Post-Game Talk: Oilers lose late to Vegas

[K1984]

I have been in Ryans corner for a long long while and had lots of time for him. But speaking of time, I really believe it's finally caught up to him for good, and they should move on from him.

Now watch him get a couple goals next game.

I've been a big Ryan supporter as well, and I hesitate to write him off because he usually gets better as the season wears on like the rest of the group.

Results are results though, and for a team that has difficulty with accountability a pretty easy way to start is to give a 4th line veteran player a long sabbatical from the game day lineup in place of a guy that came in and played with actual enthusiasm.

If these guys can't find a way to self motivate, and we don't have a new coach coming in to do it, then accountability has to come in the form of roster decisions like this. Doing nothing will result in nothing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm talking about the entirety of the season and the Kulak goal wasn't luck at all.

All this panic now but it's only a matter of time until the Oilers offense breaks out. I'm really not concerned about that area of their game long term.

"Matter of time"... We're 14 games into the season and our offense is so bad it makes the "Taylor Hall #1 Center" days look enticing. No we're not going to stay 30th forever but is the team going to explode offensively like we want them to? The longer this goes on the more likely it is that this is just reality.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

"Matter of time"... We're 14 games into the season and our offense is so bad it makes the "Taylor Hall #1 Center" days look enticing. No we're not going to stay 30th forever but is the team going to explode offensively like we want them to? The longer this goes on the more likely it is that this is just reality.

Only Draisaitl and Ekholm seem to be going offensively.

 

[The Moose]

No offence, no special teams, average goaltending, McDavid spinning his wheels, that's a pretty mediocre start to the season. If we don't find our stride soon, playoffs, let alone competing for the cup, will be a pipe dream this season.

 

[TheGingaNinja]

Getting the PK (some saves would really help) and, especially, the PP going would really smooth out a lot of the warts on this team. This team has always been built around its above average PP, and it suffering as bad as it is, is a big reason the offense has struggled so much. 5 on 5 hasn't been the team's issue this year.

Gullie and Stuart need to get their special teams in gear, pronto.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You're correct...Philp ultimately isnt the difference in this teams record however he does IMO move the needle a little bit in the right direction.
Enough little adjustments can make a difference so I see him as part of the solution sooner rather than later.
Especially when we are talking about a smallish player approaching 38 years old in Derek Ryan who is consistently getting pushed off the puck down low.

Like I said I don't see this as a quick fix or one that moves the needle. The substantive issue is the expensive top half of the roster. Noted your other concern about Janmark and Brown at risk of being pushed around down low. I definitely don't see this at all.

Philp had a solid game in Nashville and wobbled in a tight Calgary game with 1/8 face-off and under 9 minutes ice-time. He's better off getting big minutes in Bako and pushing any latent ability with quality offense and specialty time. This team, right now, is not a Noah Philp away from trying to get its collective shit together.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Heard Ekholm on the GYB pod and he responded very interestingly to a comment about their lack of PK success. Basically said the one PP that Vegas scored on, that he felt the PKers did everything right, were in the lanes and then.... he cut himself off there.

So he basically said that they needed a stop there. He seems like a real leader and didn't throw Stu under the bus or anything, but I just thought it was an interesting non comment, comment.

Yeah, I heard that as well. Ekholm also made a soft play on the winning goal and God knows what the f*** Bouchard was thinking last night. Enough Blame to go around last night that’s for sure.

 

[guymez]

Like I said I don't see this as a quick fix or one that moves the needle. The substantive issue is the expensive top half of the roster. Noted your other concern about Janmark and Brown at risk of being pushed around down low. I definitely don't see this at all.

Philp had a solid game in Nashville and wobbled in a tight Calgary game with 1/8 face-off and under 9 minutes ice-time. He's better off getting big minutes in Bako and pushing any latent ability with quality offense and specialty time. This team, right now, is not a Noah Philp away from trying to get its collective shit together.

