Oilers hire Stan Bowman as GM & EVP of Hockey Ops

[Space umpire]

Yeah that Jeremy Jacobs is such a classy guy.

I’ve dealt with him across a negotiation table.

 

[Mr Positive]

First of all, I think hockey fans have a skewed perception of what a GM is, a GM is not organizationally the "boss". Their job is to put together a playing roster and even within that context they have limits and answer to superiors above them.

A GM should never have to be in charge of handling a HR situation well outside the context of a hockey matter like this was, that is way beyond their job, the president of the team and higher ups beyond him should handle matters like this and the president of the Blackhawks in this case told Bowman straight up that he would handle the matter.

Beyond that in cases like this where the party that is alleging abuse is not willing to go to police and the other party is claiming the encounter was consensual, you pretty much have no case whatsoever. The police can't do a whole lot in that case, all you would accomplish is dragging the person who doesn't want to go to the police into a situation they don't want to be put into. Unfortunately the fact is in these cases the person who's been wronged needs to speak up for there to be any kind of foundation of charges that will stick.

You have no case if the accuser isn't willing to go to police. There are lots of examples of cases where the alleged victim in cases like this doesn't want to cooperate with police, the police basically have to drop the case, same thing in domestic assault cases where the police are called but then the alleged victim in the case doesn't want to press charges, the police basically have to drop the case.

Part of being in a democracy is that we expect individual responsibility. We are expected to be moral, and that's what separates us from dictatorships. I do hold Bowman responsible to a degree. It's similar to the military. In a democracy if a superior officer commands their soldiers to commit a war crime, we expect that the people will refuse to carry out because of our strong individual rights, and if they do they can't hide behind a chain of command. I do put blame on Bowman for not acting like a moral citizen, but yes I do put a lot more blame on McDonaugh. I don't know exactly what Bowman's penalty should have been but he did suffer for what he did and made amends with Beach and did good community service with Kennedy. So I've learned to accept the hire. It will be a good one imo

I would like Beach to be publicly supportive of Bowman as well. He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to of course

 

[Rabid Ranger]

First of all, I think hockey fans have a skewed perception of what a GM is, a GM is not organizationally the "boss". Their job is to put together a playing roster and even within that context they have limits and answer to superiors above them.

A GM should never have to be in charge of handling a HR situation well outside the context of a hockey matter like this was, that is way beyond their job, the president of the team and higher ups beyond him should handle matters like this and the president of the Blackhawks in this case told Bowman straight up that he would handle the matter.

Beyond that in cases like this where the party that is alleging abuse is not willing to go to police and the other party is claiming the encounter was consensual, you pretty much have no case whatsoever. The police can't do a whole lot in that case, all you would accomplish is dragging the person who doesn't want to go to the police into a situation they don't want to be put into. Unfortunately the fact is in these cases the person who's been wronged needs to speak up for there to be any kind of foundation of charges that will stick.

You have no case if the accuser isn't willing to go to police. There are lots of examples of cases where the alleged victim in cases like this doesn't want to cooperate with police, the police basically have to drop the case, same thing in domestic assault cases where the police are called but then the alleged victim in the case doesn't want to press charges, the police basically have to drop the case.

Good post. I think many of the Hawks executives failed as people in this situation and I'm not sure if Bowman in particular is all that great of a hire, but to expect a pro sports team to somehow function differently than any other corporation that has a HR department is odd.

 

[TheDoldrums]

At the end of the day barely any of the Oilers fans here diligently defending this hire would be doing the same if it were any other team that hired him. Fandom is fanaticism, it’s in the name. You make justifications so you can keep following your team with the same passion.

 

[Soundwave]

"Cover up" is also I think a mischaracterization of what actually happened. Bowman didn't "cover up" anything, his superiors who should have been in charge of the situation (as it goes well beyond the responsibilities of a GM) stated clearly that they would handle the situation, and that was it.

A "cover up" would mean he was like hiding evidence or trying to mislead in some way, and that never occurred. He trusted the people that should have been handling the situation to handle the situation after they said (well) they would do exactly that. His mistake was thinking they would do their job.

