Oilers play under Kris Knoblauch

[klefbombs shoulder]

Yak was a top 10 talent. People forget plenty of those never turn out.

He had some game early and then Eakins happened which derailed him.

Could he have done better otherwise? Maybe not but we'll never know.

Not to mention he was tackled by a linesman during a faceoff leading to a pretty bad knee injury.

 

[K1984]

Yak was a top 10 talent. People forget plenty of those never turn out.

He had some game early and then Eakins happened which derailed him.

Could he have done better otherwise? Maybe not but we'll never know.

He wasn't though, because otherwise he would still be in the league. Plenty of highly rated players don't reach their potential, but can still play in the league.

He was incredibly overrated and by the time the draft came around a lot of teams (including a lot of people with the Oilers at the time) knew he was a dud. Poor skater, poor passer, poor puck handler, no hockey sense, zero defensive ability, etc. He had a one timer and that's really it.

 

[Three On Zero]

To be fair one of those came in an absolutely horrible draft year (2012), and only 2 of those 4 picks came from actually finishing last in the league. The Hall and Nuge picks were intentionally planned, everything after that was management being so awful that they couldn't get out of the basement. Either way both franchises had long periods of sucking. I don't even know why people get into these little back and forth exchanges. Every team rebuilds and sucks at some point that's just sports.

Because it’s the internet.

Neither fan base really has a leg to stand on when it comes to talking about success, both have failed miserably to get to the ultimate goal. Drafting, in season success and post season success are all for nothing if you’re not playing for the cup

 

[Coffey]

Yak was a top 10 talent. People forget plenty of those never turn out.

He had some game early and then Eakins happened which derailed him.

Could he have done better otherwise? Maybe not but we'll never know.

Athletic talent maybe.
Too bad he had zero hockey IQ.

 

[Three On Zero]

The biggest net positive I’ve seen from the Knob so far is he lost the blender that coaches used. He’s more or less stuck with set lines and wants to build chemistry between the players, he isn’t just putting whomever he sees fit on the ice. And its working

(Like people kept saying Woody needed to do)

 

[Fishy McScales]

He wasn't though, because otherwise he would still be in the league. Plenty of highly rated players don't reach their potential, but can still play in the league.

He was incredibly overrated and by the time the draft came around a lot of teams (including a lot of people with the Oilers at the time) knew he was a dud. Poor skater, poor passer, poor puck handler, no hockey sense, zero defensive ability, etc. He had a one timer and that's really it.

I think this sounds revisionist. Again, there are top 10 picks that don't amount to anything.

His failure is not proof he lacked talent.

Athletic talent maybe.
Too bad he had zero hockey IQ.

Hockey sense was indeed a weakness working against him.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

I mean by that logic there are no Jack Adams contenders currently.

Kinda agree,
Philadelphia was not suppose to be anywhere close to be a playoff team.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

IMHO, after last year's playoff loss, Woodcroft tried to change things to create a better team for the playoffs, including trying to go to the Boston/Vegas zone defense, as the Oilers' man defense had been rather easily exploited. This required that everybody play tough defense and not cheat for the break as they could often do playing a man defense. Woodcroft's problem was (1) he really didn't have the quality of defensive personnel to run this zone defense properly, and (2) there didn't seem to be much team buy-in. So, Woodcroft's attempted changes were a disaster all around, compounded by the McDavid injury.

Knoblauch then comes in, McDavid gets healthy, and the Oilers go back to their familiar and comfortable formula for last season and take off again in a way that will probably get them into the playoffs. The thing is that style of play works great in the regular season, and of course the Oilers have to make the playoffs or nothing they do really matters, but whether it will bring them deep success in the playoffs is another question since so far that system has come up short for them. If it doesn't work for the Oilers again this playoffs, it will be interesting to see next season if Knoblauch then tries to make basically the same changes that Woodcroft thought needed to be made.

 

[Coffey]

IMHO, after last year's playoff loss, Woodcroft tried to change things to create a better team for the playoffs, including trying to go to the Boston/Vegas zone defense, as the Oilers' man defense had been rather easily exploited. This required that everybody play tough defense and not cheat for the break as they could often do playing a man defense. Woodcroft's problem was (1) he really didn't have the quality of defensive personnel to run this zone defense properly, and (2) there didn't seem to be much team buy-in. So, Woodcroft's attempted changes were a disaster all around, compounded by the McDavid injury.

Knoblauch then comes in, McDavid gets healthy, and the Oilers go back to their familiar and comfortable formula for last season and take off again in a way that will probably get them into the playoffs. The thing is that style of play works great in the regular season, and of course the Oilers have to make the playoffs or nothing they do really matters, but whether it will bring them deep success in the playoffs is another question since so far that system has come up short for them. If it doesn't work for the Oilers again this playoffs, it will be interesting to see next season if Knoblauch then tries to make basically the same changes that Woodcroft thought needed to be made.

First non-Oiler fan I've seen get exactly what happened.