As I said little moves can have a collective impact and I see Philp being one of those little moves.
As long as he is flanked by responsible vet players like Janmark and Brown IMO the positives out weight the negatives.

So I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[NeverForget06]

No offence, no special teams, average goaltending, McDavid spinning his wheels, that's a pretty mediocre start to the season. If we don't find our stride soon, playoffs, let alone competing for the cup, will be a pipe dream this season.

I wonder what you said last year when this team started 2-9-1? Probably would have been a "pipe dream" that that team would make the cup final ?

I agree they don't have the makings of a cup champ just yet.... but I mean cmon there is no chance these guys are missing the playoffs lol - that is some chicken little type stuff

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

As I said little moves can have a collective impact and I see Philp being one of those little moves.
As long as he is flanked by responsible vet players like Janmark and Brown IMO the positives out weight the negatives.

So I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

So far down the list of issues this team has. PP, PK, Scoring, Defending, Goaltending. It's great to imagine a little move somehow moving the substantive issues that cross all functions of this team but I live in reality. Guess we have to disagree how we see the issues and solutions.

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm talking about the entirety of the season and the Kulak goal wasn't luck at all.

All this panic now but it's only a matter of time until the Oilers offense breaks out. I'm really not concerned about that area of their game long term.

Not trying to be an ass, but I'm pretty sure this same type of post was made a couple weeks ago . I'm sure at some point it will come true. But right now, I am a bit concerned.

 

[guymez]

So far down the list of issues this team has. PP, PK, Scoring, Defending, Goaltending. It's great to imagine a little move somehow moving the substantive issues that cross all functions of this team but I live in reality. Guess we have to disagree how we see the issues and solutions.

I never said that it was at the top of the list. I agree with you about the PP and PK and the rest of it.
My perspective is that the PP, PK and 5x5 scoring will work itself out once the SCF hangover resolves.
In the mean time IMO the team should be prioritizing defence/systems play.

Thats where I think having some size and the ability to eat up game time down low matters.
So as I have tried to suggest multiple times now...its a little thing that can (with other little things) start to move the needle in the right direction.

So yes...we just have to disagree here.
No worries.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

No offence, no special teams, average goaltending, McDavid spinning his wheels, that's a pretty mediocre start to the season. If we don't find our stride soon, playoffs, let alone competing for the cup, will be a pipe dream this season.

Oh come on. You're forgetting our annual 16 game winning streak that we have yet to have this year

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I never said that it was at the top of the list. I agree with you about the PP and PK and the rest of it.
My perspective is that the PP, PK and 5x5 scoring will work itself out once the SCF hangover resolves.
In the mean time IMO the team should be prioritizing defence/systems play.

Thats where I think having some size and the ability to eat up game time down low matters.
So as I have tried to suggest multiple times now...its a little thing that can (with other little things) start to move the needle in the right direction.

So yes...we just have to disagree here.
No worries.

Ryan is currently 59% face-off, second on the team. He's a right hand specialist with extensive experience playing under ten minutes. His role or replacement doesn't move the needle. The fact is his zero points is 6 points back of 4th in team scoring. That's how deep the substantive real issues are on this team. Add abysmal special teams. The non-performers are the big ticket top players that aren't scoring, not defending, and not bring intangible 'little things.'

It's not a myopic sub out one fourth line player for another 'energy boost' away from turning this season. Philp's day will come and the Oilers I believe won't rush to judgement to waive a $900,000 veteran specialist who's doing the job. The Oilers have had enough erosion of players and likely act cautiously with this situation and as yet NHL unproven prospect.

Big picture of my original post suggests jolting this team's drivers by reworking its lines 1 through 4. The sacred cow forward pairings deployment isn't something to hold onto with sustained underperformance in all areas.

