Oilers hire Stan Bowman as GM & EVP of Hockey Ops

FiveTacos

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Oct 2, 2017
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It wasn’t denied my McDonagh or the HR dept that McDonagh brought the issue to.

McDonough said there was discussion about who would handle it, not that he said he would. And no one else recalled McDonough saying that.

So essentially Bowman said McDonagh would handle it, and 3 weeks later he did exactly that bringing the case to HR dept where Aldrich was then Fired. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that what Bowman said had happened in that meeting actually happened cause you know, it happened.

Well since we're reading between the lines,

Several accounts of the meeting said that it was discussed whether or not to table it until after the playoffs. None of the accounts of the meeting had anyone objecting to that. Obviously seeing this guy around the team for three weeks and no one raising any question about it, despite (according to Cheveldayoff) two separate accusations being put forward at that meeting ...

... well "it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out" that everyone was totally on board with how they ultimately handled (or didn't handle) it. Hell it may very well have been a group decision, and certainly not a single one of those people seemed to have a problem with the idea of waiting a few weeks to deal with it. And no one cared enough to follow up after the guy left.
 

TheNumber4

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Nov 11, 2011
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McDonough said there was discussion about who would handle it, not that he said he would. And no one else recalled McDonough saying that.



Well since we're reading between the lines,

Several accounts of the meeting said that it was discussed whether or not to table it until after the playoffs. None of the accounts of the meeting had anyone objecting to that. Obviously seeing this guy around the team for three weeks and no one raising any question about it, despite (according to Cheveldayoff) two separate accusations being put forward at that meeting ...

... well "it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out" that everyone was totally on board with how they ultimately handled (or didn't handle) it. Hell it may very well have been a group decision, and certainly not a single one of those people seemed to have a problem with the idea of waiting a few weeks to deal with it. And no one cared enough to follow up after the guy left.
Yep. There was a discussion to delay the handling of the situation. Probably Quennville was one who made a specific point of it. That was negligent and bad management, as noted by the report and as noted in the NhLs reasoning why they were all (mostly) fired and suspended.

But also in that report, it was also confirmed that McDonagh was the person who “handled it” by bringing it to HR, exactly as Bowman laid out in his understanding of that meeting.
 

FiveTacos

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Oct 2, 2017
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Yep. There was a discussion to delay the handling of the situation. Probably Quennville was one who made a specific point of it. That was negligent and bad management, as noted by the report and as noted in the NhLs reasoning why they were all (mostly) fired and suspended.

Which is why I hope Q never coaches again regardless of suspension status.

But also in that report, it was also confirmed that McDonagh was the person who “handled it” by bringing it to HR, exactly as Bowman laid out in his understanding of that meeting.

And he did it after the playoffs, exactly as discussed in the meeting. Was it a group decision? Don't know, but it sort of reads that way. If it wasn't, did anyone object? No, that much is pretty clear. Not a single one of them in the report was mentioned as expressing any urgency. And no one seemed to question why Aldrich was still around ... because they already knew why, they had discussed tabling it and then did just that.

As such any of those guys saying they would have handled it differently doesn't really hold water, or that they didn't know how things were going to be handled. One consistent thing across all the statements from those at the meeting was that the primary concern being expressed was about the impact on their Cup run. Not concern that a sick person might be on staff.
 

ps241

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For those of you like me who are reluctant to weigh in to the deep end without reading the Jenner & Block report, it is far less intimidating than I thought.

The report is about 68 pages (plus references) in length but it’s carved up into sections. I am working my way through most of it but starting on page 38 it gets into Section VII The Blackhawks knowledge of What occurred ending on page 54. Then section VIII Blackhawks Response During the 2010 Playoffs and Later. That goes up to page 69.

These pages are not dense legal documents, they are much less wordy accounting of events that are quick reading (notwithstanding the disturbing content).
 
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Jared Dunn

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I don't know if "cancel culture" is thriving or not, but you highlighted the problem with it. It's virtue signaling based on opportunity. Punishment predicated on movable boundaries. Selective outrage often based on politics.
Mitchell Miller has been blacklisted because he has never attempted to atone for his reprehensible actions and went as far as lying about the lengths he took, boo hoo hope he's ok
 
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JPT

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When did it become "virtue signaling" to call a POS a POS?

Just curious...when that became a faux pas instead of sticking up for those who can't stick up for themselves?

