Value of: Oilers suggested fixes

[glenbuis]

Lol @ chiarot for a 1st

Man... turns out being dead wrong about how good your team is all off season makes you overvalue players even more when the team absolutely sucks.

lol that team swept your team last year . that must be a bitter pill to swallow . definitely the weakest team the habs faced on the way to the finals . cheers

 

[TFHockey]

I don't believe so and you say "your guys". We are talking about Chiarot alone in this conversation and you have this seed in your head that you think all Habs fans overvalue all our assets. It's a shitty narrative to use cause all fan bases does this. Even the Oilers fan base bud!

Book mark it. Chiarot will return more than a 2nd and a 4th. Why? Cause of supply/demand and the Oilers are not the only team that will be in on Chiarot.

Well I also just interacted with you about Price, so I was addressing your views as a whole. However I agree all fan bases do the same thing.

I guess time will tell about Chairot. One thing I can say for certain; HF posters almost never get trades right.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I'd prefer Colin Miller (BUF) over Chiarot . He was really good for Vegas when they went to the finals and has a bit more offensive upside than Chiarot.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well I also just interacted with you about Price, so I was addressing your views as a whole. However I agree all fan bases do the same thing.

I guess time will tell about Chairot. One thing I can say for certain; HF posters almost never get trades right.

You have Price in your head today and my presentation was Price after the Olympics when healthy again. And consider this stupid narrative that gets twisted to our fan base at two angles...

Habs are only in the cup finals because of Price narrative
vs
Price is not worth that much... even with retention down to $6M

No doubt in my mind you and many others were spitting out this same narratives at different points in time (today vs last playoffs). You can't have it both ways and I know you know what I am talking about. Will you acknowledge it and show good character?

And yes, time will tell about Chiarot. I think many teams easily offer a 2nd and a 4th. That's a low ball starting point. But like I said, bookmark it and lets see what the actual return is. Remember the Patch trade discussions and how his value was rag dolled? Habs are not always right yes but we are not always wrong as well.

Next time, spare me personally about the "your overrate all your assets" type narratives. Price at $6M and Chiarot at the deadline is worth more than you are willing to admit. You just want to buy low and I want to sell high. There is not locked in truth here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'd prefer Colin Miller (BUF) over Chiarot . He was really good for Vegas when they went to the finals and has a bit more offensive upside than Chiarot.

Miller is a good comparison in terms of adding a physical rock. Do you think he is cheaper to acquire at the deadline? And no, I don't think Chiarot gets a 1st.

 

[DaPhazz]

Wacky proposals.

Barrie >> Myers

Edmonton can’t take on R. Smith

Edmonton doesn’t need Chiarot

Koskinen > Murray due to term

Chiarot is exactly what the Oilers would need, but the return is too low from MTL's pow, especially with that cap dump

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Miller is a good comparison in terms of adding a physical rock. Do you think he is cheaper to acquire at the deadline? And no, I don't think Chiarot gets a 1st.

I think they would be about the same in terms of value. Two years ago the Habs traded Marco Scandella to St. Louis at the deadline for a 2nd and a conditional 4th round pick. That same deadline Alec Martinez went for two 2nd round picks. So i think it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect something like a 2nd and a 3rd or 4th for Chiarot or Miller.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think they would be about the same in terms of value. Two years ago the Habs traded Marco Scandella to St. Louis at the deadline for a 2nd and a conditional 4th round pick. That same deadline Alec Martinez went for two 2nd round picks. So i think it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect something like a 2nd and a 3rd or 4th for Chiarot or Miller.

Call me bias but I have seen other media members and also fans talk about the impacts of what Chiarot brought in the playoffs. This is about what type of player teams want to add heading into the playoffs and values always varies at the deadline due to supply/demand. There is no doubt in my mind that Chiarot was a major player in series wins against the Pens, Leafs, Jets, Knights in the last two playoffs and I know teams have noticed it.

I'm not a fan of comparing to past deadline deals cause circumstance in each situation varies. I've seen way to often on how things change year to year. Look at the price Tampa paid for Coleman for example. They identified him as a team need and paid a price! There is a ton of different past examples we can try to compare too.

If there is only 1 or 2 teams in on Chiarot, the return might be lower than expected. But if there is 3-5 teams or more, the return ends up higher depending on who wants him more and are willing to trump others. That's my main point

 

[rubikscube]

Whoever is expecting a first for Chiarot has their head in the clouds.

It's not happening so do yourself a favor and prepare yourself for the inevitable.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Call me bias but I have seen other media members and also fans talk about the impacts of what Chiarot brought in the playoffs. This is about what type of player teams want to add heading into the playoffs and values always varies at the deadline due to supply/demand. There is no doubt in my mind that Chiarot was a major player in series wins against the Pens, Leafs, Jets, Knights in the last two playoffs and I know teams have noticed it.