If he actually covered things up, 0% chance Kyle Beach would want to hear a damn thing from Bowman let alone letting him come visit the team he's coaching now so the two of them can work together.

Enough with the hyperbolic and phony outrage, it misconstrues what actually happened.

 

[FiveTacos]

Oh spare me the condescending bullshit, please. No one is claiming to be a pillar of f***ing anything, nor did I ask if you apologize for anything. I don't care. You are entitled to your opinions, even if I think they are wrong. I get to share my perspective on the situation, and doing so doesn't mean I'm falsely outraged or that I think I'm better than anyone else.

It's also stunning that after all this and seeing the near universal level of disgust most everyone has for those involved, anyone would out themselves by saying most everyone would have done the same thing ... which typically means "I would have done the same thing ". Even after people involved admit they should have done something different.

And I have no idea when it somehow became virtue signaling to be upset at people who stuck their collective head in the sand about a sexual assault because, well, hockey is so incredibly important I guess. Strange hill to want to die on.

I also think it's rich that you think him saying "we did an internal investigation" would change the way people think about him. That's like the police saying "yeah we did an internal investigation".

It sure beats, "we let him have the choice to resign or be investigated." Which effectively says, if you're a predator, we're fine with you going to do it elsewhere, and because we don't investigate it we can claim plausible deniability and not be sued by future victims for knowingly allowing a predator to take another job and victimize more people. Because if he was innocent, then he should have been fine with an investigation. They basically got confirmation that he was a predator and were fine with it as long as he was gone.

EVERYTHING they did was with the idea of covering their own asses, not in protecting anyone. In Bowman's case, he may or may not have made the decisions (he claims not to, but he had every reason to lie). If you think that's all fine and dandy, then I don't know what to tell you.

If they really wanted to, they could have investigated, then fired him, made public that he was fired for a sexual assault incident, but not named the victim because they wanted to stay anonymous, and at the very least it would have made it difficult for him to find another job. We knew Graham James was a scumbag long before we knew all the victims, hell Fleury didn't reveal himself as a victim for years and years. Outing someone as a predator does not mean they have to prosecute or to expose the victim. Whether the victim wants to come forward is a problem for the DA, but Beach already came forward TO THE TEAM and they chose to really do nothing but protect themselves legally. Hiding behind, "well he didn't want to go to the cops so they can't really do anything," is apologist BS.

 

[Soundwave]

It's also stunning that after all this and seeing the near universal level of disgust most everyone has for those involved, anyone would out themselves by saying most everyone would have done the same thing ... which typically means "I would have done the same thing ". Even after people involved admit they should have done something different.

And I have no idea when it somehow became virtue signaling to be upset at people who stuck their collective head in the sand about a sexual assault because, well, hockey is so incredibly important I guess. Strange hill to want to die on.



It sure beats, "we let him have the choice to resign or be investigated." Which effectively says, if you're a predator, we're fine with you going to do it elsewhere, and because we don't investigate it we can claim plausible deniability and not be sued by future victims for knowingly allowing a predator to take another job and victimize more people. Because if he was innocent, then he should have been fine with an investigation. They basically got confirmation that he was a predator and were fine with it as long as he was gone.

EVERYTHING they did was with the idea of covering their own asses, not in protecting anyone. In Bowman's case, he may or may not have made the decisions (he claims not to, but he had every reason to lie). If you think that's all fine and dandy, then I don't know what to tell you.

If they really wanted to, they could have investigated, then fired him, made public that he was fired for a sexual assault incident, but not named the victim because they wanted to stay anonymous, and at the very least it would have made it difficult for him to find another job. We knew Graham James was a scumbag long before we knew all the victims, hell Fleury didn't reveal himself as a victim for years and years. Outing someone as a predator does not mean they have to prosecute or to expose the victim. Whether the victim wants to come forward is a problem for the DA, but Beach already came forward TO THE TEAM and they chose to really do nothing but protect themselves legally. Hiding behind, "well he didn't want to go to the cops so they can't really do anything," is apologist BS.

