OT: Oilers Entertainment Group (OEG) picking battles with small business owners

[Tom Collins]

The place isn't a sportsbar at all. Cool little hipster joint on 124 street. Meh, the owner got a little free advertising out of it.

Nor surprising the media outlet that ran with the story was the CBC. The one place guaranteed to have no clue about business.



His clientele that didn't seem like it would be much into watching hockey. Only been there once, but it was not a place I'd go to watch a game. That's fine he can stick to his niche, but why pretend you care about the Oilers when you are just lagging them for free media.

Exactly. To comply he has two quick and easy options: remove "Oilers" from his posters, or stock some crappy Molson product. He doesn't have to stop airing the games, doesn't have to stop pairing beer deals with game times, and doesn't even have to limit what beers he offers on special during those times. Yet he whinges to the media, and some folks jump on it "Because Katz." I'm not a huge fan of our Team's owner personally either, but like Bettman, it's the "hip cat" thing to talk smack about him - even when it's unwarranted.

 

[shoop]

Exactly. To comply he has two quick and easy options: remove "Oilers" from his posters, or stock some crappy Molson product. He doesn't have to stop airing the games, doesn't have to stop pairing beer deals with game times, and doesn't even have to limit what beers he offers on special during those times. Yet he whinges to the media, and some folks jump on it "Because Katz." I'm not a huge fan of our Team's owner personally either, but like Bettman, it's the "hip cat" thing to talk smack about him - even when it's unwarranted.

Hip cat says it perfectly. This quote from the Arcadia web site screams hipster dbag.

Arcadia isn’t just a name or an idea, it’s a dream. A dream where two true hearts, minds, and melodies belong. Arcadia is where we all live together in happiness surrounded by fantastic food, beer, music, and conversation. However, it's most importantly a place where we all come together and help each other out. So, Whatever you may call it- a Socialist Utopia, or Sweden……….we invite you to join us.

You can't make up stuff that lame.

 

[PinSeeker]

I kind of get the sponsor relationship thing, I think this happens often just finally got out in the media. The one thing I still have a major issue with is the awful beverage selection at Rogers Place. Go to Rogers Arena in Vancouver and your choices are incredibly diverse - that includes wine as well, where in Edmonton Barefoot swill is all you'll get unless you are in Club or Sportsnet (even then it is barely a step up to Wolf Blass/Trapiche).

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hip cat says it perfectly. This quote from the Arcadia web site screams hipster dbag.



You can't make up stuff that lame.

I could be wrong on this but I believe that the name of the Establishment was taken from the book of the same name and or possibly the Tom Stoppard adapted play. The quote sounds like part of the content of that work. So that the name and mission statement are possibly pulled from, or inspired from that work, in fairness. So in that sense its a bit tongue in cheek play on the play if you will. At least that's how I read it having read the book and seen the play.

Another parallel is that in the quote you got from the site if you read furtherAlbion is also referred to. Albion is an archaic name for England. Arcadia is a mythically derived name for a place (England) as seen by libertine minds. This concept was also made into a song around a decade ago. The latter part I had to google to find out.

In anycase the theme of the quote is obvious play on words. Just meant to be good natured fun.

 

[shoop]

I could be wrong on this but I believe that the name of the Establishment was taken from the book of the same name and or possibly the Tom Stoppard adapted play. The quote sounds like part of the content of that work. So that the name and mission statement are possibly pulled from, or inspired from that work, in fairness. So in that sense its a bit tongue in cheek play on the play if you will. At least that's how I read it having read the book and seen the play.

Hipster pretentiousness doesn't make a good sportsbar. Internet humblebrags about some play centred on a character trying to convince another character to solve a high level math theorem? Yeah, that's appealing to the masses.

If the owner of this joint were worried about fairness or supporting the team he'd play by the rules. He isn't. Just worried about getting free publicity.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hipster pretentiousness doesn't make a good sportsbar. Internet humblebrags about some play centred on a character trying to convince another character to solve a high level math theorem? Yeah, that's appealing to the masses.

If the owner of this joint were worried about fairness or supporting the team he'd play by the rules. He isn't. Just worried about getting free publicity.

Read the edit. The quote is more focused on the latter theme I mention, if not the song derived from the theme. Also, to get the quote one would be familiar with such terms as Albion, Arcadia, Libertine, and see it for the play on words that it is. Again my take is its just meant for good fun. The owner seems like a card. Menu items citing John Candy Pizza and The Dude nachos don't strike me as pretentious. Just strikes me that the owner likes references.

As for getting some news and free media love yeah, sure, the owner could be interested in that.

The place is on 124st. An area where you could find a whole lot more pretense than in this pub.

Agreed that its not really a sports bar except maybe in odd menu names. Did they spell Pisani wrong?

ps Arcadia, the book, was a bestseller, and the play is considered one of the brilliant works of the famous Tom Stoppard and is loved worldwide with a huge following. (even put on at the Citadel Theatre) so yes, a large following that appeals to the masses. One has to read or see it to kind of get how it works. No particular math ability is required.