I'm not a fan of comparing to past deadline deals cause circumstance in each situation varies. I've seen way to often on how things change year to year. Look at the price Tampa paid for Coleman for example. They identified him as a team need and paid a price! There is a ton of different past examples we can try to compare too.

If there is only 1 or 2 teams in on Chiarot, the return might be lower than expected. But if there is 3-5 teams or more, the return ends up higher depending on who wants him more and are willing to trump others. That's my main point

I think one thing that needs to be pointed out is that there's going to be a ton of free agent defenseman up for trade this year/

The list of defenseman hitting free agency who could be deadline targets include,

Chiarot, Miller, Subban, Stralman, Leddy, DeKeyser, De Haan, Marc Staal, Holden, Sekera,

Then there's a few maybes like Josh Manson, Klingberg, Giordano.

Playoffs teams have lots of options.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think one thing that needs to be pointed out is that there's going to be a ton of free agent defenseman up for trade this year/

The list of defenseman hitting free agency who could be deadline targets include,

Chiarot, Miller, Subban, Stralman, Leddy, DeKeyser, De Haan, Marc Staal, Holden, Sekera,

Then there's a few maybes like Josh Manson, Klingberg, Giordano.

Playoffs teams have lots of options.

Options yes but depends on the type they want. In many cases, there is a certain style of player teams prefer to add.

 

[Mike Jones]

Okay so i was thinking that there might be a few trades out there that might be able to help both teams. THESE ARE ALL STARTING ELEMENTS TO TRADES.

first off vancouver is screwed cap wise and are not doing good on the pp at all this year and oilers d is not really playoff material let alone almost not regular season material.

to Edm
Tyler myers 5m x 3yrs (retained 1m original cap hit 6m)

To Van
tyson Barrie 4.5m x 3yrs

why because i know hughes is there qb on pp but barrie helps out if hughes is having an off night at a lower cap hit and is closer to his home town and myers helps out oilers get a bit better defensively and a bigger body to throw around( i know he isnt known to throw the body as much)

@tdl
to Edm
reilly smith

to vegas
kailer yamamoto
Pick
i know teams dont like to do interdivision trading but this one is a good starting point to solidify the rw on the 2nd line and i know it helps out the golden knights cap wise and still get a middle 6 rw at a decent cap hit to help once eichel and pacs is back. which means that oilers will have to do some trades else where to make the cap work but i think its possible. but also saying that i can see other teams offer similar deals that are playing outside the division so this one is a 50-50.

@tdl
to edm
chairot

to mtl
2022 2nd rnd pick ( conditional as if the keith trade pick gets upgraded to the 22 2nd rnd pick it goes to 23 and 4th becomes a 3rd in 25)
2023 4th rnd pick(conditional)
cap dump like turris

to Edm
murray @50%

to ott
kosk
sceviour
obvious reasons why murray is not performing well/ at all for ott and think he can bounce back if he comes to edmonton, ott just doesnt have the d that works around him. im not saying oilers d is that much better than ottawas but im saying that it is better. maybe a trade through zona to get them to retain 1m off of murray as well. alot of people are saying that oilers should be going after maf or korpisalo or griess or bernier. but honestly i think sure maf could get it done but edm dcore isnt like vegas' and dont think hed do well( better than in chi though). i think with murray being young yet and helped pitts get their 2 cups out of the 3 that he still has a 2nd and 3rd chances to him. And with ott taking on both contracts they both expire at the end of the year and murray at 2.125(trade with zona)-3.125 its a smaller pill to swallow and its only 2 yrs left after this so i think its very viable option whether hes a starter or 1b or a back up the $$$ makes it versitile in both edmontons favor and helps out ottawa cap wise.


all these trades are subject to change depending on what ducks do with who they hire as gm and saw one of the anaylsts say that crosby would fit right in with avs so IF pitts decides now is the time to blow up the team and send him to the avs( which i highly doubt crosby plays for another team before he retires) but if they do blow up the team i think alot of teams(contenders) would go after letang and oilers would be one of them. also if ducks blow up their team as well( again stupid if they did this early) oilers should be in on gibson obviously but i think others would be as well. one of them being avs especially if they acquired crosby.


by all means i might be crazy or these trades might not make sense but i honestly think atleast 2 out of the 4 would definitely help out the oilers as well as other teams involved, and remember these are just starter trades other aspects of the trades can be added.

Edmonton doesn't need to make any of these because they'd risk messing up what they currently have. What they're currently doing seems to be working so there's no real need to mess with it - especially when it comes to their core and second tier players.