There is no "universal level of disgust" because some corner of the internet deems it so.

Case in point, there's a radical double standard with almost no one giving a crap that Chevyaldaov being the Jets GM for example. So let me get this straight, he can have a job for knowing the same thing Bowman did and trusting (like Bowman did) that his superiors would handle the situation after being explictly told that very thing by a senior member of the org.

So Bowman should be banned for life, but most of these people really if we're being honest don't have shit to say about Chevy.

The facat of the matter is the vitriol should be focused on one person specifically, and that's the person who (I dunno, maybe a crazy concept here) actually assaulted someone.

 

[JPT]

It's always, always, f***ing always whataboutism lol

And I'm really not sure where some of you got the idea that you get to gatekeep the acceptable focuses of our criticism, but you don't.

 

[Mattilaus]

It’s hard for me to believe some people here would force a victim into revealing his identity publicly against his wishes who was just recently forced to commit unwanted sexual acts and think it’s the right thing to do.

I hope none of you who think that get a job in management managing anyone I care about. Or really anyone at all.

Are there not other unnamed victims? Crazy, it's almost like you don't necessarily need to reveal your identity to the public. Nobody is saying he should be forced to reveal his identity, they are saying it's not necessary to do so and still proceed the right way.

It sounds like you'd be the bad manager is you think whenever anyone comes to you with a complaint, that you need to publicly reveal that to everyone.

 

[thaman8765678]

At the end of the day barely any of the Oilers fans here diligently defending this hire would be doing the same if it were any other team that hired him. Fandom is fanaticism, it’s in the name. You make justifications so you can keep following your team with the same passion.

Yep, these Oilers fans are trying to tell themselves that this is not that bad. So that they can still cheer for a pos and disgusting organization.

He covered up a sexual assault. And then recommended the guy for another job at another organization. He should be in jail, not GM of a hockey team.

 

[Soundwave]

Yep, these Oilers fans are trying to tell themselves that this is not that bad. So that they can still cheer for a pos and disgusting organization.

He covered up a sexual assault. And then recommended the guy for another job at another organization. He should be in jail, not GM of a hockey team.

No he didn't recommend the guy for another job at another organization. Do your research and know what you're talking about first.

Bowman's involvement is basically he found out the full extent of what happened at a meeting with other senior Blackhawks staff and he was told by his boss that he (the boss) would handle the situation.

 

[57special]

I'm mystified as to how the Oilers could think that Bowman is the best possible choice to GM their team, leaving aside for the moment the Beach situation. If I was an EDM fan I would be shaking my head...what a way to follow up on a great season, and the early, good, summer moves by Jackson prior to this one.

So, it's either someone in EDM is seeing something that most of us are not, or they are woefully out of touch.

 

[strattonius]

There is no "universal level of disgust" because some corner of the internet deems it so.

Case in point, there's a radical double standard with almost no one giving a crap that Chevyaldaov being the Jets GM for example. So let me get this straight, he can have a job for knowing the same thing Bowman did and trusting (like Bowman did) that his superiors would handle the situation after being explictly told that very thing by a senior member of the org.

So Bowman should be banned for life, but most of these people really if we're being honest don't have shit to say about Chevy.

The facat of the matter is the vitriol should be focused on one person specifically, and that's the person who (I dunno, maybe a crazy concept here) actually assaulted someone.

The vitriol is focused exactly where it needs to be. Stan Bowman was just hired and people are rightfully pissed off he is given another opportunity in the NHL. It's actually disgusting.

It's weird hearing people enable how Bowman handled the entire situation. Nice hill to die on I guess but keep going... maybe another one thousand posts for you in this thread and people will agree Bowman did all he could and we should all move on.

 

[Soundwave]

The vitriol is focused exactly where it needs to be. Stan Bowman was just hired and people are rightfully pissed off he is given another opportunity in the NHL. It's actually disgusting.

It's weird hearing people enable how Bowman handled the entire situation. Nice hill to die on I guess but keep going... maybe another one thousand posts for you in this thread and people will agree Bowman did all he could and we should all move on.