Weird stuff.
People who would rather overlook bad actions (or delight in them) than possibly be seen as siding with their perceived enemies have always found some way to downplay the seriousness of the other side. "Virtue signaling" and "performative outrage" are just the fad terms at the moment.
 

ps241

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For the record, I am both a victim of abuse and have also worked with and been friends with probably hundreds or thousands of other people in this situation. While Bowman may have been forgiven by Beach, or Beach may have supported him getting the job with the Oilers, and while Kennedy has said he's changed and helped out a lot, neither of these things are universal to every situation. If Beach forgave him, great. That's his own personal choice. It doesn't mean that any fans or other victims have to do the same, of which I might remind you there are at least two more that Aldritch was convicted of.

I believe in second chances and I believe in rehabilitation and not punishment, and if Bowman has met the criteria for that then great, I'd be more than happy to see him rejoin the industry and work his way back to where he was, or to go off and be a millionaire somewhere else. That doesn't mean I think he should be given a high profile GM job that pays a lot though. None of us know how true these things Bowman and Kennedy has said, nor do we know every thought and emotion that goes on in their heads or how his relationship is with Beach and the other victims.

People are upset that a millionaire is going to continue being a millionaire and that he's been given one of the best teams in the League to handle. I don't think there's any "rage baiting" going on here, except perhaps by some of the deleted posts in here about how Bowman did nothing wrong, or that it's Beach's fault that Aldritch went on to assault more kids,


This is not true and is dangerous misinformation. Victims are the hardest people to get to report a crime, and it's almost always someone else who has reached out to a victim and gives them support and the ability to get away from their abuser. You know what organization is often times great for doing that? The police. And don't get me wrong, American Police especially can be awful with victims. But they can also be good and even in the case of the situation that has been talked about here where the victim doesn't want to press charges or have any kind of investigation or support, calling the police still leaves a paper trail and allows for external investigations to be done that don't involve that specific victim at all, and can also provide evidence to be used.

Just because an investigation happens doesn't mean the victim is going to be publicized in the media or that everyone is going to know who they are. In super high profile situations like this one, yes it's more likely that happens since we're dealing with a high profile prospect of a sports team, but it's certainly not a requirement or part of the law and police investigate crimes that don't have victims or witnesses all the time. In many cases this is related to property, but you don't have to have 300 witnesses to car jacking to prosecute someone who stole 300 cars.

In any case the absolute best possible thing you can do in any instances of abuse is to give the victim support, follow up with them, and give them resources to escape the abuse. Calling the police, CPS, or other organizations that deal with the law, or shelters, rape crisis centres, or specific organizations in your area is one of the best things you can do for a victim, especially if they aren't being abused by a spouse/partner/someone they live with or has major control over them.

Yes, a lot of victims don't want to be publicized or tell anyone because of a variety of reasons. But that doesn't really help them, does it? As a victim your mentality often becomes that this doesn't make any sense, so it must either be something I'm doing, or there's some other reason for it. Because abuse doesn't make sense. We often think that if we just argue the point better, or if we stop doing the thing they're yelling at us for, or if we're just better in school or our job, or if we just don't report it as a rape and make them breakfast like we would after any other one night stand, that the abuse isn't really abuse after all, it's totally logical and we can cope with that better. You can be so gaslit by somebody that even the most basic of things become mistakes that you shouldn't make that justify your "abuse". This can't be abuse because they love you, they bought you a car, they don't make you pay rent, the birthed you, whatever it is. You hear it over and over again.

My point is that it's incredibly, incredibly hard for any one person to break out of those mentalities. The easiest way, by far, is to get support and to not be in that situation any more. THAT is why in a lot of cases (and no, not all of them) involving an agency or someone else is an extremely good thing to do. It forces the situation to change. If you have someone who follows up with you every week they're more likely to notice patterns of abuse and you're MUCH more likely to have evidence that doesn't just stem from your testimony and he said/she said talk.

The main place this can backfire is with spousal or domestic abusers who have much more control over your life and live with you, and therefore likely have access to you more than anyone else. But that's kind of a different story, because in this thread we're not talking about that.

The Blackhawks especially failed at taking these steps to satisfaction, and while Bowman is certainly by far not the only one to blame, he does share some of that blame. I wouldn't put him as the prime reason for any of this by any means, it's just a fact that no one really did what was needed to satisfaction when the situation happened.

I have to say that as someone who just read the entire thread at once it's pretty insane to me that people are crediting Bowman with the moves Tallon made as GM because he had so much clout with the organization that Tallon- the real GM- was forced to go along with his ideas, but 30 pages later there are people acting like informing his superior was the only thing he could do and that if he did anything else he would be fired by the president or something?