 

[McSuper]

I never said they should. I was simply saying you cant count on McDavid to perform like OV when he’s the same age. I did t even look at the trade proposal. It’s not relevant to my point.

Your point is if they aren't winning the cup it wasting McDavid's prime . No team can win the cup ever years so the years they don't are wasting McDavid's career ? The Oilers are a playoff team now and all it takes is a hot goalie to win it all . See St Louis . McDavid has a chance to win now the Oilers are no longer a bottom feeder .

 

[Bouboumaster]

If you think Chiarot is getting a 1st+ you're going to be very, very disappointed.

Turris at least is paid only $1.65 Million until the end of the season. Not exactly a hardship.

We'll see about that, and for the Habs side, we're talking "rebuilding", not "helping a brother out". We're not in the business of doing favors.
The price for Chiarot would be a 1st, especially with us either keeping salary, taking on Turris, or both

 

[Dust]

If you need defensive help you'd probably be the team trading away Tyler Myers, not adding him. Barrie is bad defensively also, but he brings offense at least.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Montreal's likely not doing the Chiarot trade. Even if they can't get 1st for him (and that's far from a sure thing given what's been reported), its pretty likely they can get a better 2nd than Edmonton's.

 

[Chayos]

Edmonton doesn't need to make any of these because they'd risk messing up what they currently have. What they're currently doing seems to be working so there's no real need to mess with it - especially when it comes to their core and second tier players.

I don’t think replacing Koekoek with Chariot would be anything but a positive move. That position is currently hurting, just like 3c is. It’s not going to affect any of the top 4 defenceman unless Chariot outplays Keith, which again would be a positive. There has to be a cap dump in any deal due to cap problems. This will likely bring a surcharge but a first is still too much.

 

[Mike Jones]

I don’t think replacing Koekoek with Chariot would be anything but a positive move. That position is currently hurting, just like 3c is. It’s not going to affect any of the top 4 defenceman unless Chariot outplays Keith, which again would be a positive. There has to be a cap dump in any deal due to cap problems. This will likely bring a surcharge but a first is still too much.

The 'cap dump' (Which isn't really much of a dump when you look at the big picture) you suggested is actually a steady bottom 6 forward who can still contribute in a bottom six way.

 

[Qwijibo]

Your point is if they aren't winning the cup it wasting McDavid's prime . No team can win the cup ever years so the years they don't are wasting McDavid's career ? The Oilers are a playoff team now and all it takes is a hot goalie to win it all . See St Louis . McDavid has a chance to win now the Oilers are no longer a bottom feeder .

I think you’re confusing me with someone else who said Edmonton is wasting McDavids prime years. I never suggested any such thing. I only pointed out that counting on McDavid to remain super productive into his late 30’s using Ovechkin as an example is poor reasoning. OV is an outlier and not typical in any way. Also he’s remained somewhat injury free throughout his career (unlike McDavid). I personally think Edmonton is looking like a powerhouse this year and if they can sort out the goaltending situation (by whatever means) they could be a threat this year

 

[majormajor]

The 'cap dump' (Which isn't really much of a dump when you look at the big picture) you suggested is actually a steady bottom 6 forward who can still contribute in a bottom six way.

Kyle Turris is not a steady player in any way, and hasn't played at an NHL caliber for almost the entirety of the last two years.

 

[Mike Jones]

Kyle Turris is not a steady player in any way, and hasn't played at an NHL caliber for almost the entirety of the last two years.

Maybe not but I'd be leery of messing with any of the chemistry right now.

 

[majormajor]

Maybe not but I'd be leery of messing with any of the chemistry right now.

There's really no chemistry in the bottom six. No success. They've been getting outscored 2-1 in recent games.

 

[Mike Jones]

There's really no chemistry in the bottom six. No success. They've been getting outscored 2-1 in recent games.

The team is winning - something must be working in that group as well as the rest of the team.

 

[elitepete]

vancouver is retaining atleast 1.5m if its that deal. turris is on his last year of the deal and ceci is playing good hockey on the 2nd line so i mean if anything van is adding

I would retain 1.5, but the other Oiler fan said he still wouldn't do it.

 

[GreeningOil]

I'd do this but Montreal would still have to retain. Turris isn't enough to off set the cap difference. With 50% retention which would be needed they probably hold out for a 1st, I wouldn't cave though. Maybe up the 4th to a 3rd.

Chiarot $3.5 million with 50% retention to 1.75 for 2nd, 3rd and Turris full hit at 1.6

Nurse - Barrie
Chiarot - Bouchard
Keith - Ceci

That's not bad. Adding a 2nd pairing LD makes a solid difference.

I would do this and hopefully sign Chairot longer if it works out