoffs showing in his first season but, no, Skinner is not an NHL backup, no Skinner is not an AHL goalie, no there aren't 50+ goalies that are upgrades on Skinner.

Facts aren’t hyperbole. It’s a fact he’s been one of the worst playoff performers.

 

[bone]

Stu Skinner was the least of the issues on that play.

I wouldn't say that he was least of their issues as he likely erases the entire sequence if he knocks down the dump in, and the rebound control was horrible, but he certainly wasn't alone.

 

[Old Boys Club]

That stat is per 60, yes.

Yikes. Oilers goaltending in shambles

 

[Juxta Position]

You’re aware that most goals that go in are in the top part of the net right?

they shouldn't when your 6'10" on skates....

 

[CanadasTeam99]

reading some GDTs from last year at this time it was the same old gripes...Skinner sucks and Schwartz needs to be fired lol

fast forward a year and here we are

It's too bad this org can't ever make quick changes. They just sit on things until they are rotten. If this was Patrick Alvin, he would have had a goalie at least 1 week ago

 

[McDNicks17]

they shouldn't when your 6'10" on skates....

Is he playing stand-up style in 1980s? haha

 

[Duke74]

You know who was dynamite with Drai?

Tay Tay.

Who?

 

[CycloneSweep]

In the playoffs last yea

He gave up more than 3 goals twice against Dallas and Florida (keeping in mind too that the league is higher scoring now).

These were his goals against in those two series...

2
2
4
2
1
1
2
3
4
1
3
1
2

Lots of 1s and 2s so, again, more hyperbole to how bad Skinner has been.
His first playoffs were bad, he was a rookie, 2nd playoffs got much stronger as the playoffs wore on and was key in both the Dallas and Florida series.
Goalies are voodoo, there's lots of fluctuations in play generally. Oettinger was terrible 2 years ago in the playoffs, got outdueled last playoffs against Skinner, Saros wasn't great against Vancouver, Helleybuck got lit up in two straight playoffs despite being a god in the regular season.
I'm not saying Skinner is on the level of those guys obviously, just saying that goalies are fickle and that using small sample sizes to judge a goalie (in this case, all the folks calling him an AHL goalie, NHL backup) isn't a proper way to evaluate a goalie.

Long story short. Yes Skinner has flaws, yes Skinner is slow laterally, yes Skinner is having a poor season (I called him out in the GDT last night) yes Skinner had a poor playoffs showing in his first season but, no, Skinner is not an NHL backup, no Skinner is not an AHL goalie, no there aren't 50+ goalies that are upgrades on Skinner.

9 goalies played 340+ minutes last playoffs.
Skinner was…5th in s%, 6th in GAA, 6 in GSAA…. All strengths.
Of those same goalies, 5v5….
Skinner was 9th in s%, 9th in GAA, 9th in GSAA.

Skinner was so bad 5v5 in the playoffs of goalies who made it past the first round that the teams legendary PK only bumped him up to 6th in most stats.

Hell let’s look at it at all goalies who played at least 150minutws 5v5 in the playoffs. 16 goalies.
Skinner ranks 14 and 15 in all stats.

Drop it down to every goalie who played a playoff game. 27 goalies, Skinner ranks 20/21st.

Skinner in the playoffs is bad to below average. That’s a statistical fact.
Now is there 30 goalies in the league better than him?

In last 2 years 49 goalies have played 1500+ 5v5 minutes. Stuart ranks…
27th in sv%, 16 in GAA, 28th in GSAA, 12 in xGA, 33rd in HDCA.
In the same time the Oilers defensively rank…
7th in xGA, 7th in SCA, 5th in HDCA.

So over the last 2 years, statistically the Oilers are one of the best teams defensively in the league and yet, Skinner is below average.

So what that tells me is Skinner isn’t an NHL calibre starter. You take some of those goalies with similar stats on bad teams and put them in Skinners place, they and the team would absolutely do better.

At the end of the day, by every number, this team makes things very very easy on Skinners and yet…

 

[Juxta Position]

Is he playing stand-up style in 1980s? haha

That's was what so frustrating with him, he didn't need to. He was so tall that being in the butterfly, if he didn't crouch so low and consistantly have his glove so far down, just his sheer size would've covered most of the top half of the net.

He actually had to work to make himself smaller, which he always did....

 

[brentashton]

Is he playing stand-up style in 1980s? haha

Sorry McD, Doesn’t matter.

You should still be able to fill a lot of the top even in reverse vh when you are that size. His body torso is also larger than just the legs.

The problem is that Skinner plays small and shrinks doen when play is in the 5 foot radius. There have been videos posted here that demonstrate his penchance for that.

That is squarely on coaching to not coach him out of that habit.

 

[Cloned]

For sure, I hate that rebound, but the visualizer was interesting as well showing how almost everyone f***ed up on that play.

Hyman, slow change.
JSkinner abandons his side to chase puck carrier,
Perry doesn't recognizing Skinner abandoned the left side to cover Perry's side of the ice leaving him arriving too late to an area that already had 4 Oilers in it.
Emberson just kind of standing around covering nothing but a lane, and not doing it effectively.
Kulak getting sucked over to the right when there was already 4 Oilers there and missed picking up that a forward was coming in uncovered on the left.
McDavid kind of caught in no man's land not knowing where to go with his linemates all over the place
Stuart not recognizing that there was only really one spot on the ice where a rebound was deadly and sends the rebound right down that lane.

I mean if you say everyone makes one mistake there, Stuart makes at least two so he’s still primarily to blame.

 

[McDNicks17]

That's was what so frustrating with him, he didn't need to. He was so tall that being in the butterfly, if he didn't crouch so low and consistantly have his glove so far down, just his sheer size would've covered most of the top half of the net.

He actually had to work to make himself smaller, which he always did....


View attachment 930188

That's not really how height works for goaltenders though. Most of the height comes from their legs and that's why the big, elite goalies usually thrive covering the bottom of the net.

Guys like Bobrovsky and Vasilevsky have made careers out of being basically unbeatable down low.

 

[tardigrade81]

Imagine if we had an actual goalie

We could be 15-1 like Winnipeg

It's fun to think about

 

[guymez]

I wouldn't say that he was least of their issues as he likely erases the entire sequence if he knocks down the dump in, and the rebound control was horrible, but he certainly wasn't alone.

His puck handling is very poor. Thats a major concern for sure.
I cringe every time he handles the puck.

That said...in terms of his rebound control on that specific play...could have been better but we are talking about a few feet.
The bigger issue was the total and absolute defensive meltdown for that entire 5 man unit.
That was embarassing IMO. Not even AHL level defenesive awareness/execution.

 

[Canovin]

There shouldn't be 47 goalies I would take over Stuart Skinner but I guess the Oilers like the bottom of the barrel choices

Pickard
Sorokin
Ullmark
Demko
Silovs
Markstrom
Vladar
Wolf
Blomqvist
Dostal
Gibson
Elvis
Logan Thompson
Talbot
Wallstedt
Askarov
Filip Gustavsson
Mrazek
Lyon
Vasilevsky
Montembeault
Hellebucyk
Brossoit
Shesterkin
Jake Allen
Stolarz
Woll
Swayman
Oettinger
Adin Hill
Kuemper
Ingram
Vejmelka
Bobrovsky
Daccord
Blackwood
Ersson
Quick
Andersen
Kochetov
Saros
Anton Forsberg
Ukko-Pekka-Luukkonen
Korpisalo
DeSmith
Binnington
Hofer