 

[shoop]

Read the edit. The quote is more focused on the latter theme I mention, if not the song derived from the theme. Also, to get the quote one would be familiar with such terms as Albion, Arcadia, Libertine, and see it for the play on words that it is. Again my take is its just meant for good fun. The owner seems like a card. Menu items citing John Candy Pizza and The Dude nachos don't strike me as pretentious. Just strikes me that the owner likes references.

As for getting some news and free media love yeah, sure, the owner could be interested in that.

Finally, the place is on 124st. An area where you could find more pretense than in this pub.

Agreed that its not really a sports bar except maybe in odd menu names. Did they spell Pisani wrong?

Pisain is tagalog for philosophy. Maybe another hipster dbag reference?

Meh, the owner gets a little free publicity. So bet it. I get it wouldn't strike you as pretentious, but I do find it odd that your seven post history is drawn to this thread. Coincidence or is there somehow a connection? Calling yourself a card would be pretty lame. Just sayin'

 

[Drivesaitl]

As to the theme of this thread I think its a sign of the times. We live in a present business world that divides the world up into nation of Coke and Pepsi proprietary rights. It wasn't always like this, and big business didn't always play by these rules.

Its a bit unfortunate it gets to this extent as well. Molson, HNIC, NHL, CFL are about as Iconic Canadian as Beavers and Canoes. Should one have to provide the inferior product (Molsons) in order to reference the above sporting product even casually? Think of the extent o this too. Oiler labels and copies and imitations are everywhere. Most kids draw them, paint them, us hard scrabble kids that couldn't afford jerseys would go play road hockey with self died T shirt or sweater Oiler jerseys. Would we have to worry about the lawyers now doing that? Indeed even the famous Roch Carrier "The Sweater", a classic piece of Canadiana and Canadian art and culture would now be illegal as it references a home made sweater. One where rights dues weren't paid. It also mentions leafs and Habs without rights holding permission.

A band like the Tragically Hip would have to edit lyrics in a lot of their songs if recorded and published today. How sad is that?

Should we avoid mentioning iconic terms entirely?

Some product names and labels move beyond just being products. They benefit from that exposure as well. Budweiser I suppose in the states. They get a lot of cross promotion and reference as well. When a guy like Neil Young is singing this bud is for you he's either referencing that or something else.. Just as an example. Molsons and Bud have been referenced and product placed in countless productions and art. Its more in the last 25yrs or so that the copyright usage has gotten this tight. That's both good and bad. Good for the copyrights, but less good for shared content and overall exposure.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Pisain is tagalog for philosophy. Maybe another hipster dbag reference?

Meh, the owner gets a little free publicity. So bet it. I get it wouldn't strike you as pretentious, but I do find it odd that your seven post history is drawn to this thread. Coincidence or is there somehow a connection? Calling yourself a card would be pretty lame. Just sayin'

heh, thanks, looks like I missed that reference. I should have googled it. Clearly the owner likes a ton of references. For the area he's in, and its an upperscale neighborhood, it seems he's in the right woods or ballpark. He should probably be referencing Kinsella though. Or he might now..

 

[Drivesaitl]

Another version of when trademark becomes common use vernacular.

Ketchup is a name used by Heinz. Technically everything else is Catsup. One sounds appealing, the other sounds like something the cat coughed up.

Now Heinz has gotten a bit silly as well (imo) and in some instances has engaged in suits over their product. Yet every restaurant establishment in the world refers to the tomato sauce as Ketchup whether it is or isn't. I've rarely if ever heard or seen the term Catsup used. Even in stores no name versions are often sold under the name Ketchup.

So if we accept the proprietary rights protection being so tight we live in a world of Catsup where such art as "The Sweater" and iconic Tragically Hips songs don't exist as is. Just as examples. It goes further than this. Any unauthorized sports book could be pulled from the shelves now. A book like Ken Dryden's "The Game" if written today, would have to refer to teams, players, with other names, which would completely destroy the authenticity of the work. Or team and players names would have to be omitted if expressed permission to use was not granted by all. Ultimately the book would become a work of fiction rather than the real article.

When a product name becomes Iconic I think its moved beyond standard naming rights. Its become part of the vernacular, part of the common use language. This is a complicated issue.

edit; The term Ketchup is not actually trademarked itself but several other trademarks of ketchup by Heinz exist. I'll leave the post stand as is in that it still explains a counter argument.

 

[Drivesaitl]

One other thought.

Ever try to watch a documentary on your favorite musical artist. The ones (nearly all) that come with no actual songs by the artist, they have to play background music throughout pretending to be similar to the artist. The word cheese, fromage immediately comes to mind. As does low rent elevator music. Almost all of them are awful and if for no other reason than perhaps over litigious use of rights holding. I can hear a song on a radio, can download it, can play it but if I'm not able to hear it on a program without expressed permission. Even though its all free exposure for the artists in question.

The biggest irony is that many of the acts benefitted enormously from such free use, even sometimes became famous due to extraneous use. But now its all nonstop copyright protection.

 

[Dorian2]

They don't have to reference the "preferred" brand. They just have to offer it.