 

[guymez]

Ryan is currently 59% face-off, second on the team. He's a right hand specialist with extensive experience playing under ten minutes. His role or replacement doesn't move the needle. The fact is his zero points is 6 points back of 4th in team scoring. That's how deep the substantive real issues are on this team. Add abysmal special teams. The non-performers are the big ticket top players that aren't scoring, not defending, and not bring intangible 'little things.'

It's not a myopic sub out one fourth line player for another 'energy boost' away from turning this season. Philp's day will come and the Oilers I believe won't rush to judgement to waive a $900,000 veteran specialist who's doing the job. The Oilers have had enough erosion of players and likely act cautiously with this situation and as yet NHL unproven prospect.

Big picture of my original post suggests jolting this team's drivers by reworking its lines 1 through 4. The sacred cow forward pairings deployment isn't something to hold onto with sustained underperformance in all areas.

So...do you recall your post to me about my position on Nurse?

It was essentially about engaging in a circular argument.
We are there once again.

I have made my points which you seem determined to completely ignore.
Time to move on.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

So...do you recall your post to me about my position on Nurse?

It was essentially about engaging in a circular argument.
We are there once again.

I have made my points which you seem determined to completely ignore.
Time to move on.

It's why I referenced again the essence of my original post - the big picture issues and what needs to change and the potential levers this coach might try which can have real effect and impact. Sidetracked by end of roster play that's not going to change this team if the difference in production between their zero point 4th line centre and being 4th in team scoring is 6 points.

Complaining about Nurse's salary isn't going to change or make it go away. He and Kulak were really good last night. Much better than 1st pair. If that can stabilize a highly problematic middle pair the organization will have options to fix this sub-standard defense.

 

[nexttothemoon]

The new blackhole theory.

Myself I'll be a skeleton standing around waiting for Drai to ever have a one shot scoring winger. Just brush the cobwebs off me please.

The best pure passer in hockey has wingers with a collective one goal. ffs.

I mean you may just be greedy... those 2 wingers combined for 6 goals last season... which works out to 1 goal every 14 games combined... so that duo is right on pace in goal scoring...

 

[guymez]

It's why I referenced again the essence of my original post - the big picture issues and what needs to change and the potential levers this coach might try which can have real effect and impact. Sidetracked by end of roster play that's not going to change this team if the difference in production between their zero point 4th line centre and being 4th in team scoring is 6 points.

Complaining about Nurse's salary isn't going to change or make it go away. He and Kulak were really good last night. Much better than 1st pair. If that can stabilize a highly problematic middle pair the organization will have options to fix this sub-standard defense.

If you want to have an honest discussion thats fine by me but misrepresenting my position isnt the way to go about it. My position with Nurse revolved around Nurse and his value as a $9.25M dman. It always has. I hope he has more good games and at some point the good games overshadow the bad games.
In any event, with all due respect, I have no interest in revisiting my Nurse discussion with you.

Now in terms of Ryan and Philp. I understand where you are coming from. I just think that you are overstating Ryan and his contribution this season and understating Philp.
Is Philp green...yes. Is that a fatal flaw...not in my opinion.
Here's why...
As I have said a few times now...if the team provides experienced wingers like Janmark and Brown then i see more upside having Philp in the lineup over Ryan.
I am a fan of Ryan as well and I have previously made posts defending him.
I dont see this necessarily being permanent either. I think that Ryan...like Perry...better serves the team by utilizing him as a part time player.
I also see Philp as a responsible (still learning though) player who is a bigger body than Ryan and has (by my eye) had better success fighting along the wall down low.
That is an important element to me and yes I do see that as helping to push the needle in the right direction.
Disagree if you like...all good.

 

[Stauf4Prez]

I said a few games into the season that Connor looked cooked, and someone (don't remember who) ripped me to shreds calling me an idiot. Well, Connor again, still looks cooked. He cannot do anything right out there. It is finally time to be a little worried about what's going on with him. Just my two cents.