He's admitted he should have done more and has met with Kyle Beach and Beach invited him to spend time together with the team that Beach now coaches.

What did anyone else in the Hawks org do? Anyone else reach out to Kyle and spend time with him? As far as I can tell, Bowman has done more work on this than anyone else. Chevyadalov is the GM of the Jets for years now and gets a free pass I guess?

If Kyle Beach is willing to give Bowman a chance, I don't like the hire but I will give him a chance. I don't even think Bowman is even a bad person, he made a mistake in trusting that people who should be in charge of a situation like that would handle it after they told him they would do that.

If I'm going to be pissed off at anyone it'll be at the one person who deserves 99.9% of it and that's Aldridge.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

I don't mean to necessarily blame the victim, but everything I said is true. Beach was the only person with any kind of realistic chance to stop Aldrich from abusing other people.

That's not victim blaming, it's a sad fact of reality.

Everyone who says that any of the Blackhawks could have done things differently may be correct, but nothing of consequence happens without Beach coming forward with his story.

 

[Mattilaus]

I don't mean to necessarily blame the victim, but everything I said is true. Beach was the only person with any kind of realistic chance to stop Aldrich from abusing other people.

That's not victim blaming, it's a sad fact of reality.

Everyone who says that any of the Blackhawks could have done things differently may be correct, but nothing of consequence happens without Beach coming forward with his story.

He did come forward with his story, to his superiors, like he was supposed to. Like any workplace tells employees to do.

 

[Memento]

i know it seems heartless, but ultimately Kyle Beach is the one ultimately responsible for the next victims. Bowman et al are clueless, but without Beach’s cooperation the Blackhawks could shout it from the rooftops but ultimately the trainer will get hired somewhere unless he’s arrested and prosecuted.

It sucks to be a victim, but it sucks more to see the same thing happen to someone else because of the shame of being a sexual assault victim.

Does Bowman share any responsibility? Yes, but not enough for a lifetime ban. Ultimately he failed to report a crime, the same thing Kyle Beach did.

You've got to be kidding me. You're literally blaming a rape victim for...being a rape victim. Do you realize just how hard it is for rape victims to come out? Do you realize that most rape cases aren't even prosecuted because of how hard it is for a victim to come forward, that the cases that do come forward - even if the victim does everything right - can be thrown out (read; Turner, Brock)? Do you realize that it's even more difficult for male rape victims to come out?

This is not Kyle Beach's fault because he tried to go to someone. Bowman failed Beach, Black Ace 2, the interns that Aldrich sexually harassed, and the teenaged boy. Quenneville failed them. The entire f***ing organization failed them. I will reiterate: this is not the fault of the victims, and posts like yours are the reason why rape cases normally fail, why people are too scared to come out and admit they were raped.

Please tell me you weren't thinking with this post. Please.

 

[Soundwave]

He did come forward with his story, to his superiors, like he was supposed to. Like any workplace tells employees to do.

He didn't want to go to police (understandable but still), which I think is the point, without that you basically have nothing for the police to work with.

That's just the reality of the situation, a 2nd hand account from someone who wasn't even present for the event in question doesn't amount to a hill of beans in terms of something actionable the police can work with. That's just the reality.

 

[67 others]

I’ve dealt with him across a negotiation table.

Did your hot dog vendor union finally get a bump above minimum wage?

J/k lol

 

[Crow]

Are there not other unnamed victims? Crazy, it's almost like you don't necessarily need to reveal your identity to the public. Nobody is saying he should be forced to reveal his identity, they are saying it's not necessary to do so and still proceed the right way.

It sounds like you'd be the bad manager is you think whenever anyone comes to you with a complaint, that you need to publicly reveal that to everyone.

Going to the authorities would require you to tell the police who was assaulted or it would be completely pointless. His privacy would then be violated and his wishes disregarded. Unless you think bowman should have gone to the police and said “hey I heard this guy got sexually assaulted by Brad Aldrich but I can’t tell you who it is.” You can explain to me what you think would happen from there.

Your second paragraph is among the dumbest most backward things I’ve read in years. You’re accusing me of what I’m arguing against doing and what your advocating for.