Then Molson's would probably pull their product from that bar. They would have control of the price that their product is sold for.



Katz has nothing to do with this. Its Molson's, quite obviously.

The Oilers would be more than happy to have local establishments promoting their broadcasts at no cost to them.

Particularily to your second point......I'd think that Molson would pull it immediately if that happened. The name is tied directly to the price of a product. Molson would not let a bar try to sell it's product at some exorbitant rate just for the fact that no matter what the truth of the matter is, consumers would tie their name to over priced beer. Some posters are seemingly extremely naive or just ignorant to basic business practice

Hip cat says it perfectly. This quote from the Arcadia web site screams hipster dbag.



You can't make up stuff that's embarrassing.

Holy Cripes that's lame.

@Drivesaitl ...as someone who's been in the music business professionally for years now, I'll just say that your I do not agree with your last post in the slightest. You're basically talking about taking money out of my pocket with intellectual property rights involved here bro. Musicians of all levels put a shit load of hard work into their product. Not cool at all.

 

[Tom Collins]

One other thought.

Ever try to watch a documentary on your favorite musical artist. The ones (nearly all) that come with no actual songs by the artist, they have to play background music throughout pretending to be similar to the artist. The word cheese, fromage immediately comes to mind. As does low rent elevator music. Almost all of them are awful and if for no other reason than perhaps over litigious use of rights holding. I can hear a song on a radio, can download it, can play it but if I'm not able to hear it on a program without expressed permission. Even though its all free exposure for the artists in question.

The biggest irony is that many of the acts benefitted enormously from such free use, even sometimes became famous due to extraneous use. But now its all nonstop copyright protection.

A better soundtrack likely = more sales of the documentary, and chiefly amongst existing fans of the band. How is a band going to benefit from the "free exposure" such a documentary provides when the only ones buying it are doing so because they are already aware and fans of the band? All this does is put more money in the pockets of the filmmaker.

You hear a song on the radio because the company that owns the station you listen to secured the rights to air it. You download a song by paying for it (or illegally downloading it). Not sure why those examples are supposed to stand for why a filmmaker has to similarly secure the rights to any artist's work.

 

[Drivesaitl]

A better soundtrack likely = more sales of the documentary, and chiefly amongst existing fans of the band. How is a band going to benefit from the "free exposure" such a documentary provides when the only ones buying it are doing so because they are already aware and fans of the band? All this does is put more money in the pockets of the filmmaker.

You hear a song on the radio because the company that owns the station you listen to secured the rights to air it. You download a song by paying for it (or illegally downloading it). Not sure why those examples are supposed to stand for why a filmmaker has to similarly secure the rights to any artist's work.

Put it this way. Woodstock would be the biggest example of a rock documentary in history. Not all of the acts signed waivers for additional productions or corollary interest or were even willing to. This classic production would not have seen the light of day were it nor for more accepting times and less litigious times.

But further to my comment I find it a bit odd in the music industry which resolutely copies, adopts, plagiarizes, samples, lifts complete riffs if not songs from other artists. I find it interesting THAT industry is most involved in copy or unpermitted use litigation. its a bit of a double standard. Well, a huge one. Rock as we know it would not have occurred period had a lot of poor musicians not fully allowed their tracks to be plagiarized in the 50's, 60's 70's.

That's why I made the reference that the music industry and artists ironically are militant about rights infringement when they in effect owe their livelihood to it.

This is sort of OT, but within the topic of rights and infringement that the thread is about, just using comparable examples.

 

[Dorian2]

yeah...no.

 

[GodPucker]

our D throw up so many bad passes to the forwards.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hey Dorian, I didn't catch the edit on one of your previous posts. I certainly have nothing against musicians earning a living and its harder and harder these days. Just stressing that songwriting is largely a derivative process even if unconsciously and that riff that fits in so well is often something heard previously. Which is pretty much the history of popular music. Like Billy Corgan said you just start running out of chord progressions and things to play. That it just becomes derivative and copycat of even your own music after awhile.

Sorry in anycase. I love music, love most musicians. I'm sympathetic.

 

[joestevens29]

Just get a case of Molson and be done with. Odds are no one is going to buy it anyway, so it will last you longer than your bar will be open for anyway.

 

[Dorian2]

Hey Dorian, I didn't catch the edit on one of your previous posts. I certainly have nothing against musicians earning a living and its harder and harder these days. Just stressing that songwriting is largely a derivative process even if unconsciously and that riff that fits in so well is often something heard previously. Which is pretty much the history of popular music. Like Billy Corgan said you just start running out of chord progressions and things to play. That it just becomes derivative and copycat of even your own music after awhile.

Sorry in anycase. I love music, love most musicians. I'm sympathetic.

Naw...that's all good. I didn't want to walk down the rabbit hole that you've just explained here in this thread. Glad you have a good understanding about how artists at every level derive their tunes.....basically an experience thing. There ARE only 12 notes in music after all....we all know it's all been done before. Just different flavors is all.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

We need the Oilers to wake up asap and get Corona to sponsor the Oilers.