This is a very good post and I learned some things. Thank you for sharing.
 

thegazelle

Registered User
Nov 11, 2019
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535
For the record, I am both a victim of abuse and have also worked with and been friends with probably hundreds or thousands of other people in this situation. While Bowman may have been forgiven by Beach, or Beach may have supported him getting the job with the Oilers, and while Kennedy has said he's changed and helped out a lot, neither of these things are universal to every situation. If Beach forgave him, great. That's his own personal choice. It doesn't mean that any fans or other victims have to do the same, of which I might remind you there are at least two more that Aldritch was convicted of.

I believe in second chances and I believe in rehabilitation and not punishment, and if Bowman has met the criteria for that then great, I'd be more than happy to see him rejoin the industry and work his way back to where he was, or to go off and be a millionaire somewhere else. That doesn't mean I think he should be given a high profile GM job that pays a lot though. None of us know how true these things Bowman and Kennedy has said, nor do we know every thought and emotion that goes on in their heads or how his relationship is with Beach and the other victims.

People are upset that a millionaire is going to continue being a millionaire and that he's been given one of the best teams in the League to handle. I don't think there's any "rage baiting" going on here, except perhaps by some of the deleted posts in here about how Bowman did nothing wrong, or that it's Beach's fault that Aldritch went on to assault more kids,


This is not true and is dangerous misinformation. Victims are the hardest people to get to report a crime, and it's almost always someone else who has reached out to a victim and gives them support and the ability to get away from their abuser. You know what organization is often times great for doing that? The police. And don't get me wrong, American Police especially can be awful with victims. But they can also be good and even in the case of the situation that has been talked about here where the victim doesn't want to press charges or have any kind of investigation or support, calling the police still leaves a paper trail and allows for external investigations to be done that don't involve that specific victim at all, and can also provide evidence to be used.

Just because an investigation happens doesn't mean the victim is going to be publicized in the media or that everyone is going to know who they are. In super high profile situations like this one, yes it's more likely that happens since we're dealing with a high profile prospect of a sports team, but it's certainly not a requirement or part of the law and police investigate crimes that don't have victims or witnesses all the time. In many cases this is related to property, but you don't have to have 300 witnesses to car jacking to prosecute someone who stole 300 cars.

In any case the absolute best possible thing you can do in any instances of abuse is to give the victim support, follow up with them, and give them resources to escape the abuse. Calling the police, CPS, or other organizations that deal with the law, or shelters, rape crisis centres, or specific organizations in your area is one of the best things you can do for a victim, especially if they aren't being abused by a spouse/partner/someone they live with or has major control over them.

Yes, a lot of victims don't want to be publicized or tell anyone because of a variety of reasons. But that doesn't really help them, does it? As a victim your mentality often becomes that this doesn't make any sense, so it must either be something I'm doing, or there's some other reason for it. Because abuse doesn't make sense. We often think that if we just argue the point better, or if we stop doing the thing they're yelling at us for, or if we're just better in school or our job, or if we just don't report it as a rape and make them breakfast like we would after any other one night stand, that the abuse isn't really abuse after all, it's totally logical and we can cope with that better. You can be so gaslit by somebody that even the most basic of things become mistakes that you shouldn't make that justify your "abuse". This can't be abuse because they love you, they bought you a car, they don't make you pay rent, the birthed you, whatever it is. You hear it over and over again.

My point is that it's incredibly, incredibly hard for any one person to break out of those mentalities. The easiest way, by far, is to get support and to not be in that situation any more. THAT is why in a lot of cases (and no, not all of them) involving an agency or someone else is an extremely good thing to do. It forces the situation to change. If you have someone who follows up with you every week they're more likely to notice patterns of abuse and you're MUCH more likely to have evidence that doesn't just stem from your testimony and he said/she said talk.

The main place this can backfire is with spousal or domestic abusers who have much more control over your life and live with you, and therefore likely have access to you more than anyone else. But that's kind of a different story, because in this thread we're not talking about that.

The Blackhawks especially failed at taking these steps to satisfaction, and while Bowman is certainly by far not the only one to blame, he does share some of that blame. I wouldn't put him as the prime reason for any of this by any means, it's just a fact that no one really did what was needed to satisfaction when the situation happened.

I have to say that as someone who just read the entire thread at once it's pretty insane to me that people are crediting Bowman with the moves Tallon made as GM because he had so much clout with the organization that Tallon- the real GM- was forced to go along with his ideas, but 30 pages later there are people acting like informing his superior was the only thing he could do and that if he did anything else he would be fired by the president or something?
Thank you for posting and your courage in sharing your experience and insights. Your post was thoughtful, introspective, articulate and provides a much needed unique perspective in all the nuances of the issue for which many people (included myself) have not considered. Thank you.
 
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