 

[TheNumber4]

I thought we played well. I think we’ve BEEN playing well for a decent stretch now. The effort is there, the skating is there, we’re making plays, the defensive system is solid. The overall team is playing well. We’re generating s chances and suppressing chances like a great team.

What were lacking is on the individual level. Goaltending has been bad to average, overall subpar. McDavid hasn’t been himself, we need atleast a goal generated from him in some shape or form per game. Nuge was better last night generating chances with some nice plays but we need more. Henrique and Brown are ghosts. Bouchard is lapsing on his defensive coverage and not making it up with enough offence.

I’m liking Podz and Embersons game lately though. We just need some of the vets to starting executing.

 

[TheNumber4]

The amount of times plays die on McDs stick have been increasing steadily for like a year and a half now. It keeps going like this it will reach alarming levels. I think he needs a mental reset or something. Needs to try something different before it gets out of control.

 

[K1984]

I said a few games into the season that Connor looked cooked, and someone (don't remember who) ripped me to shreds calling me an idiot. Well, Connor again, still looks cooked. He cannot do anything right out there. It is finally time to be a little worried about what's going on with him. Just my two cents.

"Cooked" is such a ridiculous term to describe his play. He's 28 years old, he isn't "cooked," he's just playing like garbage and is probably at a low point in this respect in his career.

Was Crosby "cooked" when he was a dog in the first quarter of the 15-16 season before winning the cup?

It happens, he'll figure it out. This is from someone who couldn't be more pissed off at how he's played to start the season, and probably put more blame on him for the start than most people on this board.

 

[Cloned]

The amount of times plays die on McDs stick have been increasing steadily for like a year and a half now. It keeps going like this it will reach alarming levels. I think he needs a mental reset or something. Needs to try something different before it gets out of control.

He has a massive confidence issue right now. The McDavid of today would never even try to beat 5 Rangers at once, or try to beat a defender out wide and drive to the net. You can see it when he gets the puck; he’s not certain what he wants to do and he’s not committed to what he wants to try. He’s trying to slow things down and distribute the puck but that’s not really his game. He needs to be decisive and try to beat defenders, that’s his game and always has been.

And it’s probably the first time in his career he’s ever had one because he’s so used to dominating.

So naturally he doesn’t really know the best way to handle it right now.

Time for the Oilers’ sports psychologists to earn their paycheck.

 

[TheNumber4]

He has a massive confidence issue right now. The McDavid of today would never even try to beat 5 Rangers at once, or try to beat a defender out wide and drive to the net. You can see it when he gets the puck; he’s not certain what he wants to do and he’s not committed to what he wants to try. He’s trying to slow things down and distribute the puck but that’s not really his game. He needs to be decisive and try to beat defenders, that’s his game and always has been.

And it’s probably the first time in his career he’s ever had one because he’s so used to dominating.

So naturally he doesn’t really know the best way to handle it right now.

Time for the Oilers’ sports psychologists to earn their paycheck.

I’m not surprised that his confidence in going 1 on 2 or 1 on 5 like that Rags moment is low. He gets stifled trying it more often then not, loses the puck and it’s out of our zone. But whatever, that’s just highlight reel stuff and we know he can do put up 120pts+ without doing that on the regular. And his sniping disappeared from his game like 2 years ago.

What I’m most concerned about his is passing. Like how many times do we see him pass directly into a defenders stick.

I’m hoping it’s all just confidence. I worry that years of the NHL allowing him to be a punching bag might be catching up with him too. He’s just a step less quick and it’s throwing his game off in ways he will need to readjust to.

 

[Soundwave]

Every player has slumps.

Oilers fans are spoiled because McDavid has only had like 4 or 5 slumps in his entire career and they tend to be short, but Kucherov, MacKinnon, Crosby, Matthews, Ovechkin, all of these other guys go through it far more regularly.

11 points in 13 games for Matthews and no one bats an eye lash but 10 points in 11 games for McDavid is a five alarm emergency, lol.