 

[JarvisFunk]

First non-Oiler fan I've seen get exactly what happened.

Except our team defence has been waaaaay better than last year since Knoblauch and Coffey showed up.

Statistically and by the eye test.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Except our team defence has been waaaaay better than last year since Knoblauch and Coffey showed up.

Statistically and by the eye test.

Our team defends like Paul Coffey.

 

[Fourier]

Our team defends like Paul Coffey.

And Coffey was one of the best of all time in getting the puck out of the defensive zone. So maybe that's not all bad.

 

[onetweasy]

salt.

4 new defencemen, rebuilt bottom 6, a bunch of new coaches. Its not like its been luck of the draw.
It took some actual trades, pro scouting...you know...stuff that requires more strategy than relying on the once in a generation prize horse won at a slot machine ...

Nah it ain’t salt on my end.

Salt is complaining about a lottery draft that occurred 8 years ago that resulted in the Oilers getting a player that is better than any player to ever put on a Canucks jersey. That’s salt.

 

[Fishy McScales]

IMHO, after last year's playoff loss, Woodcroft tried to change things to create a better team for the playoffs, including trying to go to the Boston/Vegas zone defense, as the Oilers' man defense had been rather easily exploited. This required that everybody play tough defense and not cheat for the break as they could often do playing a man defense. Woodcroft's problem was (1) he really didn't have the quality of defensive personnel to run this zone defense properly, and (2) there didn't seem to be much team buy-in. So, Woodcroft's attempted changes were a disaster all around, compounded by the McDavid injury.

Knoblauch then comes in, McDavid gets healthy, and the Oilers go back to their familiar and comfortable formula for last season and take off again in a way that will probably get them into the playoffs. The thing is that style of play works great in the regular season, and of course the Oilers have to make the playoffs or nothing they do really matters, but whether it will bring them deep success in the playoffs is another question since so far that system has come up short for them. If it doesn't work for the Oilers again this playoffs, it will be interesting to see next season if Knoblauch then tries to make basically the same changes that Woodcroft thought needed to be made.

Knoblauch uses a zone system.

The Oilers weren't even that bad at it under Woodcroft even if there were breakdowns. They primarily struggled with failed breakouts hemming them in as well as rush chances just killing them. And poor goaltending as both a contributor and a result.

Also I'm not sure why a specific system is better or worse in the playoffs. Vegas were able to crack the Oilers' man-to-man, but I'm sure the opposite has happened many times in playoff series throughout history.

Oilers getting healthier, being given a wake-up call with a popular coach getting canned and some sensible changes by the new coach(es) are what has brought the Oilers success. I see no reason why it wouldn't be sustainable through the playoffs but we'll see.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

IMHO, after last year's playoff loss, Woodcroft tried to change things to create a better team for the playoffs, including trying to go to the Boston/Vegas zone defense, as the Oilers' man defense had been rather easily exploited. This required that everybody play tough defense and not cheat for the break as they could often do playing a man defense. Woodcroft's problem was (1) he really didn't have the quality of defensive personnel to run this zone defense properly, and (2) there didn't seem to be much team buy-in. So, Woodcroft's attempted changes were a disaster all around, compounded by the McDavid injury.

Knoblauch then comes in, McDavid gets healthy, and the Oilers go back to their familiar and comfortable formula for last season and take off again in a way that will probably get them into the playoffs. The thing is that style of play works great in the regular season, and of course the Oilers have to make the playoffs or nothing they do really matters, but whether it will bring them deep success in the playoffs is another question since so far that system has come up short for them. If it doesn't work for the Oilers again this playoffs, it will be interesting to see next season if Knoblauch then tries to make basically the same changes that Woodcroft thought needed to be made.

Haha yup. All well documented too.

Jonathan Marchessault basically outlined in an interview how our system got completely exploited by them.

Marchessault spilled the beans on exactly how Vegas knew it could beat Edmonton

Are Skinner, Nurse and Ceci getting too much blame? Definitely

edmontonjournal.com

So it was pretty public during training camp Woodcroft was going to implement a similar zone Defense than Vegas used:

Woodcroft Implements 1-1-3 Neutral Zone System

September 22, 2023 by Ryan Lotsberg Evander Kane told the media that the Edmonton Oilers will be implementing new neutral zone and defensive zone strategies for […]

heavyhockey.com

And then we limped out of the gate on this system:

Woodcroft defends Oilers’ new defensive system after 1-4-1 start | NHL.com

Edmonton coach says team experiencing ‘growing pains’ following 7-4 loss to Wild

www.nhl.com

And then stubborn defense of that system is what cost Woody his job:

Oilers' Jay Woodcroft stands behind defensive system despite abysmal start

Despite one of the worst starts to the season in recent memory for the Edmonton Oilers, Jay Woodcroft defended the team's systems.

clutchpoints.com

 

[Coffey]

Nah it ain’t salt on my end.

Salt is complaining about a lottery draft that occurred 8 years ago that resulted in the Oilers getting a player that is better than any player to ever put on a Canucks jersey. That’s salt.