I explained what i would have liked to see bowman do already and it’s very simple. Make sure his bosses agree to suspend BA immediately and indefinitely pending an investigation from a qualified 3rd party, likely a law group who would be compelled to observe an NDA and respect the privacy of all those involved. That’s what I would do if I were in this situation now as a manager. If the situation were different and the victim wanted to go to the authorities I would of course be in full support of their decision.

 

[Frank Drebin]

At the end of the day barely any of the Oilers fans here diligently defending this hire would be doing the same if it were any other team that hired him. Fandom is fanaticism, it’s in the name. You make justifications so you can keep following your team with the same passion.

Some of us understand this and save the rest of the world from the sanctimonious bs.

In 10 years time I'm positive that every single nhl team will have a history of employing a player or manager with varying degrees of dirtbaggishness that is all too common in NHL circles.

But what you don't know about your team doesnt' hurt you right now I guess.

 

[Space umpire]

Did your hot dog vendor union finally get a bump above minimum wage?

J/k lol

He owns Delaware North. I was a contract negotiator for the union that covers employees on the Kennedy space center.
His company operated the visitors complex, bus tours and souvenir stands.

 

[GOilers88]

It's also stunning that after all this and seeing the near universal level of disgust most everyone has for those involved, anyone would out themselves by saying most everyone would have done the same thing ... which typically means "I would have done the same thing ". Even after people involved admit they should have done something different.

And I have no idea when it somehow became virtue signaling to be upset at people who stuck their collective head in the sand about a sexual assault because, well, hockey is so incredibly important I guess. Strange hill to want to die on.



It sure beats, "we let him have the choice to resign or be investigated." Which effectively says, if you're a predator, we're fine with you going to do it elsewhere, and because we don't investigate it we can claim plausible deniability and not be sued by future victims for knowingly allowing a predator to take another job and victimize more people. Because if he was innocent, then he should have been fine with an investigation. They basically got confirmation that he was a predator and were fine with it as long as he was gone.

EVERYTHING they did was with the idea of covering their own asses, not in protecting anyone. In Bowman's case, he may or may not have made the decisions (he claims not to, but he had every reason to lie). If you think that's all fine and dandy, then I don't know what to tell you.

If they really wanted to, they could have investigated, then fired him, made public that he was fired for a sexual assault incident, but not named the victim because they wanted to stay anonymous, and at the very least it would have made it difficult for him to find another job. We knew Graham James was a scumbag long before we knew all the victims, hell Fleury didn't reveal himself as a victim for years and years. Outing someone as a predator does not mean they have to prosecute or to expose the victim. Whether the victim wants to come forward is a problem for the DA, but Beach already came forward TO THE TEAM and they chose to really do nothing but protect themselves legally. Hiding behind, "well he didn't want to go to the cops so they can't really do anything," is apologist BS.

Nobody is "outing" themselves as anything. Insinuating people are rape apologists is f***ing ridiculous.

Fact is you, I and most people have no idea how they would react to a situation like that unless they were dropped right into the middle of it. Sitting on the internet proclaiming you'd do this or you would have done that is absolutely meaningless and irrelevant to anything, because the fact is most people have no idea what they would do. It's so easy to sit here and wave your righteous flag proclaiming moral superiority, but it's all just a bunch of blah blah blah.

That's exactly the f***ing point. People acknowledging they made mistakes and would do things differently. As is highly likely the case with most people across the board.

 

[JPT]

A lot of short cowboys or a lot of high horses here
You decide

Do you consider anyone having principles and sticking to them to be riding their high horse?

 

[GOilers88]

Do you consider anyone having principles and sticking to them to be riding their high horse?

Proclaiming principles on the internet is not the same as standing by them under real, tangible duress.

I know plenty of really good people, but to insinuate every one of them would just instinctually react a certain way to some extenuating circumstance is absolute delusion. We all hope that everyone would just automatically and without hesitation do nothing but the exact right thing in a situation regardless of how it may effect them or those around them moving forward. But it's very clearly not the case in the real world, and that doesnt mean they just aren't good people.