Salt is complaining the Oilers got Hall, RNH and Yakupov.
Literally nobody is jealous of those players.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Also, the PK is night and day.

 

[Homesick]

Dumb people will say anything to trash the Oilers.
Woodcroft thought he was the smartest guy in hockey and tried to implement an entire new system this fall and couldn't adapt. Knoblauch looked at what had worked in the past and has slowly made slight changes. If they keep up the pace of the last 20 games he'll definitely be in the discussion for the Adams.

What blows my mind is how well the defense is playing with Paul Coffey as coach....eating some crow

 

[AddyTheWrath]

IMHO, after last year's playoff loss, Woodcroft tried to change things to create a better team for the playoffs, including trying to go to the Boston/Vegas zone defense, as the Oilers' man defense had been rather easily exploited. This required that everybody play tough defense and not cheat for the break as they could often do playing a man defense. Woodcroft's problem was (1) he really didn't have the quality of defensive personnel to run this zone defense properly, and (2) there didn't seem to be much team buy-in. So, Woodcroft's attempted changes were a disaster all around, compounded by the McDavid injury.

Knoblauch then comes in, McDavid gets healthy, and the Oilers go back to their familiar and comfortable formula for last season and take off again in a way that will probably get them into the playoffs. The thing is that style of play works great in the regular season, and of course the Oilers have to make the playoffs or nothing they do really matters, but whether it will bring them deep success in the playoffs is another question since so far that system has come up short for them. If it doesn't work for the Oilers again this playoffs, it will be interesting to see next season if Knoblauch then tries to make basically the same changes that Woodcroft thought needed to be made.

This isnt even true lol. We haven’t switched back to last years system.

We’ve just been better at breaking out of the zone because the players have started using the middle and actually moving the puck up with meaning rather than banking it off the glass or trying to push it along the boards and hope for the best.

 

[K1984]

I think this sounds revisionist. Again, there are top 10 picks that don't amount to anything.

His failure is not proof he lacked talent.


Hockey sense was indeed a weakness working against him.

Just watching him play is proof he lacked talent, just as quite a few scouts and teams that aren't dumb realized even at the time of the draft. Other than shooting he didn't bring any other elements to the table.

Plenty of Top 10 picks don't make it as anything; very few #1 picks don't become anything. Even the biggest "bust" #1's before Yakupov still had the ability to play some sort of role in the league. Daigle wasn't great relative to expectations, but he was still an okish middle 6 player. Blues would probably want an Eric Johnson re-do for 2006 #1, but he was still a top 3 d-man.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Our team defends like Paul Coffey.

I do not have a good eye for systems but this oiler team doesn't seem like previous oiler teams at all. It doesn't seem like were watching pond hockey out there this year.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Just watching him play is proof he lacked talent, just as quite a few scouts and teams that aren't dumb realized even at the time of the draft.

Plenty of Top 10 picks don't make it as anything; very few #1 picks don't become anything. Even the biggest "bust" #1's before Yakupov still had the ability to play some sort of role in the league. Daigle wasn't great, but he was still an okish middle 6 player.

I didn’t say he was a #1 talent, though, did I?

Talent, potential and ability are separate things.

 

[K1984]

I didn’t say he was a #1 talent, though, did I?

Talent, potential and ability are separate things.

Ok.

Original point was he was a dud #1 pick in a shitty draft and the Oilers were unlucky to have the #1 that year vs. say #5 in the year Petterson was drafted.

I'll disagree that Yakupov was even a Top 10 talent in an average draft year (2012 was among the worst ever), but it's besides the point. The crowing the people do about "DUUUUUUR 4 #1 overalls!" as if the Oilers landed Stamkos, Tavares, McDavid and Matthews with those is stupid because the Oilers didn't have the fortune of timing to have #1 overall picks available to them of anything remotely resembling that quality for the first 3.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Ok.

Original point was he was a dud #1 pick in a shitty draft and the Oilers were unlucky to have the #1 that year vs. say #5 in the year Petterson was drafted.

I'll disagree that Yakupov was even a Top 10 talent in an average draft year (2012 was among the worst ever), but it's besides the point. The crowing the people do about "DUUUUUUR 4 #1 overalls!" as if the Oilers landed Stamkos, Tavares, McDavid and Matthews with those is stupid because the Oilers didn't have the fortune of timing to have #1 overall picks available to them of anything remotely resembling that quality for the first 3.

You literally called him a 7th-round talent, nothing about what I said was beside the point.

 

[K1984]

You literally called him a 7th-round talent, nothing about what I said was beside the point.

And he was, so. Bet there are a lot of Russians that go in the 7th round that have a shot and nothing else. Oilers actually have on in the system right now in Petrov (he was a 6th rounder - you'll have to forgive me for the error).

I'll stop derailing the thread though (because this conversation is besides the point), because any discussion about how shitty Yakupov was can be dug up from the time he was failing and his inability to play hockey was fresh in everyone's minds.